Curse

twicky_kid · Nov 30, 2006, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etrik

To all the people saying Incoming is not imba:

Enduring Harmony + 2 Incoming Paragons. Did I mention Vocal was Sogolon + Enduring + Incoming? No? Okay.

Take 1s duration off of Incoming, up EF's cost and recharge to 10, give Leadership a tiny nerf, give Mysticism a boost [kinda like preview version].

That will only work on 1-2 targets because of EH long recharge. Incoming doesn't need to be changed. People need to learn how to time their attacks.

Its the same with Dark Escape. Hit the monk a few times so he activates then wait 15 seconds to go spike him.

Tired of this push button kill game players expect GW to be. Learn some tactics and strategy. Besides degen, life loss, and life steal ignore incoming. There isn't much difference between aegis and ward vs melee compared to incoming. Aegis can be removed. Ward can be interrupted. Incoming has a very short duration. Its a balanced skill no need to change it. 2nd classes can use aegis and ward vs melee w/o taking their elite spots OMG!!!! That's too powerful we need to nerf that too.

Flabber Babble · Nov 30, 2006, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Yup, Para's can shutdown any form of spike, and are able to make almost any team hold out for a long long time.

So, why not fit some into your build? Doesn't it make sense?

If it gets to the point when the majority of PvP players are running Paragons, and teams are effectively invincible, ANet will notice that as a problem.

I have my faith that they'll do what's best... so just wait it out and enjoy it.

twicky_kid · Nov 30, 2006, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flabber Babble

Yup, Para's can shutdown any form of spike, and are able to make almost any team hold out for a long long time.

So, why not fit some into your build? Doesn't it make sense?

If it gets to the point when the majority of PvP players are running Paragons, and teams are effectively invincible, ANet will notice that as a problem.

I have my faith that they'll do what's best... so just wait it out and enjoy it.

The teams are not invisible. They still take dmg. Its the energy battery paragon that allows the monk to heal through any sort of dmg to no end.

Obviously people still win vs paragons. Its just takes some tactics to do so. Their dmg reduction buffs are not the problem its how much energy they can give the monks per minute that is a problem.

Zinger314 · Nov 30, 2006, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flabber Babble

If it gets to the point when the majority of PvP players are running Paragons, and teams are effectively invincible, ANet will notice that as a problem.

Too late.

If the Holding Build (which uses 2x Paragon) goes against a Holding build, they fight it off with a dice roll.

HolyHawk · Nov 30, 2006, 06:22 AM // 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Issac

Paragons seem to be ONLY ment for being supporters. Thats all cool but they have a nice weapon and sheild and 80 armor like a warrior so they should make them more fighting.

Yeah, I get that idea too, but just because their direct dmg tree is single targeted. But keep in mind that paragons can rise conditional situations for offense, such as boosting the dmg of your next attack, make it to be a critical almost always, make them cause a deep wound, and so on. Rather than the motivation tree, I find command to be one of the most usefull trees, because you can get defensive and offensive skills, and really powerfull ones. Bladeturn refrain adds what, 40 armor vs slashing at high command, and go for the eyes rises critical rate up´to ~75%, for the entire party this last one.

Also, at first I agreed that some stuff like energizing finale should be more costy, but thinking again, it's also nice this way because it freed monk's elites from energy regain elites (I won't rise the issue about crippling inspiration line), and now they can explore their own class' elites, which are quite powerfull. If the problem was about energy, now paragon may be in charge of it, and the other classes may be able to explore themselves a little more.

As for incoming, it's an elite, and it can be disabled. Some spikes are powerfull enough to outdamage even with incoming on. I think the skill is just fine. Angelic Bond is just dull, since the dmg is halved amoung targets, there is no mitigation, just distribution. Life bond is a lot better in that way. "It's just a flesh wound" should have a minor recharge time imo, but it is not vastly used anyways.

Zinger314 · Dec 01, 2006, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Skill Updates:

* Aria of Zeal: Increased casting time to 2 seconds.
* Cyclone Axe: Modified so that it now requires an enemy target.
* Energizing Finale: Increased the Energy cost to 10 and reduced the amount of energy gained per shout or chant to 1.
* "Incoming!": Increased Energy cost to 10 and decreased duration to 1..5 seconds.
* Jagged Bones: Modified so that it may now be used on allied minions.
* Restful Breeze: Modified so that its behavior more accurately matches its description.
* Stand Your Ground: Increased energy cost to 10.
* "Watch Yourself!": Changed armor gain to 5..25, based on the Tactics attribute.

I win. And they even Nerfed "Watch Yourself!"

LifeInfusion · Dec 01, 2006, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Watch Yourself hasnt been nerfed for normal users with 11+ tactics, only for people who abuse it by spamming it for paragon energy with 0 tactics.

Darkobra · Dec 01, 2006, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Oooo Energizing Finale got a great adjustment. No more immortal monks.

Priest Of Sin · Dec 01, 2006, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Hmm... perhaps we need a few more skills put in that focus on removing shouts?

here's a few suggestions, just 'cause I feel like typing them out.

Remove Larynx, Warrior, 5 energy (str), nr
Skill. Lose all adrenaline. Strike for +5...20 damage. Target foe cannot use Shouts for 5...20 seconds.

Quiet On The Set!, Mesmer, 15 energy (fast casting), 10 second recharge.
Hex Spell. Target Foe cannot use Shouts for 20...30 seconds. If Quiet On The Set is removed prematurely, target foe and all adjacent foes take 20...100 damage and suffer from bleeding for 10 seconds.

Hold Thy Tongue!, Necromancer, 10 energy. 20 second recharge
If target foe is under the effects of a chant or shout, target foe and all foes under the effects of the same chant or shout suffer from -3...-9 health degeneration and the chants and shouts are removed.

From Ear To Ear, Assassin, 5 energy {E}, 4 second recharge
Off Hand Attack. If target foe is under the effects of a shout, the shout is removed, target foe is knocked down for 4 seconds, and target foe suffers from bleeding for 10 seconds.

Silencing Arrow, Ranger, 10 energy {E}, 4 second recharge.
Bow Attack. If this attack hits, it strikes for +10...40 damage and target foe loses all shouts.

I had fun with the names ^^

Thallandor · Dec 01, 2006, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

I win. And they even Nerfed "Watch Yourself!"

Yes you won, i bet you are proud of yourself now.

«Ripskin · Dec 01, 2006, 03:21 AM // 03:21

I think that you're mad becuase you didn't make one and everyone's owning you in the arenas.. lol j/k

I do think paragons are too powerful, especially because mine is like.. lvl 14 has 70 armor, a good spear and doing 100s on lvl 15s in PvE. I just think if it's ranged it needs to not be so... powerful.

I think paragons are a bit too strong, but maybe they should be. Maybe this game needs a stronger character to lead others.

And by the way, if you upped watch yourself, all my secret warrior farms would be ruined... It's a WARRIOR skill not a para. And you shouldn't change it because paras are abusing it.

twicky_kid · Dec 01, 2006, 03:47 AM // 03:47

Incoming nerf = stupid

Aria of Zeal = good change

EF = useless now

EF doesn't even pay for itself anymore. At least blood rit will transfer the energy from you to another player 1:1 ratio. This doesn't even match.

The change to watch yourself is going to hurt. That is stupid when you only need it to last for few seconds because of the adrenaline cost. Now you have to make a huge investment into tactics for this to be even worth using. Not a good change IMO. This hurts everyone using the skill not just paragons. If they had increased the edren cost while increasing the duration it would have stayed fine for wars but would have been junk for a paragon.

Oh well here comes the offensive paragons. Blazing finale and Crippling anthem are very powerful. No change to go for the eyes.

No more need for divert hexes. RC will most likely be a staple now.

B Ephekt · Dec 01, 2006, 04:06 AM // 04:06

The Incoming nerf seems to be a deterrent for chains that were achieved by placing it on someone with a Paragon secondary. I'm not sure how I feel about this one just yet, though.

The energizing nerf wasn't what I expected, but I wouldn't say it's useless just yet.

twicky_kid · Dec 01, 2006, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Ephekt

The Incoming nerf seems to be a deterrent for chains that were achieved by placing it on someone with a Paragon secondary. I'm not sure how I feel about this one just yet, though.

The energizing nerf wasn't what I expected, but I wouldn't say it's useless just yet.

So we should nerf Aegis and Ward vs melee since they are almost always used by 2nd classes? They don't even need a big attribute investment to make them work. They are also non elites.

For the elite status Incoming was justified even on 2nd classes. Now I don't consider it elite worthy. Not much else to choose from as a paragon 2nd.

Eclair · Dec 01, 2006, 05:14 AM // 05:14

I don't think Incoming has been nerfed to what it was originally meant to be, used for catching a spike, not perpetually having 50% damage reduction.

I don't quite get why they nerfed Energizing Finale so hard. Either up the mana cost to 10 or drop the energy gained, not both. Now it's utterly useless.

Qual · Dec 01, 2006, 05:20 AM // 05:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

That will only work on 1-2 targets because of EH long recharge. Incoming doesn't need to be changed. People need to learn how to time their attacks.

Its the same with Dark Escape. Hit the monk a few times so he activates then wait 15 seconds to go spike him.

Tired of this push button kill game players expect GW to be. Learn some tactics and strategy. Besides degen, life loss, and life steal ignore incoming. There isn't much difference between aegis and ward vs melee compared to incoming. Aegis can be removed. Ward can be interrupted. Incoming has a very short duration. Its a balanced skill no need to change it. 2nd classes can use aegis and ward vs melee w/o taking their elite spots OMG!!!! That's too powerful we need to nerf that too.

/signed !

Qual · Dec 01, 2006, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Bahh... What a stupid nerf... Well I guess it was coming.... Nothing can stay good in this game...

Etrik · Dec 01, 2006, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Excuse me? Nothing was good in PvP with imba Paragons running around. Thank the dear good lords in heavens for the rebalancing [I refuse to call it a nerf, because it was a rebalance]. Now maybe monks actually have to be good to win Halls [in reference to all the retarded monks I've seen in HA spamming HB and HP with EF on them].

Aera · Dec 01, 2006, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Next stop on the nerfbus: Searing Flames

Go Anet go!

Savio · Dec 01, 2006, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Discuss the updates in the updates threads. If you actually have a new suggestion, make a new thread. Closed.