Curse

Dalimoor_Kalkire · Nov 11, 2006, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqstout

You have no room in this discussion. You are not even remotely close to a normal player.

Please don't litter the board with personal attacks on my character. Define "normal"...you can't. Who says I didn't work my tail off for what I have? Fin...

legion_rat · Nov 11, 2006, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalimoor_Kalkire

Now, if I look in my bank box, I see a little over 700k.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqstout

You have no room in this discussion. You are not even remotely close to a normal player.

why not? I have seen several players with this much or more. If you have 15k armor already, the weapons you want already, and most of the skills what else do you have to spend gold on. ooooor if someone has ebayed gold.

either way your own point isnt very valid. as DK said if you only have so many skill points 700k doesn't matter much.

~the "I got 5k" Rat~

Therlun · Nov 11, 2006, 06:07 PM // 18:07

"Working with the skills you have" gets you called noob for not having the correct skills and builds for every situation.

But of course EVERY player knows from his first minute of GW which skills he should get and which can wait...

Skillpoints prevent "learning the game" because in a world of counters with hundreds of skills and synergies a new player is limited to a small selection.

You dont turn into a pro by carefully "reading all the skill descriptions".
You get experience by playing with these skills.

LiamR · Nov 11, 2006, 06:11 PM // 18:11

/notsigned

Before you start a petition, think, why is this neccesary? Do we need this? Was it fine with out it? If the answers are No, then yes, don't post.

Seriously.

Sli Ander · Nov 11, 2006, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therlun

"Working with the skills you have" gets you called noob for not having the correct skills and builds for every situation.

But of course EVERY player knows from his first minute of GW which skills he should get and which can wait...

Skillpoints prevent "learning the game" because in a world of counters with hundreds of skills and synergies a new player is limited to a small selection.

You dont turn into a pro by carefully "reading all the skill descriptions".
You get experience by playing with these skills.

But do you become a pro by only playing with skills/builds everyone else uses?

I knew nothing of skills when I started playing, and because of skill points being limited I shied away from spending them on skills I was unsure of. Instead I learned how to use what I had until I could make an informed decision on what skills would be most useful to me.

Skill points allow a learning curve, so that new players aren't flooded with that "world of counters with HUNDREDS of skills and synergies". By limiting what we can get, not only do we learn a the basics well, but we learn what works best for us.

But that's just my two cents

sh4d0whunta · Nov 11, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praetor

Yeah, I lured you into a barbed trap stacked with a flame trap.
-.-

It's an point/argument trap.

There's a finite number of skill quests, and you have to buy the rest, especially for a secondary class. Since you played through the game normally, you didn't need to worry about skill points. However, it's likely your character doesn't have all the regular skills your original 2 classes. So, your character is limited to skill flexiblity by both skill pt count and cost, while canthan/elonian characters are flooded with skill points, so they're just limited by cost. Once any of the character types run out of skill quests, they have to buy the rest of their skills (assuming they want them all). With the info above, you should be able to tell who has an easier time obtaining skills.

in prohecies u get skills for ur secondary dont well i did anyways

BaconSoda · Nov 11, 2006, 07:31 PM // 19:31

OH! A flamewar! How fun!!!

With that said, I think this thread can be put to rest with an overall
/notsigned....

Let's give it a rest already.

derrtyboy69 · Nov 11, 2006, 07:34 PM // 19:34

I think any skill unlocked should be account wide, except for elites. If I spend the time and effort unlocking something, i want to be able to use it on any character, especially now that we have 8+ Character Slots. I can understand having to cap elites as an incentive to play through the game, but unlocking every skill is ridiculous. Right now many people have to grind and farm money and skill points to get skills on RP characters, yet Anet decided to put a huge hit on farming.

Hell, our heroes get any skill we’ve unlocked, even elites, and we get those when were level 1.

Its annoying unlocking every ele skill in the game during factions, then creating an ele in Nightfall and have to unlock every skill for him, when I’ve already done it.

So what i think:
When you make an RPG char, he should have all non-elite skills that you’ve unlocked available to him, except elites. At least give us skills as quest rewards in campaigns other than prophecies.

BahamutKaiser · Nov 11, 2006, 08:00 PM // 20:00

I truely think it is the opposite. Reguardless of which is easier to obtain, skill points, or gold, gold can be used for many other purposes. Skills should only cost skill points.

Either way, both costs are forms of grind, and as such a grind free game, should be reduced or replaced, the unnoticed fact is that even through we do not gain levels past 20, we still grind to get our skills, so in actuallity, we are gaining less from the time we end up grinding anyway instead of removing the grind.

It may be less important to grind since we don't level past 20, but grind we do for skill points and gold. Reguardless, even the OP openly admits that gaining skill points is far from difficult, gaining enough skill points to obtain an entire primary and secondary class of skills can be done without taking any additional time to grind. This is why I think the cost in Gold should be removed from skill points, or a replacement/alternative needs to be added to reduce the cost and difficulty of equiping your character with the neccessary skills to succeed.

You may not think grinding for skills is significant, but the proper skills are more important than 5 levels, so skills do matter, and a diversity of skills allows players to equip themselves properly for the occasion.

My Favorite alternative is adding a repeatable reward to all missions which counts as a credit toward skill aquisition, simular to comidations and totems.

I can understand the need to reduce grind, but it is obvious that gold is more precious than skill points, skill points can not be traded, cannot buy equipment, and cannot be shared between characters. Gold is more precious and neccessary than skill points for far more commodities, and gold is where the grind needs to be reduced.

Whether you agree with improving skill aquisition or not, GW has a reputation to keeping the game about experiencing the content and not preparing to play, and that is exactly what grind is. Spending unreasonable amounts of time grinding to obtain your characters full potential, whether it be levels, abilities, equipment or otherwise, is equally unacceptable, and should be reduceds to a minimal and brief task.

My best suggestion is PvE skill unlocking at some point in the game, whether it be some point of accension or beating the game, accessing all the non-elite skills from all your other characters should be allowed so time is not spent and respent to gain the same skills over and over again. If the only skills we really needed to obtain and pay for where brand new ones than the problem would be solved.

eloc_jcg · Nov 11, 2006, 08:08 PM // 20:08

/notsigned

If you are level one and you buy the skills they start at a starting price of 50gp and slowly work their way up in a ratio.

derrtyboy69 · Nov 11, 2006, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser

My best suggestion is PvE skill unlocking at some point in the game, whether it be some point of accension or beating the game, accessing all the non-elite skills from all your other characters should be allowed so time is not spent and respent to gain the same skills over and over again. If the only skills we really needed to obtain and pay for where brand new ones than the problem would be solved.

I tihnk that idea is great, people will ahve to work somewhat for getting the skills, but once they do they get them all, and wont have to grind forever.

The Hand Of Death · Nov 11, 2006, 09:52 PM // 21:52

I have both problems seem never to have enough money or skill points. To me though the skill point problem is a lot higher than the money one. Of course if I bring an old character from one of the other games, I have enough skill points to buy all the skills from the new campaign that I want. But quite the contrary when I make a new character, especially one that has skills in the last campaign. Sorry but no, skill points should remain that way.

Yawgmoth · Nov 12, 2006, 08:45 AM // 08:45

/not signed

No need to change what works very fine now. It's even too easy to get skill points now but they still serve a role. A newly started character can't just go and buy all the skills possible but needs to get them at a pace that can allow actually reading / testing them all.

freekedoutfish · Nov 12, 2006, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therlun

"Working with the skills you have" gets you called noob for not having the correct skills and builds for every situation.

But of course EVERY player knows from his first minute of GW which skills he should get and which can wait...

Skillpoints prevent "learning the game" because in a world of counters with hundreds of skills and synergies a new player is limited to a small selection.

You dont turn into a pro by carefully "reading all the skill descriptions".
You get experience by playing with these skills.

A person can create a perfectly good build without using elite skills.

Elite skills are extra powerfull skills which give you more power or control.

Thats why we NEED skill points to limit how easily we cap them.

Their also intended for those who have EARNED the skill points to spend on the sig of cap.

What is the point of having elite skills if we could all jsut walk out and cap them all easily?

freekedoutfish · Nov 12, 2006, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therlun

I dont understand why this suggestion gets so bad reactions.

If for all of you skillpoints are no problem at all and you always have enough of them, why have them in the game then?
Why are you so desperate to keep a feature that has no advantage at all, while it is a disadvantage to at least some (even if it is only a fraction of the players)?

Skillpoints add nothing to the game.

I read the same posts you did, and I got the impression that people, including me, were saying it IS hard to get skill points and you DO run out of them fast.

The OP was saying he wanted to scrap them because he had too many to play with and he didnt see the point in them because of that.

Which is hardly arquement to remove them.

As said about 3 times now, they exist to limit how easily you access elite skills. Enthesis on the ELITE part.

Kai Nui · Nov 12, 2006, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Skill Points are and have always been restrictively retarded. If the game is based on skill, why should anyone have to ever work for money or skill points? Skill points are anything but -- in fact I have Adept Skill Hunter (haven't played nightfall yet, soon enough maybe...) because as my only PVE character, my mesmer, I've farmed nearly every skill point outside of droknar's forge, not to mention I've paid for every mesmer, monk, necromancer, and a few other useful skills along with every elite so far. I still need to catch up and pay for every green mesmer item in factions which will drain my pocket into scraping for pennies. Honestly I just want flexability, yet we're constantly restricted.

Therlun · Nov 12, 2006, 04:52 PM // 16:52

I think we both read the same thread.
But we understand it differently.

The impression I got was that that half of the answers said:
"Not signed. Skill points are no problem to aquire. So we should leave a completely useless feature in the game for no reason whatsoever"

the other half said:
"not signed. skill points are there to limit skill progression.
Lets keep this tiresome grind in the game..."

I myself dont care for skillpoints, I have only one PvE char.
I just fail to understand the arguments most of the replies tried, or simply failed, to bring up.
I fail to see one advantage of skillpoints.
Yes they DO limit skill aquisition, especially in the beginning.
But what is the advantage of that?

And dont understand the Elite part.
To prevent a character aquiring an Elite, of which he can only have one in his bar no matter how many he has captured, ALL skills need to have this obstruction...

Dalimoor_Kalkire · Nov 12, 2006, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Eh, I like the system as it stands. I still have not run into blockades when it came to having skill points or gold. Chew up and spit out my comment or agree with me, that's where I stand.

BahamutKaiser · Nov 12, 2006, 07:08 PM // 19:08

How well you do is not a standard for everyone. For people who have no problem playing 20-40 hrs a week or only use one PvE character which they started in Tyria and never realized the difficulty of skill aquisition with new professions which do not get 80% of their skills from quests, you really have no say on how appropriate the game is for the general public.

GW success is built around its ease of access and play, it does not require monthly fees to maintain, and the game is built around gameplay and not grinding. Finishing what they started, some form of Skill Aquisition improvement should be added, and for those who play every profession and multiple secondaries to each, mass skill aquisition and some sort of PvE unlocking is a must, not just an interest. Accomidations are to be made for all, not just a fraction of interest, that is why there are handicap spaces in front of most commercial locations even though most of the customers are perfectly functional, and why there is a selection of milks in the dairy for different tastes. Good consumer marketing should aim for the majority, yet still accomidate the minority.

Your like is noted, and since you have absolutely no foundation to your claim, it means nothing. Singular Opinions mean very little, even Popular Opinions are devoid if they exclude truth and logic, so please spare us unbased claims, I am just as soon to respect the comment of an unknown drunk as a stranger over the interenet who makes a claim with no rationalization.

King_of_Eles · Nov 12, 2006, 08:13 PM // 20:13

/notsigned