Curse

Tiela · Dec 19, 2006, 01:53 PM // 13:53

I was wondering if this idea was allready proposed : I would find this really interesting to see damage counters for missions so that, at the end of a mission (or between two zones), you would be able to see the total ammount of damage done by each member of the group. This could be interesting for two reasons : I'd really like to see if my mesmer is hurting mobs in a better way than the Warrior,Ranger,Paragon of my guildies do... it could also be interesting to test some skills combination and see damage results.

What do you think ?

Helcaraxe · Dec 19, 2006, 02:31 PM // 14:31

been suggested already

stamenflicker · Dec 19, 2006, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiela

I was wondering if this idea was allready proposed : I would find this really interesting to see damage counters for missions so that, at the end of a mission (or between two zones), you would be able to see the total ammount of damage done by each member of the group. This could be interesting for two reasons : I'd really like to see if my mesmer is hurting mobs in a better way than the Warrior,Ranger,Paragon of my guildies do... it could also be interesting to test some skills combination and see damage results.

What do you think ?

I think an echo inept / clumsy / fragility mesmer way outdamages the other classes in pve. Not to mention the degen bonuses and damage mitigated through blind. Nevertheless we mesmers too often sit outside groups that are forming. I too would like to see if my thoughts are correct via a damage counter.

Antheus · Dec 19, 2006, 03:23 PM // 15:23

How about a prot monk, that negates 48,512,380 points of damage, compared to a healer that healed for 3642 points of damage.

What about interrupt ranger, that did nothing, except interrupted every single meteor shower. Given that the group was always tightly packed, that negated huge ammounts of damage. Especially, since warriors took sweet 6 minutes to kill that particular caster.

Who was more useful for the group?

This is a very good example of why "PUGs suck". There are more important concepts that sheer damage dealing. All such counters would achieve, is even enforce stereotypes about who the best damage dealer is. Even a semi-decent nuker will outdamage a warrior in PvE. While warrior will be running to the target, absorbing the hexes and conditions, only landing two hits with no adrenaline whatsoever, the nuker will sit in the back line, hapily spamming SF.

Who contributed more to the group? The tank, or the nuker?

It's not about dps... You need it, but it's everything else that determines the effectiveness. Reaching the cap on dps is easy.

Velvet Wing · Dec 19, 2006, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

How about a prot monk, that negates 48,512,380 points of damage, compared to a healer that healed for 3642 points of damage.

What about interrupt ranger, that did nothing, except interrupted every single meteor shower. Given that the group was always tightly packed, that negated huge ammounts of damage. Especially, since warriors took sweet 6 minutes to kill that particular caster.

Who was more useful for the group?

This is a very good example of why "PUGs suck". There are more important concepts that sheer damage dealing. All such counters would achieve, is even enforce stereotypes about who the best damage dealer is. Even a semi-decent nuker will outdamage a warrior in PvE. While warrior will be running to the target, absorbing the hexes and conditions, only landing two hits with no adrenaline whatsoever, the nuker will sit in the back line, hapily spamming SF.

Who contributed more to the group? The tank, or the nuker?

It's not about dps... You need it, but it's everything else that determines the effectiveness. Reaching the cap on dps is easy.

TOTALLY AGREE!! Like I made the comment myself

Tiela · Dec 19, 2006, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Antheus, I totaly agree with you but, I don't want a "who contributed more to the group" counter, I just want to see the total amount of damage per character at the end of a mission... I know that every single character is important, that's what I like in GW.

Vinraith · Dec 19, 2006, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Actually a number of tracking stats would be handy, even if they were only available to the individual player. Damage caused, damage, prevented, damage healed, skills/spells interrupted, etc etc etc. Just as a benchmark of the performance of one's build these could be enormously useful. I could see the system being abused horribly if those stats were available to everyone else, though.

Antheus · Dec 19, 2006, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiela

Antheus, I totaly agree with you but, I don't want a "who contributed more to the group" counter, I just want to see the total amount of damage per character at the end of a mission... I know that every single character is important, that's what I like in GW.

Numbers are generally perceived as bad. I often wish there were a combat log of sorts, since in many situations I simply don't know what happens, stuff just dies. Either me or them.

But then I remember cases like this. We're in a mission, barely holding on, and warrior suddenly stops. 5 seconds later "wheee I just did 156 damage with eviscerate."

?? So what...

End-game results would encourage incorrect behaviour. Already, the cookie cutter and holy trinity discrimination is bad. Adding numbers into the mix would be horrible.

The one and only thing that I would possibly allow, is that you are given (for yourself only), a short summary that cannot be accessed by others. Damage dealt, damage taken, damage negated (perhaps). Sort of /damagedealt and /damagetaken counters that reset each time you enter an instance. But nothing more.

But such stats must never be directly available to others, nor have any means of affecting gameplay. Numbers are simply bad, since pure damage is so irrelevant, that even hinting that damage matters is wrong. If anything, damage negation is what the game is about (see also DoA, 55, and other similar examples).

Perynne · Dec 19, 2006, 07:06 PM // 19:06

I totally agree with Antheus. Numbers are just numbers, and all it would lead to is wammos bickering about who's the king and PuGs not letting you in unless you're up to their standards in damage dealing (nevermind that you could be useful in other ways).

If stats like this were implemented, I'd want them to be non-accessible for others so that only you can see how you did. If you want to compare damages with others, you have the option of talking about it afterwards with them instead of being forcibly drawn into a fight about it. This would also keep the "omgz u n00b" spamming to the minimum, since they won't be able to boost their ego by seeing how much better they were damage-wise.

Tiela · Dec 20, 2006, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

Actually a number of tracking stats would be handy, even if they were only available to the individual player. Damage caused, damage, prevented, damage healed, skills/spells interrupted, etc etc etc. Just as a benchmark of the performance of one's build these could be enormously useful. I could see the system being abused horribly if those stats were available to everyone else, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

The one and only thing that I would possibly allow, is that you are given (for yourself only), a short summary that cannot be accessed by others. Damage dealt, damage taken, damage negated (perhaps). Sort of /damagedealt and /damagetaken counters that reset each time you enter an instance. But nothing more. But such stats must never be directly available to others, nor have any means of affecting gameplay.

I totally agree (again

) and it's really in this way that I see the thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

But then I remember cases like this. We're in a mission, barely holding on, and warrior suddenly stops. 5 seconds later "wheee I just did 156 damage with eviscerate."
?? So what...
End-game results would encourage incorrect behaviour. Already, the cookie cutter and holy trinity discrimination is bad. Adding numbers into the mix would be horrible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perynne

I totally agree with Antheus. Numbers are just numbers, and all it would lead to is wammos bickering about who's the king and PuGs not letting you in unless you're up to their standards in damage dealing (nevermind that you could be useful in other ways)

There will allways be brainless people saying that they are better than others. There will allways be stupid messages posted by egocentric people, this will never end... Those possible counters, if they are available for yourself only, shouldn't increase this problem I think.

And to be honest, I play 99% Guild Wars with my guildies so, I'm not really considering this problem...

shardfenix · Dec 20, 2006, 10:08 AM // 10:08

A similar system was suggested. The best one I've seen was one where it showed all your in game stats like space walked, damage given, damage taken, kills, average damage per skill, etc.
It would only take up server space to track that info, and would be worthless anyway.

Deleet · Dec 20, 2006, 02:22 PM // 14:22

While the idea maybe good, it will promote elitism in PUGs.

It would be a nice feature for GvG and maybe HA.