Curse

Xapheus · Nov 21, 2006, 04:05 AM // 04:05

I was playing Random Arenas this afternoon...and nothing bothers me more than people who leave for no reason. If there's any possibility of a loss, people just map out (and the map out usually occurs when our team pulls ahead again.)

People leave when you revive them.

People leave if there's no monk in the party.

And if one person leaves, the rest leave or don't even try.

In a 4v3, 4v2, etc. match, the team with four people will win 99% of the time.

I have two solutions, one or both of which must be implemented as soon as possible. Both involve punishing the quitters (because the henchmen replacement idea won't cut down on the amount of quitters. There should be punishments.):

1. Transfer 100-1000 Gold/Faction from the quitter's account to each of the rest of the team's accounts. This can be incremental (increasing with each offense, like buying skills: 0, 50, 100, 500, etc.). This would maybe be the PvE solution.

2. Create an incremental time ban from PvP activies (for the entire account). The first time someone leaves before or during a match: no penalty. After the first time: x+5 minute increase. (5 minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes, etc.) or maybe a 2x increase (5 minutes, 10 minutes, 20 minutes, etc.). This is the PvP solution.

Incremental penalties are reset after a certain period of time (day?).

The only legal way to quit without incurring penalty should be with the "/resign" command. (ADDITION: And after a significant amount of time and if the team is outnumbered significantly) And of course, people should be able to leave after winning/losing a game (that time period between matches).

About people who get "Error 7'ed": That's why the penalties increase. You would still be punished, but hopefully you aren't disconnected often enough to get into the higher penalties.

EDIT: I just now noticed a similar thread, but this doesn't only apply to RA. It applies to all PvP and all PvE components.

Zui · Nov 21, 2006, 04:14 AM // 04:14

/not signed

Sorry, there are legitimate reasons for leaving in Random Arenas.

TBH, the ability for anyone to get Gladiator Points from RA sucks. Scrubs with no clue can attain and have attained high Gladiator ranks, just from farming RA. Remove Gladiator Points from Random Arenas, and you remove many reasons for quitting. You make players who actualy played in organised teams against players who had half a clue happier, too. Downside? Bad players complain because they can't get Gladiator titles anymore.

Xapheus · Nov 21, 2006, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

Sorry, there are legitimate reasons for leaving in Random Arenas..

What would these be? Why even begin to join a game if you're just going to leave it? It benefits nobody and having no punishment makes no sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

TBH, the ability for anyone to get Gladiator Points from RA sucks. Scrubs with no clue can attain and have attained high Gladiator ranks, just from farming RA. Remove Gladiator Points from Random Arenas, and you remove many reasons for quitting. You make players who actualy played in organised teams against players who had half a clue happier, too. Downside? Bad players complain because they can't get Gladiator titles anymore

Unfortunately, getting Gladiator titles in Random arena not only requires skill, it requires the additional factor of getting lucky enough to not get stuck on a team with a loser who will just leave. Just because someone plays RA doesn't make them a bad player. Getting 10 wins in a row takes skill even if it is against random teams.

But this is aside the point from RA in general. This is for all modes of PvP and even PvE.

EDIT: Are you also saying that because, in your eyes, Random Arenas aren't "worthy" for whatever reason, the people playing in them don't deserve justice?

BrotherGilburt · Nov 21, 2006, 04:50 AM // 04:50

No.... /notsigned

Ever here of error 7's, power outs, emergency situations, etc. Theres your legitimate reason's. I've seen other threads like this. It just won't be added. Theres no way. If you start punishing people for "leaveing" PvP they will get annoyed with Anet and annoyed at the game itself. The problem with this kind of thing is you never know if its on purpose or accidental....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xapheus

1. Transfer 100-1000 Gold/Faction from the quitter's account to each of the rest of the team's accounts. This can be incremental (increasing with each offense, like buying skills: 0, 50, 100, 500, etc.). This would maybe be the PvE solution.

2. Create an incremental time ban from PvP activies (for the entire account). The first time someone leaves before or during a match: no penalty. After the first time: x+5 minute increase. (5 minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes, etc.) or maybe a 2x increase (5 minutes, 10 minutes, 20 minutes, etc.). This is the PvP solution.

These would be ridiculus. First one would almost be like stealing(ALMOST). Second one is not good either. Also because there are no rules of any kind stating "you can't leave PvP match's", suddenly punishing people for it is not logical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xapheus

About people who get "Error 7'ed": That's why the penalties increase. You would still be punished, but hopefully you aren't disconnected often enough to get into the higher penalties.

Why it won't be implimented. Anet should(and will) not add something that punish's everyone(accidental or on purpose)...... You can't punish people for Error 7's.

EDIT: And as Xiao1985 said below me, there is also the problem of "stalmates".

Brother Gilburt

xiao1985 · Nov 21, 2006, 04:53 AM // 04:53

/not signed...

has being suggested before, and personally, i WOULD map out, if i was teamed with 3 other monks and i am a monk... you COULD stay and waste 20 minutes on a draw match (which by the way, happened and was EXTREMELY boring) when you see ppl map out, you could map out too... it's called random for a reason

Xapheus · Nov 21, 2006, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrotherGilburt

Ever here of error 7's, power outs, emergency situations, etc.

Yes, I've heard of those. That's why the punishment is stacked, and then reset after a period of time (such as a day or something). The first time the "disconnect" happens, there is NO penalty. That would account for the daily "emergency situation." The second time it happens, you only lose 5 minutes. If your power goes out, by the time it's running and the computer is restarted, it's been five minutes.

Emergency situations probably require someone to be away from the game for longer than 5 minutes too.

And, if my some magical occurence that you get an error 7, a power out, an emergency, and something from the etc. pile all in the same day, you'd only lose half an hour of PvP time, which you are likely spending dealing with the situation that made you leave the match in the first place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xiao1985

you COULD stay and waste 20 minutes on a draw match (which by the way, happened and was EXTREMELY boring) when you see ppl map out, you could map out too...

Alright, say after...7-10 minutes the penalty is lifted? Also if your team has 50-75% of the members as the other team, then it would be lifted? Would that fix things?

Thallandor · Nov 21, 2006, 06:45 AM // 06:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xapheus

1. Transfer 100-1000 Gold/Faction from the quitter's account to each of the rest of the team's accounts. This can be incremental (increasing with each offense, like buying skills: 0, 50, 100, 500, etc.). This would maybe be the PvE solution.

Such a system actually exist on another game platform namely Gunbound. And it still happens alot there not because players want to grief each other when infact everyone is keen on playing but rather from Lag quits and they are punished for it.

Not A Fifty Five · Nov 21, 2006, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Theres an identical thread here that is either on the front or second page, use search ^^. Damn I wanna be an admin so I can close repeated thread lol. Anyways, consider it closed if you obey the rules

Zui · Nov 21, 2006, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xapheus

What would these be? Why even begin to join a game if you're just going to leave it? It benefits nobody and having no punishment makes no sense.

1. Horrible teammates. Yes, there are alot of bad players in Random Arenas. See 3 players on your team who will do no damage, but take forever to die? Not in the mood for a few 15 minute + games?

2. Sub level 20 teammates. More of a subcategory of number one, but...

3. Horrible team. Not with just horrible players in it, but a team with a Defensive rit, and 3 healing/protection Monks, for exmaple. Want to win every match because the opposition is forced into quitting because you can't win, and they can't win either?

4. Going to form an organised group for somthing else.

5. Getting harrased by someone in your team.

Leaving benefits you. A Warrior/Monk with Gladiator's Defense and 7 other self defense skills does not benefit you, or anyone else. People play Random Arenas to have fun. Being stuck with very bad teams, for whatever reason, is not fun at all for many players. Being stuck with a team that can't win matches in any timely manner is also not fun for many players.

So, I should be punished because last time I had a level 14 on my team I quit, and hit the Enter Battle button again? I think the level 14 that entered should be punished in some fashion for entering, after all he's runing MY gameplay, and you want to punish me for ruining his!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xapheus

Unfortunately, getting Gladiator titles in Random arena not only requires skill, it requires the additional factor of getting lucky enough to not get stuck on a team with a loser who will just leave. Just because someone plays RA doesn't make them a bad player. Getting 10 wins in a row takes skill even if it is against random teams.

That is an absolute fabrication. How does it require skill to win in Random Arenas? I've gotten Gladiator points in Randoms with AFK players the whole way there, sub-level 20s, and Ranger/Elementalists spamming Flare... Did they have leet afk skills? Was the C+Spacebar flare spammer good at the game? I think not.

Say, what about sync entering? Does that take Skill? 3... 2... 1... Enter? *clicks button* Damn, that was hard. You know, even people who sync enter are pretty horrible. I faced a guild who enter spiked 3 players last night in Random Arenas. I've seen the same guild get 4 people on a team. I've seen others do it too. Hell, you don't even need voice chat to sync enter, it can be done via Guild Chat, Alliance Chat, or Whisper. Or even All chat for that matter...

Hmm, you already recognise that some players RQ teams that are poor in hopes of getting a Gladiator Point(one of many reasons). Are they skilled because they can find a team to carry them to 10 wins?

You're right that just because someone plays RA that they're not a horrible player. Many very good players play RA sometimes. However, your average Random Arenas player is a horrible player. Some can actually improve, and are new at Guild Wars. Alot(and by alot I mean the overwhelming majority) are simply lifelong scrubs who are unable to improve because they simply refuse to, and are still running W/Mos with 8 stances even though they've had the game for over 17 months.

Skill is a factor in Random Arenas, sure. But the fact remains that almost everyone there has none, and aren't even running good builds. It turns into which poor player can run a build that pwns other poor players better. Then you have fairly descent players, who are playing because of boredom and if you get one, or even two of them on a team you're guarnteed 10 wins. Even if your other two players are W/Mos with 0 swordsmanship running Dolyak Signet and telling the other team that they're noobs because they kite.

Let's face it, getting Gladiator Points from Random Arenas requries little to no skill. Skill helps, but you honestly do not need an ounce of it to get one. I've seen several players with Gladiator 3+ in Team Arenas that have gotten it all from Random Arenas. They suck. Badly. Infact about a week ago I pugged a guy with Gladiator 4, which is somthing I rarely do(desperation FTL). He had a descent bar, and a descent Gladaitor Rank to go with it... Turns out he did not kite, and he used his antimelee skills on their casters. He admitted to getting all the points except two by sync entering Random Arenas after we lost, after which I kicked him. I was simply going to kick him anyway, but I was honestly puzzled by how he got Glad 4 and wanted to know...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xapheus

But this is aside the point from RA in general. This is for all modes of PvP and even PvE.

...

Everywhere except Alliance Battles, Fort Aspenwood, and Random Arenas you get to pick your entire team. Those three areas are random. Fort Aspenwood and Alliance Battles are all but dead, and aren't even honestly PvP content as far as most PvPers are concerned.

As far as I am concerned, if you allow a player prone to ragequitting into your group, it is your fault. Either way, would you rather have a player that quit out on you, leaving you one man down, or have a player who won't quit out on you because they don't want to suffer, and instead get your party killed so they can safely leave your group? I'd rather have the guy who ragequits personaly. Then again, I'd rather use friends/guildies and not have anyone ragequit in the first place.

So, this brings us back to Random modes of play, as they have the biggest problem with players leaving/leeching. They're also the only modes of play whree you can't control your team, unless of course you cheat and sync enter. You can't really fix Fort Aspenwood, or Alliance Battles at this point, nor would ANET ever do such a thing.

Random Arenas, though, can and should be fixed. No Gladiator points mean the Gladiator title actualy has a bit more value. It means less people sync enter. It means less people quit to find better groups. Obviously, you can not stop people leaving due to degenerate teams or horrible players, I don't care if you made it so after I raged once I couldn't re-enter Random Arenas for six months, I'd still rage. It's somthing that simply goes along with the random gametype. You can't expect a random gametype filled with absolutly horrible players to be anywhere close to serious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xapheus

EDIT: Are you also saying that because, in your eyes, Random Arenas aren't "worthy" for whatever reason, the people playing in them don't deserve justice?

Random Arenas is not a serious PvP gametype, for a reason that's clearly stated in the name, it's random. It is a casual PvP gametype where people go to goof off, or do whatever, as long as they're passing some time and having fun. Honestly, less people would rage due to horrible players if those players stopped sucking at the game. Perhaps we should punish idiots for being unable to learn or adapt? Perhaps we should punish the same fools for entering with sub-level 20s over and over again? They are after all causing alot of the leaving. They're simply not much fun to play with. There are two sides to every issue, and because both sides on this one are have valid points, and becausethe gametype is flawed and non-serious in nature(the reason there's even a debate in the first place) who really cares?

Mike_version2 · Nov 21, 2006, 07:55 AM // 07:55

/not signed

awelcomecomatose · Nov 21, 2006, 11:01 AM // 11:01

though I typically dont err 7 at all. There have been times when I've err 7'd 8 time in one night. In this system I would be punished for that.

-Old 3FL- · Nov 21, 2006, 11:08 AM // 11:08

/notsigned

The Silver Star · Nov 21, 2006, 12:03 PM // 12:03

/notsigned

For example you may have been in RA for about 20 wins and you might have a life and have to go out/do something else. This is just an example but random arenas are indeed random.

dgb · Nov 21, 2006, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Not signed. I honestly can't be bothered monking for people who suck at the game.

Redfeather1975 · Nov 21, 2006, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Why don't they just make 2 RA venues.
One for the people who want gladiator points, faction or if they haven't unlocked TA and one for those who just like random PVPing to have fun.
Myself and I'm sure a lot of people just go to RA for a nice break and to have some fun. 1 person quitting is a bummer, but we still continue. More than 1 person quitting is just annoying.

Orange Milk · Nov 21, 2006, 02:06 PM // 14:06

I honestly Never rage quit, I go to RA for three reasons, Farm Balt faction, test builds I unlock with said faction, kill time.

Many a time I've been 4vs1 due to quiters and I don't get pissed, I used to, but who really cares, "OH No I just lost 30 secs of my life losing an RA battle because someone rage quit."

Fact is RA is not a serious place, and it should not be taken seriously.

OP If you really have such a big problem with these issues in RA (which will NEVER go away) then move to TA and stay there. RA is what it is and always will be.

On a side note, I had 9 in a row flawless about 2 weeks ago and err 007 at the start of the 10th match, accourding to you I would be punished for that, because as EVERYONE knows EVERYONE leaves on match 10 right?

Series · Nov 21, 2006, 04:41 PM // 16:41

How about, if someone quits, the next person to press the "Enter Battle" button replaces him? No punishment, but you get a replacement for the quitter.

MithranArkanere · Nov 21, 2006, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Hm... some missions do not star until you leave certain area.

Make an 'appearing' circle and make another come if someone leaves, while the counter is still on or if no one in any side steps out of the circle.

Not A Fifty Five · Nov 21, 2006, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Series

How about, if someone quits, the next person to press the "Enter Battle" button replaces him? No punishment, but you get a replacement for the quitter.

Unfortunately, that cannot happen. E.g. dead guy or near dead guy rages. New guy comes in with full hp/energy.

TadaceAce · Nov 21, 2006, 07:02 PM // 19:02

The people that create these threads are the wammos who cast mending and live vicariously on themselves and wonder why people leave.