Curse

Chris616263 · Nov 21, 2006, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Yeah... I'm sure this has been addressed several billion times but your search function is broken and I'm not paging through all this garbage just to find a thread.

Caster enemies that move fast (like avicarans) do not break aggro. They're so determined that even though I brought heroes to flag behind me to draw their attention; after they kill them they go straight for me, well out of their aggro range and far from their original spawn area.

I'm sick and tired of being hounded by damn creatures I cant escape, it makes the IDS run impossible; how am I supposed to get the damn Icy Dragon Swords you put in the damn game if I can't get to the damn cave? Fix the damn bug!

The argument "maybe you should do it the right way and fight your way there" isn't going to fly either because nobody with half a brain does that.

=HT=Ingram · Nov 21, 2006, 03:05 PM // 15:05

wait a min, Why don't you just go in a group so you are not the only one getting agro? Or have the heroes do the pulling for you??? anyways... I'm sorry your having such a hard time... (with a little bit of sarcasm there) but part of the reason they tweaked stuff like that was to make it so people would NOT be solo farming and to encourage more groups going for such activities. After all the more realistic it becomes the more challenging it is and the more fun it is. IMO at least. I mean come on if your playing other players and you attack at a large range are then not normally waiting for you to do it again or running around looking for you when you run away? Of course they are... SO its only natural the Game AI evolves as the game players find the glitches in the system and try to exploit them. Which you guys were with the IDS farming from the very beginning...

lyra_song · Nov 21, 2006, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

Fixed for simplicity.

as immature as Chris' post is, yours is just as bad.

Listen carefully:

THIS AGGRO BUG IS VERY VERY OLD

its been in the game since Prophecies.

Before the AOE nerf. Before the new AI changes.

THIS AGGRO BUG PRECEDES THOSE

The only thing is now, since the new AI is more aggressive and "smarter", when the aggro bug kicks in, all hell breaks loose.

Thanks to the new AI, the aggro bug is now deadlier and more annoying than ever

-------------------
How things are supposed to work (Pre AOE nerf, Pre AI changes)

1) Party enters a monster's patrol area.
2) Party aggros monsters and fights them.
3) Some party members die.
4) Remaining party members run like hell and heal.
5) Remaining monsters loose aggro after a certain distance and return to their patrol area.
6) Remaining party members sneak in and res their dead teammates, and re-engage the enemy.

Thats how it should be.

The bug happens at step 5)

Heres how it used to works.

5a) Remaining monsters break aggro, but do not return to their patrol (usually this is because of bad pathing). They remain where you last left them.
6a) Party comes within mini-radar and the monsters will re-engage. They resume aggro even before you enter aggro circle range.
THIS IS THE BUG

Thanks to the new AI, step 6a is enhanced.

They will seek you from ACROSS THE MAP. They dont lose aggro even over the long long long distances. They dont return to their patrol, they'll hunt you to your res shrine.

Previously when they changed the AI, the casters will not break aggro since they are in the middle of casting a spell on you. If they finished casting. They usually turn around and run back.

These guys follow you. Then they do NOTHING. THey stand there. I dance and they do nothing.

MithranArkanere · Nov 21, 2006, 03:25 PM // 15:25

The problems is that they do not lose selected enemies when you are fram for them.

If you select a target, and go far from it, the selected target panel will dissappear like you have nothing selected.
But it will appear if you go back there without selecting anything else.
Just make them lose target when your are far away from them.

That happens in many areas, not only in Mineral Springs. With Jade Brotherhood in Bukdek Byway, most of Abaddon demon hordes...
It seems the more they are, the most probable is that they keep you selected even if you go out of their radar range.

Chris616263 uses a bad way and put this in a bad place.
This is a bug, not a suggestion. And should be stated seriously, not whining.

Tagon · Nov 21, 2006, 04:34 PM // 16:34

I didn't know that GWG could fix any bugs. But I am not so sure I would call it a bug myself. Yea the mobs are a little more aggresive and yea it makes it a little harder, but it can be managed if you think fast. It is just a programed AI and with a little work you can use it to your advantage. I am sorry you can not get you icy dragon sword easily anymore, but you can get it if you are willing to work for it. Which is the way it should be anyway.

Anarion Silverhand · Nov 21, 2006, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Deleted a few posts - Keep this thread on track, please.

I'm going to leave this open for now as it adresses a relevant problem in the game.

-Anarion

Chris616263 · Nov 22, 2006, 02:33 AM // 02:33

I used to pull off IDS runs twice a week flawlessly with the exception of Tasca's Demise; specifically the end of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

as immature as Chris' post is

Nothing immature about telling people to fix a problem that has only compounded and gotten worse over time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

These guys follow you. Then they do NOTHING. THey stand there. I dance and they do nothing.

They don't do "nothing". I run off, let them pop off a spell like I used to before, and they re-aggro. The only way to get them off is to kill them or die; and both sound incredibly boring and wasteful of my time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tagon

I didn't know that GWG could fix any bugs. But I am not so sure I would call it a bug myself. Yea the mobs are a little more aggresive and yea it makes it a little harder, but it can be managed if you think fast. It is just a programed AI and with a little work you can use it to your advantage. I am sorry you can not get you icy dragon sword easily anymore, but you can get it if you are willing to work for it. Which is the way it should be anyway.

What exactly is there to "think fast" about? They chase me, I pop off sprint, sprint wears off, they're still chasing me. Not sure whats supposed to be going through my mind except "GET OFF MY ASS YOU DAMN CHICKENS". Do you just say things like this because you have no real useful information to begin with?

AND - No, it's not the way it should be. I should be able to do something without getting pissed at a video game. The changes that have been implemented and the relative difficulty of some of the Nightfall missions make this game a chore. I have beaten Nightfall, and I do not look forward to helping guildies beat it.

Before all these changes, I used to play Guild Wars to relax and have fun. Now I play it to get angry and make stupid posts on s forum about incredibly stupid and trivial video game crap? Not right at all. I used to tell people GW was for the "casual" gamer; which is obviously not the case anymore.

--
But hey, if ANet wants to destroy easy ways to make money/enjoy the game, thats fine with me. They either need to boost quest rewards or do something to keep my pockets full. Telling me to "save my money" won't magically make me stop and "realize the error of my ways". Money is meant to be spent; I can't spend any if I don't have any!

I spent $150 on this game. I damn well better have things my way if they wanna get my cash for the next game.

Carth` · Nov 22, 2006, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

5a) Remaining monsters break aggro, but do not return to their patrol (usually this is because of bad pathing). They remain where you last left them.
6a) Party comes within mini-radar and the monsters will re-engage. They resume aggro even before you enter aggro circle range.
THIS IS THE BUG

I'm pretty sure there was no such bug.

The problem was patrols follow you for further than normal stationary mobs, and when you break aggro they walk back very slowly. It can take them a long time before they are back to their patrol, and everybody tries to return too soon. You don't need them in your aggro bubble for them to run back to you.

In this situation, just wait 5 mins. When you come back the aggro is back to normal. I can Rebirth, or sneak past, or whatever. The mob has returned to what it was doing before I attacked.

5 mins seems like a long time in game, and seeing that the mob is gone often makes people think they can return safely. Crossing the line where aggro was broken before they are back on their patrol makes them run back to you.

This was how it used to be before any AI updates, I don't know how it is now, which is what this thread complains about.

Trakata · Nov 22, 2006, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Chris, I agree with your gripes, if not your abrasive tone. That said, ANet hasn't "fixed" this, if it is indeed broken, and you won't get sympathy from them or a lot of other people. There's nothing anyone here can do about it.

I'm honestly surprised this isn't closed for your abundance of flaming.

Redfeather1975 · Nov 22, 2006, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Just a suggestion to the OP. Take a step back and see how you are coming across. This is not the way to get something addressed or even properly discussed.

Thallandor · Nov 22, 2006, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris616263

What exactly is there to "think fast" about? They chase me, I pop off sprint, sprint wears off, they're still chasing me. Not sure whats supposed to be going through my mind except "GET OFF MY ASS YOU DAMN CHICKENS". Do you just say things like this because you have no real useful information to begin with?

AND - No, it's not the way it should be. I should be able to do something without getting pissed at a video game. The changes that have been implemented and the relative difficulty of some of the Nightfall missions make this game a chore. I have beaten Nightfall, and I do not look forward to helping guildies beat it.

Before all these changes, I used to play Guild Wars to relax and have fun. Now I play it to get angry and make stupid posts on s forum about incredibly stupid and trivial video game crap? Not right at all. I used to tell people GW was for the "casual" gamer; which is obviously not the case anymore.

--
But hey, if ANet wants to destroy easy ways to make money/enjoy the game, thats fine with me. They either need to boost quest rewards or do something to keep my pockets full. Telling me to "save my money" won't magically make me stop and "realize the error of my ways". Money is meant to be spent; I can't spend any if I don't have any!

I spent $150 on this game. I damn well better have things my way if they wanna get my cash for the next game.

Reading this gave me a smile, i like the way the OP put his views in perspective but of course i dont agree with everything he has said.

But the main point i think i have also expressed at one time or another remains, playing a game should have never lead to frustration.

Even if a game is simple and easy to play and lacks challenge, players will still buy and play it if it's fun or it allows them to express themselves creatively. By making a game far too "challenging" often only means isolating the population of gamers to cater to certain interest groups, take FPS or RTS for example.

Of course many would agrue making things too easy would make things more boring over time. The balance of frustration vs boredom will have to be weighted carefully if not Anet will just be killing their own game.

Trakata · Nov 22, 2006, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thallandor

Reading this gave me a smile, i like the way the OP put his views in perspective but of course i dont agree with everything he has said.

But the main point i think i have expressed at one time or another remains, playing a game should have never lead to frustration.

Even if a game is simple and easy to play and lacks challenge, players will still buy and play it if it's fun or if they express themselves creatively. By making a game "challenging" often only means isolating the population of gamers to cater to or build certain interest groups.
Of course many would agrue making things too easy would make things more boring over time. The balance of frustration vs boredom will have to be weighted carefully if not Anet will just be killing their own game.

Very well put, Thallandor. As I said, I agree with the OP and yourself, and can understand his frustration. I just believe the thread is lucky it's not shut down yet because of the rampant flames going on.

I had an experience with this, at least somewhat similar I believe. Just a few hours ago I went to craft materials at the crafter outside Droknar's. I run through with my warrior, simply because it's not worth the effort to hench through the Avicara just for some crafting materials. I ran through some Avicara groups, and the Wises kept following me. They followed me all the way to the crafter, keeping pace with speed buffs, and degened me the whole time. Now, obviously, in this instance it's not more than a nuisance, but it just doesn't make sense. Why are the casters, the softest targets this game has to offer, chasing me down? Even if the Warriors/Rangers came after me, I could understand that, at least. That's logical. But casters? That's just non-sensical.

Undivine · Nov 22, 2006, 08:14 AM // 08:14

I believe this thread has a bit of merit to it. Not so much for the complaint that it's harder to do an IDS run, but more for the complaint that it's hard to shake aggro, and the complaint that there are so many expenses and not enough ways to make money.

But guys, I am putting you on warning: keep a respectful tone or this thread will be closed.

Alya · Nov 22, 2006, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Quote:

In this situation, just wait 5 mins. When you come back the aggro is back to normal. I can Rebirth, or sneak past, or whatever. The mob has returned to what it was doing before I attacked.

Unfortunately this method does not work. Casters keep locked on you even if you don't attack them.

Yesterday I was testing the aggroing patterns in Ice Floe again; I was running from THK to Grotto -- normally an easy, nice, clean run. Only running skills and self-defence, no attack skills, a fairly common running build. So what happened? Imps were chasing me all way and I managed to shake them off only at the very entrance to Grotto. After that they seemingly returned to their locations; at least I did not have any red dots on my radar when I reached the collector. Then I sat at the entrance for 20 min (twenty minutes), by clock, and as soon as I made a few steps toward the rez shrine, the whole mob rushed to me **across the radar**. I never wanded them, even once. I might post screenshots...

Frustrating? Very much so.

Amity and Truth · Nov 22, 2006, 12:30 PM // 12:30

We could imho use a properly formulated Thread about the AI. I guess no one is bashing it in a whole and even appreciate most changes, yet there are nonetheless bugs in it. The bugs however are drowned in the everlasting Flamewar about the AI. The discussions about the AI are currently all going nowhere, either filled with drama or stfu comments.