Curse

Zuranthium · Oct 24, 2006, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isil`Zha

You mean the RoF I just made them waste on a weak attack and they're waiting on it to recharge before they can cast it? Maybe if you actually read what I posted you could've made a useful response, instead of just repeating what you've already said ad nausiaum.

RoF recharges every 2 seconds, LMAO.

Quote:

Because those things are always up, and I never surprise anyone, as an assassin should do... </dripping sarcasm>

But an Elem ward will always be up. You can only effectively surpise someone who ventures outside of the Wards and your build simply doesn't do enough damage to hurt them enough before they get healed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isil`Zha

Fleeing foes take critical hits, that and the crippling...

The crippling is conditional, it's not always going to hit. Leaping Mantis Sting isn't good enough with an 8 second recharge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isil`Zha

I'm sorry, when did this suddenly become an entire team vs just me? Oh, and I see you conviently forgot about the part where I'm the one taking out the monks. And vs spell casters, the damage is not "crap." Oh wait, that's right, when I pointed out that I kill them before the duration even wears off, you ignored it, and apparently forgot about it here. Meaning I already delt with this - just because you ignore it doesn't make you right, in fact, it means you conceed. Thanks.

You can't simply KILL THEM, omfg leet skillz *gurgle*, before the duration wears off. You have nowhere near enough damage to do that. It will work on some people in AB but not very consistently in a real game, cmon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isil`Zha

That's funny, cause I can do that now. With dagger at 16, the crippling applied by leaping mantis sting is twice that of its recharge, and can easily be reapplied.

Once again, the crippling is conditional. If you sit around just waiting for them to move to use it, you are gimping your damage. That's why Warriors have more reliable DPS - their generic attacks actually do a decent amount of damage. Assassins rely on their attack skills and your attack chain is simply not very good damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isil`Zha

Again, you've failed to provide any proof, where I constantly do what you say I'm unable to. And I know the difference between a good and a bad monk when I go to off them - and don't give me the completely unsupported cop-out of "well obviously you haven't fought a good monk" as though no good players ever play in AB, Aspeenwood, or Jade Quarry - which is just asinine.

Actually, you've provided no proof. If you win HoH or a GvG match against a decent guild with this build, be sure to take a screenshot and show us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isil`Zha

Did I say anyone? Oh no wait, that's a starwman. And yet again you futher prove you didn't actually bother to read my entire post where I already covered such things - they don't have to be constant cause the kills are made before it ever wears off in the first place.

Yes, I did read your entire post, and your reasoning is poor. You absolutely do not have the damage to kill a good monk with this build. You can kill someone who stands there without paying attention to timing and tries to cast through your attacks at the wrong time and you can kill someone who does nothing but run around like a drunken fool, giving you lots of free criticals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isil`Zha

1a) Oh noes, standard anti-melee stuff! I never said it was unstoppable, now you're just getting into the counter - counter-counter - counter-counter-counter that can go on forever with GW.

Except that in the counter-counter-counter arguements that sometimes happen, people come up with random stupid examples. The fact that the counters to your build are indeed standard is what makes it sub-par.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isil`Zha

2) It doesn't rest entirely upon one skill, I can still dish out plenty of damage to spell casters (and do, despite what you might think) without TS...

Your attack chain does not include Deep Wound. It's enough to eventually kill people in AB who generally bring less defense (because you get rezzed so quickly) and also have less teammate support.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isil`Zha

3) Why the hell do you assume I'd use my attack skills while blinded? Seriously...

Against an Assassin a good blindbot will watch for what skills you're using and Blind you when you're commencing your attack chain. Right after your Lead attack you get blinded and your offhand fails. Some goes for any good interrupt ranger that is on you...as soon as the offhand attack is gonna come it gets interrupted. Death's Charge is not AoD...you can't "sneak attack" someone frequently enough and, as already stated, you don't do enough damage to quickly put someone near death. Additionally, you don't have the capability to at least get around a block/evade stance and/or enchantment that is affecting the target to ensure that your Dazed goes through and allow another Warrior to help you kill the Dazed target.

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How about this...you message me in game, Zuranthium Takendo (put me on your buddy list b/c I may not be logged in as that name). I bet you that you'll never drop one of my usual GvG monks below 50% health with your build. Then you'll see why these skills need an improvement. We could also try with a standard Cripshot or Elem runner, I'm quite confident they'd be able to kill you and never go below 50% health.

lord_shar · Oct 24, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Here's another skill I would like to see implemented at some future time:

Merciless Assault: (or any other greneric dagger attack name), 10 energy , 12 seconds recharge time. Dual Attack. Must follow an offhand attack. If this attack hits, target takes 5..20 damage, and the target is knocked down if he has no adjacent allies. If the target is not knocked down, then that target suffers a deep wound for 5..15 seconds (attribute = Critical Strikes).

Damned if you do, damned if you don't...

Tyl Kai · Oct 25, 2006, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Few Comments
I think Leaping Mantis stings needs to be changed but in a different way. i use the skill in alot of builds and the most frusterating thing about it is the fact that you can't use it on other Melee opponents attacking you. I think this could be remedied by making it a "ranged melee" attack or what i would really prefer would be that you perform a "roll" or "jump" in a direction you hhit on your keyboard and then perform the attack or you could sperate skills do this. of course this is alot of attention to one skill but they should still have the "roll" animation from the original preview. Of course this does this subtract from crippling dagger usefulness but oh well. As for palm strike the ability to always hit no matter what (with the exception of interupts) makes this skill highly versatile especial when combined with twisting fangs.

Zuranthium · Oct 26, 2006, 05:42 PM // 17:42

The new Assassin updates are in!

......and I'm disappointed. Most of the changes were half of what I think needed to be done.

Enduring Toxin got a duration increase but still isn't spammable.

Shameful Fear got a recharge decrease but still casts too slow.

Impale got a damage increase (and I like how they made it a non-hex) but the recharge time still means it's fairly useless. I think it needs to be a half-range spell and do even more damage (because it's simply not viable to run 16 Deadly Arts). Then it would be useful with Deadly Haste (if they ever fix that skill).

Mirrored Stance got a casting time decrease but isn't spammable.

Siphon Strength....blah. Ick. It would be great with Deadly Haste (again, if they make that skill like Ritual Lord and not an enchantment) when changed in the manner I envision, but will remain poor otherwise.

ON THE POSITIVE SIDE, Black Lotus Strike is freaking insane energy-management and Exposes Defenses is excellent. I think this is the new premium Assassin build:

Aura of Displacement
Expose Defenses
Black Lotus Strike
Twisting Fangs
Black Spider Strike
(dual attack of your choice)
Shadow Refuge
(Rez Signet or utility)

Lead attacks are worthless.

lord_shar · Oct 26, 2006, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Lots have already started BLS -> Horns -> Moebius for pinning down lone opponents permanently. This update is HUGE.

Zuranthium · Oct 26, 2006, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Oh yes, that Moebius Strike update is strong as well. You'd keep the same build I posted above and just use Moebius Strike instead of AoD (and then instead of Shadow Refuge you bring either a Warrior IAS or Shock). It comes down to what your team wants the Assassin to do - Gank or DPS. Either way, that's the new Assassin template. Attack chains with Lead attacks are total crap.

Zuranthium · Oct 26, 2006, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Expose Defenses has still not been changed in-game yet. Hopefully they fix that within the next day.

BahamutKaiser · Oct 26, 2006, 11:10 PM // 23:10

The Mobius Strike change was very nice, it was already a good skill, but now it is a good dual attack spam setup.

But they still didn't bother to fix my most pressing issue, which is their teleports. They did improve their armor a bit, so Assassins defense sucks just a little bit less, but they are still Elementist fodder. I really woln't rest on that subject until all teleports recharge 30 seconds or less at the least.

Zuranthium · Oct 27, 2006, 02:52 AM // 02:52

OMG they did a game reload and Expose Defenses still isn't fixed. I neeeeed that for the build, cmon ANET. Teleports need to be fixed, yes, but I don't even care right now. LOL.

boss_angler · Oct 28, 2006, 04:45 PM // 16:45

*I, in no way, can contribute to this thread - so please excuse my interruption of thoughts*

This has got to be the most insane thread I have ever come across anywhere. Wow. If some of you guys had been around when real Role-Playing Games were going strong (i.e. pencil, paper, and dice) there may have never been a single game developed for computers.

*ok, thank you. continue.*

Zuranthium · Oct 29, 2006, 12:44 AM // 00:44

I updated the first post to include all the Nightfall skills.

Zuranthium · Nov 06, 2006, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Bump, to go with Elem thread that was just updated.

legion_rat · Nov 06, 2006, 01:41 PM // 13:41

i think most of the skills are ok but the recharge times SUCK. As a warrior you can sit there and take a few hits while skill recharge. an assassin doesnt have that blessing. Teleports (shadow steps what ever) need to be fixed. recharge is just sad.

~the rat-sassin~

Carth` · Nov 06, 2006, 03:12 PM // 15:12

I didn't read all of them, but this one:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

Temple Strike - Decrease to 10 energy.

Why? - Because no Assassin skill should cost more than 10 energy. 15 energy is a big investment for an ELITE with such a long recharge.

No. It is already overpowered. An unconditional dazed, covered with blind, that is easy to apply. It damn well better be expensive. Look at the cost of Broad Head Arrow (15 energy, hardly ever hits), and Concussion Shot (25 energy, has to interrupt a spell). Yes a ranger has expertise, but still.

An assassin with Temple Strike is very dangerous. Really I think after Factions Arenanet has made dazed too easy to apply. You used to hardly ever see it, but now somebody is always dazing you.

Zuranthium · Nov 06, 2006, 04:28 PM // 16:28

It's not unconditional dazed at all. Unconditional dazed would be a touch skill that says "target opponent becomes Dazed for X seconds". Temple Strike is an attack and one that already requires you to successfully complete another attack for it to work.

Zuranthium · Nov 09, 2006, 05:29 AM // 05:29

I'm seeing less Assassins than ever post-Nightfall. A Warrior with You're All Alone is a better ganker and a Rampage As One Thumper has better damage and equal movement ability.

BahamutKaiser · Nov 11, 2006, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Even with some useful skills like Black Spider Strike, Assassins are not going to fit in the uber supportive Paragon parties. Warriors can take better damage, contribute to echo maintenance, defend their party against arrows, and still bring plenty of damage to the table.

And Dervish has equally squeezed Assassin out of the scene, with thier Mystisism powered Protection spam, Assassins are almost required to bring Way of the Fox or Expose Defense to hit their enemies, which is likely why Expose defense was improved, out of neccessity.

With the passing of Factions and the advent of 2 great new professions, Assassin is likely to go all but extinct. Ritualist is likely to find a simular fate, as energy efficient mobile support is much more accomidating than slow immobile support.

Zuranthium · Nov 15, 2006, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser

And Dervish has equally squeezed Assassin out of the scene, with thier Mystisism powered Protection spam

Dervish and Assassins should not be playing the same role.

It's actually YAA that has squeezed Assassins out of being gankers and other slightly sub-par (or outright sucky) skills in general that don't compensate for the Assassin's lower armor. Plus, shadowstep melee attack spikes need to be something the Assassin has a stranglehold on. Teleports REALLY need to disable adrenaline abilities for a couple seconds. Feel free to use the abilities as a Warrior for quick movement but don't think they should be giving you the same benefit. That kind of element of surprise should be something only an Assassin can achieve.

sunnydays · Dec 03, 2006, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Screw the defense improvement and just improve offense even further. I want my unsuspecting strike doing 200 or more damage instead 134 on a warrior. And have double attack occur anytime, using dagger attack skill or regular dagger attack. I'm doing about 100 damage with scythe with "way of the assassin" with no special attack but it just feels weird when my sins uses a scythe lol.

djbartek · Dec 15, 2006, 03:31 PM // 15:31

My suggestions(agree with yours, but what I would rather see in some cases):
1)Critical Strikes:
- Assault Enchantments - add"for each enchantment removed that way, target foe loses x Energy"
- Dark Apostacy - it can be as you posted, but i would rather it was"every time you successfully make a critical hit, you remove one Enchantment from your target and foes near your target. If you remove an Enchantment in this way, you lose 3...1 Energy(for all Enchantments removed, not those from target foe only) or Dark Apostasy ends."
- Locust's Fury - maybe some small dmg bonus?
- Palm Strike - add" if that foe is suffering from a Hex or Condition that foe is knocked down"(like an elite iron palm)
- Seeping Wound - Target foe loses x...y Health per second. If target foe i bleeding or poisoned, he loses additional x...y health per second
2)Dagger Mastery:
- Exhausting Assault - maybe some small bonus dmg?
- Repeating Strike - a dual following a dual
3)Deadly Arts:
- Augury of Death - don't know how change it yet, but it must be. I don't see any uses for it as it is now.
- Mark of Death - add"if foe who is under influence of this Hex dies, he cannot be ressurected for x seconds"
-Mark of Insecurity - add -2 pips of Energy degen
- Shroud of Silence - add"...and cannot use Shouts or Chants"
4)Shadow Arts:
-Mirrored Stance - add"when you enter the same stance as target foe, that stance on target foe ends"
-Shadow Form - increase duration(at 12 Shadow Arts it lasts 20-22 sec) and Health left a bit.
-Unseen Fury - you cannot be blinded?
-Wastrel's Collapse - change to"If target foe uses a Skill, Wastrel's Collapse ends prematurely and that skill takes additional 20 sec to recharge"

My three cents