Curse

Not A Fifty Five · Nov 01, 2006, 01:33 AM // 01:33

so you'd rather they get beaten utter crap out of by the top guilds' normal teams? Its like either The Hulk vs bambi? or Godzilla vs bambi?

Helios Skyfire · Nov 01, 2006, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Yes. Yes I would. I play PvP for the 'vP' portion.

I'd rather not see it replaced with 'vE/P'.

Not A Fifty Five · Nov 01, 2006, 01:39 AM // 01:39

*shrug* Well I personally like it, because then I could test builds from guildwiki and if it works, give it a positive rating. I think a lot of people use it just for testing their build out honestly. If you try and suggest a flavor (new build) in HoH most of the time you cant find anyone to join cause they're all running builds everyone else has run.

Series · Nov 01, 2006, 01:39 AM // 01:39

I love how the "PvP is PvP because I'm fighting players, not AI" argument fails to mention:

-Ghostly Heroes
-The countless NPCs in Guild Battles
-Those guys who guard the bases in AB
-Pets
-Minions
-Henchmen

You've been fighting AI since square one.

Not A Fifty Five · Nov 01, 2006, 01:40 AM // 01:40

you forgot people with the IQ of a henchie

Helios Skyfire · Nov 01, 2006, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Yeah, but in the case of HA 6 Players + 1 Ghost is still 6/7 players.

1 Player + 3 Heros + 2 Henches + 1 Ghost is 1/7 Players.

As someone else put it, "Players directed PvP", rather than NPC assisted PvP...

looloo · Nov 01, 2006, 02:49 AM // 02:49

OMG.....now HA is a dead place....hardly ppl shout to recruit...guess u know why ...

........Anet please dont ruin the multiplayer environment in HA..it's really sad to see this

looloo · Nov 01, 2006, 02:52 AM // 02:52

tbh with ya...henchy and heroes AI's spike actually works better than players' in most cases...but that's not your team work ..it's all about NPC- assisted killling....which is not fair when some player which have no apparent pvp skills just get free kill. grrr....

Quid Pro Quo · Nov 01, 2006, 03:37 AM // 03:37

/burnpetition

More people wanting to limit gameplay.

If NOTHING else give this time. People are trying out this new feature. Let Nightfall have some time to cool down its still warm from the oven.

I say 2 weeks before a decision should be made on this.

Yunas Ele · Nov 01, 2006, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unkemptwolf

(most of the responses seem to be along the lines of "because it is!")

While there are some players who are complaining because they are losing to heroway, I think the vast majority of us dislike Heroes in HA not because we lose to it, because the fun factor is gone. Rolling through NPC teams is no where near as fun as fighting real players.

And honestly you make it seem like if you didn't start HAing at the begining of GW, then you have no chance. Sure, it was easier back then but there are many, many people who started late and still got high rank. And yes, many of them without using fame farming builds either. Everyone had to start somewhere...

Anyways, lets say you farm your way to r3 or higher with heroway? Then what are you going to do? Go back and play with the same people that you are complaining about?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not A Fifty Five

/notsigned

Personally I think HA is just a joke period. Nobody runs anything interesting. You go to halls and you find a)blood spike b)r-spike c)duals mite etc etc

So what? Heroes making this any worse? not really. All they do is take the place of random noob playing some build someone else made 5 months ago.

As stale as some of those builds can be, I can tell you I'd rather fight them than NPC bots... (except a running b-spike like O Azn O's that play running game for 20+ mins but thats a whole other story...) and I'm sure most HAers agree with me here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coocks

I just cant understand how come this thread only came out after NF was released and the NPC's AI was improved. What's going on ? Is the NPC's AI getting better then those iwayed tigers ? Oh noes

Reading through the posts might help. Majority of us are complaining not because we lost to Heroway, but because owning NPCs is no where near as fun as fighting real players... The reason this complaint came with NF release is because NF allows you to solo HA. 8v8 HA = need 3 other players to henchway. 6v6 HA = need 1 other player to henchway, henchway started become a bit of a problem here but still not that bad. Release of NF = Anyone can grab 3 heroes and 2 henchies and go, and thats about 75%+ of the teams you fight in HA atm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elena

ghostly heroe is ai aswell! omg get him out of ha i want real people lawls!

You're missing the point. Ghostly hero is only 1 unit in the battle. Heck, if it was like 3 heroes or henchies max on a team, I am sure most of us would be happy. But right now its 1 player and 5 NPCS (+ghostly so 6 NPCs). Its not fun owning AI. What my guildie said sums it up:
Me: I'm gonna go PvE now...
Guildie: Gonna play HA? Or work on your new paragon?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amity and Truth

It's the same reason why people whined about ViM, Iway, Spirit Spam, Dual Smite, AOE Smite, Healing Ball etc etc. They were beaten by it and as we all know, PVPers are superior human beings which just can't be beaten. Now just imagine the uproar in the minds of our wanna be gods and the few goddesses if something beat them.
Yep, the very reason for these whinethreads. Of course they'd never admit defeat against one of the above.

No, its not the same reason. I for one never whined about IWAY, Spirit Spam, etc. In fact I enjoyed thoes builds, especailly IWAY

But you see the problem here is not that we (well most of us that are complaining) can't beat Heroway, its that its ****ing boring to own AI. Playing against real players was what made HA fun, to me at least.

While I do see the validity in your point, since you're right the people that are complaining about heroway cuz they lose to it are probably the same ones who compalined about iway, spirit spam, etc. But thats only a small portion of the people complaining. The real complaint is described in the above paragraph.

Anyways,
/signed

Thom · Nov 01, 2006, 05:18 AM // 05:18

/signed
Heros PvP should be expanded, but it shouldn't replace HA.

looloo · Nov 01, 2006, 05:31 AM // 05:31

omg!!!! 9 out of 10 team in HA all heroway/henchyway....so much of what was said of IWAY etc, now this heroway is like 100 times worse .....Anet you guys should really look into this man....

Strid · Nov 01, 2006, 05:49 AM // 05:49

/signed

playing against hero isnt fair, they have superb "reflexes" and wont miss an interrupt, neither delay a spike and such

also its much more fun making a humanteam to fight against other humanteams than those NPC parties

anonymous · Nov 01, 2006, 05:57 AM // 05:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by conjurer

/signed

This just give chance to nonskilled 10 years old childrens to ruin ha, with playin like idiots on every single altar maps

Wouldn't the other team being an idiot give you an advantage?

Back on topic: if people would stop excluding because of rank you wouldn't see as much heros. Heros are also used because it is alot easier and faster than forming a group. I see some people complaining about getting ganked by 2 hero teams. What exactly is the difference between them doing that and humans doing that?

Ryuken Tamashi · Nov 01, 2006, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Well first of all, GW isn't becoming a SINGLE PLAYER GAME!!...the reason why people prefer heroes is because it's brand new. And brand new things are popular...Wait till it gets old, I bet many people will have less heros than now.

Anyway, back to the HA problem. Yeah I agree that heroes are way over powered in pvp, and I hate when some of them kill me..they are NPC'S!!!!! So yeah I'll

/sign

(so plz keep heroes out of HA and let them fight in heroes battle thank you

)

Betwixt · Nov 01, 2006, 07:12 AM // 07:12

/signed

Well, I don't really have all that much to say that hasn't really been said before tbh. Yunas Ele did a rather thorough job in explaining the various reasons why heroes are extremely detrimental to the quality of the games you will play in HA.

The reason heroes should be removed from HA is not really because they are overpowered but more because they simply arn't an enjoyable opponent to fight against. How often do you hear a hero say "Gl hf" or "gg"? How often do you get the playful comments you hear from actual players appearing in team chat? Or even the irrational messages of hate from a recently defeated opponent, which in my opinion are simply priceless. ;x

Isn't a victory more satisfying when achieved with a group of friends or simply a group of people you have just met? And isn't the victory even more sweet when it's a group of actual people you have outwitted and outplayed rather than an 'upgraded AI'.

This destruction of the 'social' and human aspect of HA is, in my opinion the most damaging effect the introduction of the hero system has had.

Oh and before you all start complaining about how difficult it is for an unranked to find a team who will let them in, I am r4 and it is still difficult for me to find a team. ;D I only began to explore the pvp aspect of GW rather recently and even working my way up to my lowly little r4 was a difficult experience but ultimately a rewarding one, which I achieved while making many new friends at the same time. ^^

Dark Saga · Nov 01, 2006, 07:35 AM // 07:35

/signed

looloo · Nov 01, 2006, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymous

I see some people complaining about getting ganked by 2 hero teams. What exactly is the difference between them doing that and humans doing that?

well..obviuosly human won't do that coz not everyone in the team will agree with this noobie, mindless and selfish act im sure...

Kry Onicle · Nov 01, 2006, 08:31 AM // 08:31

I pvp to play against other teams of real people. Not Player Vs AI. HA is a joke atm
/signed

C2K · Nov 01, 2006, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kry Onicle

I pvp to play against other teams of real people. Not Player Vs AI. HA is a joke atm
/signed

HA was always a joke.

Does everyone forget the "r3+ b-spike team forming. Must show title or boot"
messages that flood HA. or how about the "looking for r7+ trappers for IWAY" messages.

So, Heroes let those unranked players make their own team and let them do HA. The HA community has been an "elitist" group as it is ever since IWAY broke the ranking system. New players have alot of trouble breaking into HA because they don't have the title, which you get from doing HA. Perhaps they feel threatened now that anyone can form a team for HA, even if their rank is not high enough.

Then again, if 1 or 2 people with their heroes can micro better than the 6 people on your team, you probably weren't going to cap Halls anyway.

/Not Signed

There is still a player on that other team, and he's owning you. Hence, its PvP.

As for Heroes and henchmen making Guild Wars single-player, it has to do with either:
A. Those who are tired of being ridiculed for being a "noob"
or
B. Those who complain that they are tired of getting in a team of "noobs"