Curse

Kai Nui · Dec 29, 2006, 11:03 PM // 23:03

The Story (Skip this if you want, just how I came to this suggestion)
Alright, well recently I got to Elite Skill Hunter (5) after wasting much money, time, and effort. Alright whoo, doesn't stack to my Kind Of A Big Deal, but so what, I got this title because I thought it'd be worthwhile to be versatile. But sadly that's ot the case. After spending 290K I don't even use them because now I'm expected to buy skills to actually use? I can't even make a dervish or paragon build because the only 14 skills I have from dervish are elites. It feels so silly that Skill Hunter is such a worthless title in that aspect. So here's what I've got.

The Suggestion
There are four different campaigns of skills, Core, Proph, Fact, and Night. In each of these games there are seperate points that are similar: Character Creation, Ascension, and Last Mission Completed. So using these things, This is what I've come up with.

Your PVE character has only the skills it gets through buying, capping, etc (how it is now) after it's created.

After your character ascends it will get all of your account's skills for its primary profession of the campaign in which it's ascended in. So if your warrior became Ascended in Prohpecies it would be granted all the warrior prophecies skills that the person has unlocked. If that warrior was brought to factions and became Weh Nu So, it would have all the factions warrior skills unlocked. This would still leave the core skills to be purchased.

After a character beats the last mission, all skills of that campaign are given to that character as long as they've been unlocked for the account. For instance, a warrior who has beaten Imperial Sanctum will have ALL factions skills as long as they've unlocked them for the account such as through faction or attained on another character.

NOTE: Elite skills and Core skills are the only skills that aren't unlockable, they have to be bought and capped to the unique PVE character.

I think this would be a very fair way to have things if you've played through multiple characters or have unlocked skills for your heroes in PVP, your character will have them as long as they meet the requirements. This will also make your characters a lot more usable in PVP if they've met the PVE requirements, but they'll still be able to buy skills they need if they don't plan on beating the factions campaign, they can still go to Kaineng to purchase what they need like it is now, but with this system in place you have the ability to make your characters more versatile and not always stuck to cookie cutter builds.

xiaotsu · Dec 29, 2006, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Umm...no. People can just unlock them like everyone else, pay for them in one way or another.

Not A Fifty Five · Dec 30, 2006, 12:17 AM // 00:17

/signed

you bet

Deleet · Dec 30, 2006, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Signed, very helpful!

mrmango · Dec 30, 2006, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Good idea. Just make it clearer in your post. =P

Halmyr · Dec 30, 2006, 03:09 AM // 03:09

/signed,

Maybe make it just normal skills that become usable, elites would still be needed to cap.

Kai Nui · Dec 30, 2006, 06:04 AM // 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by xiaotsu

Umm...no. People can just unlock them like everyone else, pay for them in one way or another.

I didn't say that people would get skills they haven't already unlocked in the first place, so other than that, please don't be ignorant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halmyr

/signed,

Maybe make it just normal skills that become usable, elites would still be needed to cap.

I haven't edited the first post. Read the bold please.

Kong · Dec 30, 2006, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Maybe its just that it's past 2:30am but I dont' see any difference in your post in relation to the way it already is, except that you will automatically learn the skills you have unlocked.

In this respect, I don't think a change in this way is necessary.

All it requires to learn a skill on any character is the money and skill point and those are very easy to come by, especially with the way the missions rewards are in Factions and Nightfall. With the addition of Hero Trainers, it is even cheaper. You can learn new skills for existing professions for free. Out of all the new skills in Nightfall, I've only ahd to purchase capture signets and the odd 1 or 2 skills left over that I haven't learned through the Hero Trainers.

When it comes to the skills that characters can learn, they can already learn any skill they have unlocked. This was a great improvement when it was added, giving users the ability to learn the skills they wanted early or not having to go to specific outposts to get them. It was argued that this addition was creating an unbalance, but has worked out.

The system you are suggesting would change a number of things in the game and be a rather painful kick to the groin for anyone who has already purchased these skills the current way.

I'm just not sure it's something that is needed when an already working and accepted system is in place.

/not signed

Kai Nui · Dec 30, 2006, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kong

Maybe its just that it's past 2:30am but I dont' see any difference in your post in relation to the way it already is, except that you will automatically learn the skills you have unlocked.

You will learn skills you've unlocked after meeting the requirements, yes. I don't see any point in limiting PVE toons from skills you've already unlocked after beating the game, except Elite Skills for the title.

In this respect, I don't think a change in this way is necessary.

All it requires to learn a skill on any character is the money and skill point and those are very easy to come by, especially with the way the missions rewards are in Factions and Nightfall. With the addition of Hero Trainers, it is even cheaper. You can learn new skills for existing professions for free. Out of all the new skills in Nightfall, I've only ahd to purchase capture signets and the odd 1 or 2 skills left over that I haven't learned through the Hero Trainers.

When it comes to the skills that characters can learn, they can already learn any skill they have unlocked. This was a great improvement when it was added, giving users the ability to learn the skills they wanted early or not having to go to specific outposts to get them. It was argued that this addition was creating an unbalance, but has worked out.

So you're saying that this could create an unbalance, but in the end it will work out?

The system you are suggesting would change a number of things in the game and be a rather painful kick to the groin for anyone who has already purchased these skills the current way.

How exactly would this hurt anyone? I unlocked all prophecies and core elites at 3K faction each before factions came out and before faction was given out at 40 a kill. When I got the skill hunter title I threw away a lot of faction and time, not to mention I have spent skill points on skills I've already paid for with faction many times. I don't think it would be a painful kick in the groin for anyone, honestly. Most of the people I see are people with 4+ PVE toons who really don't have as many skills as they'd probably like and are already buying duplicates. Sure, you still might want some skills before you beat the game or ascend so you can still buy skills, but it's just an extra thing to assist players.

I'm just not sure it's something that is needed when an already working and accepted system is in place.

Just because something is accepted doesn't mean it's set into stone.

/not signed

I'm in bold above

Just because you choose to not be creative and try many different builds doesn't mean other people aren't. Sure, buying 1 skill isn't a problem, but if I want to test many builds I'm going to have to fork out tons of cash for skills that I may or may not have. I'm suggesting our PVE toons can have all our unlocked skills AFTER beating the game since there's really nothing left to do anyway. You might still have to buy skills, but at least you've got some help.

This game is based on skill, and a while back they removed Attribute Refund Points. They were nasty little things that you had to gain by getting experience in order to decrease any attribute. This made it really hard to change your build in any way, and they capped out at 24 attribute refund points so you really couldn't do anything you wanted. Now that the game has expanded greatly from only Tyria, there's a much wider variety of skills, and being forced into obtaining any skill more than once is a pretty large waste of effort if you ask me. So again, you may be content with your build, but I don't feel like I'm having fun in Guild Wars without changing my build occasionally, otherwise it's just dull, boring killing.

On another note, this really wouldn't affect anyone who's purely PVE and likes it the way it is. You still are forced to buy skills you don't have and never have received.

Let me say it one more time: I don't see any point in limiting PVE toons from skills you've already unlocked AFTER beating the main game, except elite skills which will still need to be capped in PVE.

Dougal Kronik · Dec 30, 2006, 10:42 AM // 10:42

For many players this would not amount to much of a difference.

If you play throught he entire game, chances are that you will have nearly all the non-elite skills for your primary profession anyway.

Most of the players I know have one character per primary profession. That is only one warrior primary on their account.

Since it has no bearing on elites or core skills, only the specific campaign's non elite skills, what sort of savings in time/money could you foresee.

The only big difference would be if someone had unlocked a lot of skills using faction, and these skills would only be available at the end of the game.

/not signed.

Crom The Pale · Dec 30, 2006, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Basically all your asking for are free skills, while id love to get them in quests this is not the way to do this.

For one thing there is no ascending in Nightfall.

Second this would amount to giving me all prophicies for 4 profesions with out ever having to buy a single one, ie ive all ready unlocked every proph skill so if i make a new char and beat the game without ever buying a skill for the other secondarys i could pick, buying skills for my primary and secondary then upon completeing the last mission i"d get every skill for the other 4 possible secondarys for free.

Thats a lot of free skills!

Then I move to Faction and repeat, again a lot of free skills. Nightfall....

Add to that ive now got 4 more secondarys with all there skills unlocked...

I really do understand where your coming from, my war uses every secondary profession and ive spent a tonne on skills to do so. Ive more templates than skills for my war.

But adding in free skills out side of quest rewards is just a bad idea.

Not to mention that your idea would be of no benifit to people that are new to the game, and we already have the advantage of being able to purchase any unlocked skill at a skill trainer rather than adventuring to the farthest outpost to find the one and only skill trainer that possess that skill.

Kendar Muert · Dec 30, 2006, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Make it a quest that is available in all three chapters. Problem solved.

/signed

Kai Nui · Dec 30, 2006, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

Basically all your asking for are free skills, while id love to get them in quests this is not the way to do this.

For one thing there is no ascending in Nightfall.

Second this would amount to giving me all prophicies for 4 profesions with out ever having to buy a single one, ie ive all ready unlocked every proph skill so if i make a new char and beat the game without ever buying a skill for the other secondarys i could pick, buying skills for my primary and secondary then upon completeing the last mission i"d get every skill for the other 4 possible secondarys for free.

Thats a lot of free skills!

Then I move to Faction and repeat, again a lot of free skills. Nightfall....

Add to that ive now got 4 more secondarys with all there skills unlocked...

I really do understand where your coming from, my war uses every secondary profession and ive spent a tonne on skills to do so. Ive more templates than skills for my war.

But adding in free skills out side of quest rewards is just a bad idea.

Not to mention that your idea would be of no benifit to people that are new to the game, and we already have the advantage of being able to purchase any unlocked skill at a skill trainer rather than adventuring to the farthest outpost to find the one and only skill trainer that possess that skill.

It's not supposed to help people who've not been through the game before, it's for the people who've gone through and paid for the skills on a character before or paid for some with faction. Even then you have to beat all three chapters with one character to collect all your skills, which isn't the easiest thing in the world. Also, in NF you do ascend, otherwise you'd not be able to enter the FoW or UW at the Chantry of Secrets. You gotta remember, YOU are not a warrior, you PLAY a warrior. After you've unlocked a skill for your account, there really isn't a reason for you to have to unlock it again, my system doesn't make it hard, just gives you what you already have. :P

actionjack · Dec 30, 2006, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Isn't this your 3rd thread about giving other character access to pre-unlock skill for free?

anyhow.. seem a decent suggestion, but feel it might just encourage too many people to rush the game, which mean more runners and paid-mission-buster. Granted it would be for your 3rd or 4th character, so would be somewhat okie.....

Also what about people with PvP Unlock packs?

But I would still like just to see improvement of...

-Cheaper cost of getting an already unlock-skills.
-More ways of earing skill points or free skills (things like Balt Flame as reward)
-Maybe an item that would allow you to get one unlock skill for free (again, as a reward, or even chest drop)
-Maybe allow skill capping a skill (regular or elite) that is already unlock to be free (the skill cap will be recycled). Thus add more insentive to go skill cap (which should of been a major fun of the game)

-Itemize the skills (like the good ol skill gems) would require too drastic of change, so I will only briefly suggest, but not go in detail on that...

Kong · Dec 30, 2006, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

Just because you choose to not be creative and try many different builds doesn't mean other people aren't. Sure, buying 1 skill isn't a problem, but if I want to test many builds I'm going to have to fork out tons of cash for skills that I may or may not have. I'm suggesting our PVE toons can have all our unlocked skills AFTER beating the game since there's really nothing left to do anyway. You might still have to buy skills, but at least you've got some help.

Who said I'm not creative in any character builds I run? You're making assumptions based on nothing except that I am disagreeing with you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

This game is based on skill, and a while back they removed Attribute Refund Points. They were nasty little things that you had to gain by getting experience in order to decrease any attribute. This made it really hard to change your build in any way, and they capped out at 24 attribute refund points so you really couldn't do anything you wanted.

I remmeber the attrib refund system and how annoying it was. After a short time you'd be able to refund more attribute points. But that has nothing to do with buying or using different skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

Now that the game has expanded greatly from only Tyria, there's a much wider variety of skills, and being forced into obtaining any skill more than once is a pretty large waste of effort if you ask me. So again, you may be content with your build, but I don't feel like I'm having fun in Guild Wars without changing my build occasionally, otherwise it's just dull, boring killing.

There's nothing stopping you from doing this now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

On another note, this really wouldn't affect anyone who's purely PVE and likes it the way it is. You still are forced to buy skills you don't have and never have received.

Let me say it one more time: I don't see any point in limiting PVE toons from skills you've already unlocked AFTER beating the main game, except elite skills which will still need to be capped in PVE.

I understand exactly what you're suggesting and wanting. I just dont' see a need for it. I can also pretty much see what Gaile would say or any other person from Anet, based on similar things they've responded to in the past. They would simply tell you, "They are different characters and in a sense different people. If you learn to stand on your head and sing through your ass, will i automatically know how to do it? No. I'd have to learn it for myself."

Maybe this will be added, but I highly doubt it, because as I've said.... It is not hard to gain the necessary gold or skill points you need to learn skills. Might take a bit of time depending on what you need and what you have, but with the way the mission rewards and quest rewards have been in the last 2 chapters (Factions and Nightfall) and also the new Hero Skill Trainers, which when learning a skill of a profession you are (learning a Monk skill when you are a N/Mo) you not only unlock it on your account for use in PvP and Heroes but you learn it yourself as well.

For these reasons above, I do not think it's necessary. And insulting my intelligence or whatever skills i have in Guild Wars is not only quite immature but will not change my mind.

Sorry you can't understand and/or accept my opinion, but it is what it is.

lilnate22 · Dec 30, 2006, 10:23 PM // 22:23

/signed

i think its BS that i gota spend 1k everytime i want to buy a skill...even in other chapters its utter BS

El Panty Bandito · Dec 30, 2006, 10:35 PM // 22:35

/NOT SIGNED

If you are looking for the easy way to get skills and/or the free way, then stop playing guild wars. Stop trying to come up with new ideas on easier ways to learn skills. The system in place now is very balanced and needs no change at all. Also stop trying to turn PvE into PvP. Just because PvP players can choose from any unlocked skill does not mean that PvE players should have access to unlocked skill just because they beat the game. You should listen to Kong.

*Eagerly awaiting your crass response

Kai Nui · Dec 31, 2006, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Eh, apparently everyone is beyond hope, because my supporters and opposers seem to no understand what I'm trying to say. Unless I see someone who understands what I'm trying to say, I think I'm pretty much done posting, but I'll observe.

Simply, after you've unlocked a skill once, you shouldn't have to put more effort forward than that. Even with this system it's not a "free" skill, it's only giving you what you already earned. Heck, I don't even have all skills unlocked for my account yet, as I'm sure many other people haven't, so I really fail to see how giving people access to skills they already own AFTER beating a game is an issue. Besides, skills shouldn't have to have any kind of grind effort because my understanding of guild wars is that it's about skill, not time spent grinding. If you can't understand that, then I'm done here. Just because you have skills on your character, it doesn't mean you are a good player, it just gives you the opportunity to play guild wars... Let me say this one more time, YOU ARE IN NO WAY GETTING ANYTHING FOR FREE, it only gives you skills you have unlocked...

Kong · Dec 31, 2006, 03:51 AM // 03:51

I understand perfectly what you are suggesting. Beat the game with a W/Me, once you've beaten it you gain all skills you have unlocked... ele, derv, para... etc You've unlocked it on your account (skill trainer, hero skill trainer, quest, faction, however you do it) but yes it's still "free" in the sense that you're getting those skills on that character without paying the gold and skill point to get it.

You think people aren't reading... but they are. I can't speak for others but I understand completely... I just do not see a need for it. It's easy enough to get those skills for a character as it is, unlocked or not unlocked. The small fee of 1 skill point and some gold is not a large amount and is easily obtained if not arleady available to a character.

I'm not trying to argue with you. But you are complaining that people do not understand what you want, but you're not understanding what people are saying back to you... ie ME.

bizarre_status · Dec 31, 2006, 06:41 AM // 06:41

hold on, let me try to understand what Kai Nui is saying. lets say you play as wammo finished the game and learned and/or paid few skill. from my understanding is when u play your second toon you wont be use those skills which had been learned by your wammo until you finish the game with your other toon. you would still have to pay and learn skills with other toons until u finish the game. if this is the Kai trying to say i personally dont see any harm doing it this way, i think it would encourage pve players to finish the game,