Curse

tomcruisejr · Nov 27, 2006, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

In the prime age of warrior power with eviscerate, everyone had some sort of melee protection (Distortion, Blinding Flash, Ineptitude, Wards, Guardian) to protect against the warrior because of the damage dishing abilities. In fact, the old metagame was 50% comprised of warrior shutdown skills before the skill balances. At that point elementalist were simply support characters without a good role.

Now with elementalists actually dealing damage with sandstorm and SF, warriors are the new black sheep simply because they are outdamaged by Eles and IAS thumpers.

the reason why there's always a class/skill that becomes useless coz of nerfs (duh). people complain about an "overpowered" skill/builds and force a.net to nerf it to near uselessness. what nails it to total uselessness are the chapters that introduce more counters to the nerfed skill/builds.

say soulbarbs spike. many whined bout it, a.net did balancing and nightfall came and and gave us lots of hex removals. another one is spirit spamming. now we got spiritual pain, unnatural signet, rit skills and there is no point of summoning spirits. and yea, a.net nerfed warriors (attack, armor wise) and now we got blinding surge, paragons, new elementalist skills that can tear the warrior down to pieces etc. and others.

about Rampage As One, just read Curse You's post and convince yourself that it is not what you think it is.

Thallandor · Nov 27, 2006, 07:17 AM // 07:17

not another one....

/not signed.

Curse You · Nov 27, 2006, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

Think about it. Mesmer contend with rangers in interrupting, now warriors in melee. One can say perhaps Anet overstepped the bounds of a ranger's capabilities by giving it skills that outpower other classes in fields that the other class should be more prevalent in. Having a wide array of jobs to choose from with one class is great, but when a single class overpowers others classes in so many different jobs you think about it and say "Why the hell should I play a warrior when a RaO thumper is BETTER."

I think Anet has to be more careful in defining the roles of the classes in future balances. Right now, warriors and rits are in the dark pvp wise because of the overbearing presence of rangers and paragons. People will naturally flock to the class that is more effecient. Its fine to have a class that is well rounded, hell rangers are a damn good class but maybe too good. Some of that presence maybe should go to other classes. I should say the same about paragons. Because of the overbearing presence of these two classes, people playing a warrior and rit are scratching their heads wondering just what the hell they are good for.

Just some food for thought.

Rangers have always been powerful at doing the job of another professions. Mostly due to Expertise (which they have reduced the effectiveness of), which enables them to spam another profession's skill, and thus use it to better effect.

Just look at Touch Rangers, Bunny Thumpers (pre-Nightfall), Shut-down Rangers, Ranger/Assassins, and even Ranger/Paragons.

Sniper Corps · Nov 27, 2006, 02:51 PM // 14:51

*Hears Anti Ranger Sentiment*
Hiss Hiss!!! No!!!

Anyway...
Remember when people said "If they Dont nerf Touch Rangers Right now im leaving and Blah Blah Blah" The Game didnt end there. New builds will appear and everything will eventually balance itself.

Guild Wars is in a Constant state of Rebalancing. If a Incredible Powerful Mesmer build appears, Sure enough a Necro will Come along and Smash it. Remember those Touch Ranger? Mesmers Used 1 skill (Crippling Anguish) and Smacked them.

For all we know, next month somebody will create the new "55" and of course these same people are gonna scream at the top of their lungs about it.

Gregslot · Nov 27, 2006, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Oh yea, this its all wts this game is about, bringing an ELITE skill just stop ONE of the MANY character possibilities.
Seriously, some ppl hero dont have any idea of wt pvp is.

We are not complaining because we cant beat it, or because we dont like to play with that class... we complain because IT IS overpowering, and because of that we dont like it.
This is just like the old IWAY issue, ppl like you said "its not overpowering, its just a good build". And THANK GOD we "forced a.net to nerf it to near uselessness". What was the point of using a monk to heal some of your party, if you could get a warrior that gets 12 poits of hp per second, attack 33% faster, and whenever hits STEALS over 15 health ?! That was an absurd!!! Still, most of the people (who played iway or had no notion of pvp) called us crazy or "n00bs".
Today we see Rangers playing as Warriors, Rangers playing as Assassins, Rangers playing as Necros, Rangers playing as Ritualists, Rangers playing as Paragons and Rangers playing as Rangers doing what Rangers should do (using bows and arrows). Now i ask you, people who say "n00b", whta is the point of making any other class if i can make a Ranger?

What is really pissing me off it that we have to explain all this at every post and you still wont accept the fact that you could be wrong.

Lordhelmos is right, unfotrunatelly. I dont see more Ritualists at Guild Battles or at Heroes Ascent. This is because Paragons can protect constantly AND give a massive ammount of energy to the monks/casters AND heal the whole party, when Ritualists can only protect for a limited time OR heal like any other monk.
So whats the point of using a Ritualist anyway?

Crom The Pale · Nov 27, 2006, 06:02 PM // 18:02

I've said it once and I'll probly have to say it a hundred more times.

There is never a good reason to nerf!

What we need are new skills to offset those that maybe unbalanced.

Never take away, always add to the whole!

jummeth · Nov 27, 2006, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Only Energizing needs a bit of a minor nerf. That skill is pretty much the reason why 2 Monk + 2 Para holdways are so powerful atm. Everything else is just decoration.

SF doesn't need a nerf. Its a very inflexible skill and offers the Ele no protection against against anything that would normally kill it.
Fireline has no, snares, blinds or wards. And since its elite and a spammed spell, it has many weaknesses to shutdown.

RaO: Fixed perfectly now... Kill the pet, a pet with 60 DP will die to about 2-3 hammer blows. Dead pet = Blackout for Ranger and no Speedbuff or IAS for 7 seconds + recharge.

Incoming: I think the effects are pretty much perfect the way it is. Its not broken. Like I said earlier, EF was the reason why Dual Para holding was a problem. This does help a lot. But then it is an elite.

Leadership: its very powerful, and makes the paragon almost invunerable to energy denial. Doesn't quite deserve that kind of a nerf though. Just make the energy return for non Para shouts a bit less, then its fixes.

LifeInfusion · Nov 27, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Rampage as One:
This skill has a 25 energy requirement.

Searing Flames:
Recharge needs to be toned down a bit to about 4- 5 seconds. Cast and damage are in line with PBAOE though.

Energizing Finale:
Should work only on others or lose energy if that person uses a shout/chant or adrenaline skill, since it basically buffs paragons to have caster-like energy regen. Right now there is no disadvantage to this other than the use of a skill slot. Perhaps it should be like battle rage, draining all adrenaline after it ends?

Incoming
This skill seems fine to me. It lasts a max of 7 seconds, and has a 20 second recharge. You need to time your use of this skill very well, otherwise the spikers can just call off the spike, wait 7 seconds, then spike.

Angelic Bond
It's an elite skill, it redirects damage. Recharge is extremly low, that's the problem. It cannot be maintained on a few people without killing yourself from the ARMOR IGNORING damage TRANSFER.

Leadership
Fine. Without it paragons are ranged warriors with no physical damage reduction.

Clawdius_Talonious · Nov 27, 2006, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Let Anet handle the balancing, don't freak out and start screaming for the nerf patrol when you encounter a new skill that you feel is over powered. I love how everyone says "Ele does too much damage" with Searing Flames. Elementalists were reduced to flag runners and warders, they had no damage aspect in the metagame (and the OP aknowledges this). Paragons are often the subject of much debate, they are utterly worthless without the right team build, a Paragon by themselves has very few builds that can sustain it in a one on one fight with anything other than a healing monk, in which case they can beat on each other until one err=7s if they have the right build. But you put a Paragon into a situation where you've got a good team minded player and a coordinated team and they become viable, quite useful, and indeed currently something that no serious HA team should be without. However llike I mentioned at the begining of my post, I think we should let Anet handle the balancing instead of hollaring about one particular skill, or a few skills you believe are over powered.

Either that or lets just nerf everything, like I think the radar is too far to shadowstep, how about one quarter of earshot (I.E. already on top of the target, roflmfao)

[/sarcasm]

Gregslot · Nov 27, 2006, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

I've said it once and I'll probly have to say it a hundred more times.

There is never a good reason to nerf!

What we need are new skills to offset those that maybe unbalanced.

Never take away, always add to the whole!

. . . ok ill take that as a joke...

Feathers · Nov 27, 2006, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Honestly I hate the fact things get nerfed. There is nothing more aggravating then watching a toon you build up get nerfed. I'm not much into the P vs P of the game simply because of the general attitudes one usually runs into in those games. Honestly let me spend my time working up my toons in the P vs E side of the game and then have them get spanked because it over balances some part of P vs P in the game !!!!!!!!

I guess if ANET wants to keeps up that to keep the P vs P players happy then perhaps the P vs E community needs to start screaming as well. If I continually have to adjust my P vs E playing because of what transpires in P vs P then the hell with ANET !!!!

Lordhelmos · Nov 27, 2006, 08:26 PM // 20:26

In another arguement against RaO, take into consideration that expertise cuts alot of the cost from Rampage as One. Rampage as One is a SKILL as is affected by high expertise. Come on now, you don't those rangers are really paying 25E for RaO do you? By itself, I think RaO is a good skill... I just have a problem with it enabling a Ranger to do a better job than a warrior.

The warrior, the CORE PRIMARY MELEE CLASS of guildwars doesn't even have an IAS to match a ranger skill? Are you kidding me? Warriors are sucking down damage with frenzy, which pretty much throws the meaning of "tank" out the window. They also suffer with long recharge IAS skills (Berzerker Stance), or skills that cut damage or movement like flurry or flail and are useless in PVP (I mean who is going to flail in heated pvp when the monk will just kite you anyway?).

tomcruisejr · Nov 28, 2006, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

In another arguement against RaO, take into consideration that expertise cuts alot of the cost from Rampage as One. Rampage as One is a SKILL as is affected by high expertise. Come on now, you don't those rangers are really paying 25E for RaO do you? By itself, I think RaO is a good skill... I just have a problem with it enabling a Ranger to do a better job than a warrior.

The warrior, the CORE PRIMARY MELEE CLASS of guildwars doesn't even have an IAS to match a ranger skill? Are you kidding me? Warriors are sucking down damage with frenzy, which pretty much throws the meaning of "tank" out the window. They also suffer with long recharge IAS skills (Berzerker Stance), or skills that cut damage or movement like flurry or flail and are useless in PVP (I mean who is going to flail in heated pvp when the monk will just kite you anyway?).

RaO cannot be exploited by other melee classes coz of 25 energy and it needs 2 more useless skill for it to become useful.

Flail is best used against knocked down targets. Burst of Aggression is good if you got energy based attacks. Berserker stance should be buffed imo.

The warrior got a good IAS before without any ffin drawbacks. Tiger's Fury and IWAY. 33% IAS baby now reduced to 25% thanks to whining.