Curse

shifting shadows · Dec 31, 2006, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Goin for something a little different than the classic druid here.

A seeder is someone bound to the service of Melandru who uses seeds to grow various things that aid allies and harm enemies.

Here is how seeding works. You plant a seed similar to how to place a trap except you aren't easily interrupted. Once the seed has been planted, it starts to grow. During the time it is growing, it can be attacked and destroyed more easily than when it reaches full growth and stops growing. During its growth time, whatever it is that is growing takes double damage and has only 250 health. When it reaches full growth it becomes completely healed and has 500 health. Some seeds grow things that are stationary, some grow things that are mobile. Depends on the seed.

Primary Attribute: Growth: for every rank in growth, your seeds grow 1% faster.

Bug Magic: no inherent effect. Skills relating to bug magic become more effective for every rank in bug magic.

Aspect Magic: no inherent effect. Skills relating to aspect magic become more effective for every rank in aspect magic.

Plant Magic: no inherent effect. Skills relating to plant magic become more effective for every rank in plant magic.

Skills:
Growth:
Rejeuvenation: Enchantment. For 30 seconds all seeds that you plant have +3...6 health regeneration.
Energy: 15 Cast: 1 Recharge: 45

Plant Thorns: Seed. Plant a seed at your location. This seed takes 6 seconds to grow. When it is fully grown it will cause cripple and bleeding to all foes who step into the thorns for 7...16 seconds. The thorns die after 120...260 seconds.
Energy: 15 Cast: 3 Recharge: 60

Fertile Land: Elite Enchantment. All seeds that you plant for the next 20...45 seconds grow 33% faster.
Energy: 10 Cast: 1 Recharge: 60

Bug Magic:
Exoskeleton: Enchantment. You gain 40 armor for 10...50 seconds, but you lose 32...10 armor against crushing damage.
Energy: 5 Cast: 1 Recharge: 30

Wiskit Swarm: Spell. All nearby allies lose one condition and for every nearby ally that lost a condition, one nearby foe gains a condition and takes 15...40 damage.
Energy: 10 Cast: 2 Recharge: 10

Incessant Buzzing: Hex spell. Target foe is hexed with incessant buzzing. While target foe is hexed with incessant buzzing there is a 15...40% chance that any skills used by target foe will fail for 3...14 seconds.
Energy: 15 Cast: 2 Recharge: 30

Plant Beetle: Seed. Plant a seed at your location. This seed takes 6 seconds to grow. When it is fully grown a level 2...16 giant Beetle will will follow you and attack as though it is one of your pets. Only two of these beetles may be active at a time. If a beetle dies then it leaves behind an exploitable corpse.
Energy: 15 Cast: 3 Recharge: 60

Aspect Magic:
Aspect of the Wolf: skill. For 10 seconds you deal an extra 5...10 damage in melee and have a 25% chance to cause crippling with your melee attacks.
Energy: 15 Recharge: 45 seconds

Aspect of the River: Enchantment. For 30 seconds, all your attacks deal cold damage and everytime you use a skill, all nearby foes take 20...36 cold damage.
Energy: 10 Cast: 1 Recharge: 30

Tornado Stance: Stance. For 4...12 seconds, you cannot be hit by melee attacks, but take 20...8 extra lightning damage when hit by arrows.
Energy:5 Recharge: 30

(Thanks for the plant magic ideas Giddeanx)
Plant Magic:
Black Roses: Seed. Plant a seed at your location. This seed takes 8 seconds to grow. Any creatures that die in the area of effect immediately have their corpses exploited and a seed is planted. The seed takes 3 seconds to grow into a death vine. Death vines exploit all corpses within their radius to create level 8...16 masterless bone fiends. Black Roses die after 120...260 seconds.
Energy: 25 Cast: 3 Recharge: 120

Explosion of Thorns: spell. Target foe is enveloped in vines and unable to move for 1 second. That foe takes 35...60 damage and begins bleeding for 4...12 seconds.
Energy: 10 Cast: 2 Recharge: 20

Singing Reeds: seed. Plant a seed at your location. This seed takes 6 seconds to grow. Any creatures that move into the area of effect have a 50% chance of becoming dazed for 2...7 seconds when casting spells for 60...100 seconds.
Energy: 25 Cast: 3 Recharge: 60

Kai Nui · Dec 31, 2006, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Interesting idea, although the primary attribute doesn't seem like it's worthwhile, as all primary attributes to date have some kind of effect on not only their class but others aswell. I did some notes on skills since some of them don't seem quite right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shifting shadows

Skills:
Growth:
Rejeuvenation: Enchantment. For 30 seconds all seeds that you plant have +3...6 health regeneration.
Energy: 15 Cast: 1 Recharge: 45

Are seeds the same as an animated creature?

Plant Thorns: Seed. Plant a seed at your location. This seed takes 6 seconds to grow. When it is fully grown it will cause cripple and bleeding to all foes who step into the thorns for 7...16 seconds. The thorns die after 120...260 seconds.
Energy: 15 Cast: 3 Recharge: 60

Extremely strong, it lasts 120 seconds without any points into this attribute? bleeding and cripple for 7 seconds is very good aswell. I also suppose you'd have to be stupid enough to step into it, but this seems like a super overpowered trap.

Fertile Land: Elite Enchantment. All seeds that you plant for the next 20...45 seconds grow 33% faster.
Energy: 10 Cast: 1 Recharge: 60

Lol I'm surprised you think this one merits elite status.

Bug Magic:
Exoskeleton: Enchantment. You gain 40 armor for 10...50 seconds, but you lose 32...10 armor against crushing damage.
Energy: 5 Cast: 1 Recharge: 30

Is there such thing as crushing damage? This is like physical or elemental resistance but much better, so what if it's an enchantment, this is godly in comparison...

Wiskit Swarm: Spell. All nearby allies lose one condition and for every nearby ally that lost a condition, one nearby foe gains a condition and takes 15...40 damage.
Energy: 10 Cast: 2 Recharge: 10

This really doesn't fit, it has too much power, it's like several illusion skills...

Incessant Buzzing: Hex spell. Target foe is hexed with incessant buzzing. While target foe is hexed with incessant buzzing there is a 15...40% chance that any skills used by target foe will fail for 3...14 seconds.
Energy: 15 Cast: 2 Recharge: 30

I don't think this class should have hexes. This is a very good hex aswell, could merit elite status.

Plant Beetle: Seed. Plant a seed at your location. This seed takes 6 seconds to grow. When it is fully grown a level 2...20 giant Beetle will will follow you and attack as though it is one of your pets.
Energy: 15 Cast: 3 Recharge: 60

Too overpowered, this wouldn't ever become a skill. The beetle doesn't expire after a time and can have multiples. This wouldn't fit in at all...

Aspect Magic:
Aspect of the Wolf: skill. For 10 seconds you deal an extra 5...13 damage in melee and have a 25% chance to cause crippling with your melee attacks.
Energy: 15 Recharge: 45 seconds

This is a melee class too? lol?

I hope you come back to finish, you need to tweak some skills and better define the class. I was visualizing a caster class, but you end up giving him a melee attack bonus skill. One last thing I should mention is when I think of a "seeder" I think more of an 18 year old guy instead of a druid...

shifting shadows · Jan 01, 2007, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Apparently you aren't paying attention or just don't seem to be thinking. Let me point out some things for you.

1. Some seeds can grow into an animated creature, some just turn into aoes

2. Extremely strong? They CAN be killed. Did you read? And it is much easier to kill during the growth stage. Meaning it isn't super overpowered at all. How easy is it to kill something that has no heals, 500 health, and 60 armor?

3. It's elite yeah. So is Ritual Lord. A commonly used ritualist elite. With almost the same ability.

4. Hammers do crushing damage. As well as some monsters. I'll put that one down to your ignorance. And for the record, there are spells similar to that already in game, such as armor of frost. Although I believe they changed it's weakness against fire somewhat in one of the updates.

5. Ahh yes wiskit swarm. Overpowered? How often do your allies and foes get together in a little ball for this be useful? From time to time is the correct answer. It's not spammable, it doesn't do alot of damage, and it's basically a very limited transfer conditions with a frag hex on it.

6. You don't think the class should have hexes? Maybe it should and maybe it shouldn't, but maybe I'd pay more attention if you gave a better reason than, it doesn't seem like a hex class.

7. Beetles are extremely vulnerable as are any other seed skills. Re read my description on how they work.

8. No it's not a melee class. What are you thinking? All melee classes have their own attribute for the weapon. And don't start goin on about a useless skill either. If you do I might be forced to point out that mesmers have an elite spell called Illusionary Weapon that requires, hold on let me highlight that, requires the use of a sword.

Note about primary: Ritualist's primary is similar in that it only really benefits their class. It slightly benefits the rangers too, but there aren't any builds being commonly used that utilizes a ranger's spirits and spwaning because simply put, ranger spirits are more useful.

And Divine Favor helps who? It heals whenever you cast a what? A monk spell. So no, this isn't the ONLY attribute that doesn't aid the primary. And it's not as if it would be impossible to create a spinoff on the seeds with another class later on. After all, they did it with spirits.

Next time, think before you put something down. It looks like you just looked at everything I wrote, said it's all overpowered, and started ranting along without bothering to look at the weaknesses.

Kai Nui · Jan 01, 2007, 10:09 PM // 22:09

R O F L O L M A O

Quote:

Originally Posted by shifting shadows

Apparently you aren't paying attention or just don't seem to be thinking. Let me point out some things for you.

1. Some seeds can grow into an animated creature, some just turn into aoes

Then some skills already operate upon seeds. Still, I'm not sure if plants are animated creatures or aoe like traps. Please clarify.

2. Extremely strong? They CAN be killed. Did you read? And it is much easier to kill during the growth stage. Meaning it isn't super overpowered at all. How easy is it to kill something that has no heals, 500 health, and 60 armor?

Sounds more like a ritualist.

3. It's elite yeah. So is Ritual Lord. A commonly used ritualist elite. With almost the same ability.

Sounds even more like a ritualist.

4. Hammers do crushing damage. As well as some monsters. I'll put that one down to your ignorance. And for the record, there are spells similar to that already in game, such as armor of frost. Although I believe they changed it's weakness against fire somewhat in one of the updates.

I always though hammers did blunt damage. Besides, no one uses hammers often enough to make this balanced in my oppinion.

5. Ahh yes wiskit swarm. Overpowered? How often do your allies and foes get together in a little ball for this be useful? From time to time is the correct answer. It's not spammable, it doesn't do alot of damage, and it's basically a very limited transfer conditions with a frag hex on it.

Yeah, doesn't quite fit, sounds like a mesmer or necromancer skill, similar to stuff we have already actually, just jumbled into one.

6. You don't think the class should have hexes? Maybe it should and maybe it shouldn't, but maybe I'd pay more attention if you gave a better reason than, it doesn't seem like a hex class.

I just don't see this as having a hex, just like how I don't see an elementalist with a signet. Just seems out of place.

7. Beetles are extremely vulnerable as are any other seed skills. Re read my description on how they work.

It's not an elite, you can oath shot it back and keep spamming out the beetles. Overpowered when I see that a ranger is allowed to have one and a necromancer has to take up an elite spot for a Flesh golem AND there has to be a corpse.

8. No it's not a melee class. What are you thinking? All melee classes have their own attribute for the weapon. And don't start goin on about a useless skill either. If you do I might be forced to point out that mesmers have an elite spell called Illusionary Weapon that requires, hold on let me highlight that, requires the use of a sword.

Actually it requires the use of a melee weapon, and it's a very gimmicky spell which is worthless in my oppinion. I've played PVE with only one character the last 18 months, and I've played my fair share of IW builds, but it's a pretty worthless skill. This skill you're suggesting reminds me of the ritualist yet again with Sight Beyond Sight. Just seems unually out of place for a druid type caster character to have any kind of fighting skills. Mesmer is alright in my mind, they're illusionary and deceptive. Seeing some old druid guy fighting with a sword and given the skill to doesn't seem quite right to me.

Note about primary: Ritualist's primary is similar in that it only really benefits their class. It slightly benefits the rangers too, but there aren't any builds being commonly used that utilizes a ranger's spirits and spwaning because simply put, ranger spirits are more useful.

Ritualist's primary is Spawning Power that assissts all animated creatures, so it helps necromancers aswell.

And Divine Favor helps who? It heals whenever you cast a what? A monk spell. So no, this isn't the ONLY attribute that doesn't aid the primary. And it's not as if it would be impossible to create a spinoff on the seeds with another class later on. After all, they did it with spirits.

Monk is a good exception though. Don't have any arguments points here because you're right, except I don't see a spinoff of seeds in the future. **Chia Pet Grower**

I am a silly Nooby-McNoobster.

True, I totally agree with you on this point. I'm trying to give constructive critisism and you get so wound up with your own rage that you don't actually gain anything out of it. Sad, really. Oh well, can't help that noobs know everything and everyone else is wrong. Good luck finding someone else to critique your unfinished class concept. Peace.

draxynnic · Jan 03, 2007, 01:04 AM // 01:04

The beetle, at a glance, is overpowered. At present, you have nothing to stop it from growing to an arbitrarily large swarm of level 20+ (are they level 20 at attribute level 12 or 16?) beetles by simply sitting and dropping a seed, wait for the skill to recharge, and deploying another one.

I think you need to think about whether this is intended to be a swarm or a sidekick, and then apply one of the following changes:

Sidekick: Limit the number you can have to 1. If it doesn't leave an exploitable corpse, this could be enough to keep it nonelite, but it's probably need to require 16 in the attribute to be a level 20 critter as well. Or you could leave it as is and make it elite, making a slightly weaker Fleshy that doesn't require a corpse.

Swarm: Definitely no exploitable corpses. To balance this, you need to either limit the numbers, put a lifespan on the beetles, or both - and a reduction in level is probably also in order. Due to the lack of corpse requirements, the swarm should be limited to about half the strength of that available to a Necromancer. (It's an obvious comparison to make, but I'd be pointing towards the difference between the Necromancer and Druid in Diablo 2 here: the Necromancer required corpses but could use them to build a truly impressive swarm, while the Druid's was unconditional but more limited in scope.)

kKagari · Jan 03, 2007, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Quote:

8. No it's not a melee class. What are you thinking? All melee classes have their own attribute for the weapon. And don't start goin on about a useless skill either. If you do I might be forced to point out that mesmers have an elite spell called Illusionary Weapon that requires, hold on let me highlight that, requires the use of a sword.

Actually it requires the use of a melee weapon, and it's a very gimmicky spell which is worthless in my oppinion. I've played PVE with only one character the last 18 months, and I've played my fair share of IW builds, but it's a pretty worthless skill. This skill you're suggesting reminds me of the ritualist yet again with Sight Beyond Sight. Just seems unually out of place for a druid type caster character to have any kind of fighting skills. Mesmer is alright in my mind, they're illusionary and deceptive. Seeing some old druid guy fighting with a sword and given the skill to doesn't seem quite right to me.

well i think everyone is entitled to create something that doesnt conform to the norm, a semi caster, semi weapon-based class sounds good too. as for the point about IW, cover it with feigned neutrality and thats the bomb

. i mean, cmon.......GANDALF whacks people with a stick.

but yeah, beetles are overpowered, and a second ritualist-type profession will bring hell to .........random arenas.........

my suggestion to this build is this:

perhaps u need a corpse to exploit in order to plant a seed. like sort of make this guy a rival necromancer or something. and instead of having 1 second cast time exploits, the seeder has shorter activation time TOUCH skills which exploit targetted corpses (yes, a-net will need to make corpse targetting possible). and the seed will grow and do some sort of disgusting animation totally consuming the corpse.

itd be cool to have a skill where the way the seed grows depends on the profession of the corpse...well when it was alive. and if the corpse was ressurected it could add additional negative/ positive effects.

the way i see these seeds are.......they seem a bit like the torment claws, some form of stationary creature that whacks the **** outta ppl if they arent careful, the 'aoe' / 'trap' versions seem a tad too powerful

Kai Nui · Jan 03, 2007, 04:16 AM // 04:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by kKagari

the way i see these seeds are.......they seem a bit like the torment claws, some form of stationary creature that whacks the **** outta ppl if they arent careful, the 'aoe' / 'trap' versions seem a tad too powerful

That's exactly what I was thinking of, Torment claws. Sounds good to me.

actionjack · Jan 03, 2007, 04:58 AM // 04:58

YEah.. thats one of the problem with the plants.. as they just become too similar to ritualist's sprit. I won't use corpse too.. as it just become another necro... (but does sound like a cool necro skill,.. Death Rose anyone?)

Looking for good ideas on how to further make pants more unique.

draxynnic · Jan 03, 2007, 11:41 AM // 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

Looking for good ideas on how to further make pants more unique.

Drakeskin belt? Polkadot pattern fabric? Plaid, maybe? Inside-out pockets? Leave one leg at its standard length and cut the other off at the knee?

Sorry, couldn't resist...

Giddeanx · Jan 03, 2007, 03:01 PM // 15:01

You are right plants become very much like a turret. Some difference could be no ranged attacks (like worms and the previously mentioned claws) limited movement could be interesting. Drop plants could also act like an environmental effect for an area. Kind of like icy terrain. You may have a little circle of roses when walked through cause bleeding. Or maybe if some one dies with in the circle (death vines?) a vined beast rises. I don't know just spitting out things.

shifting shadows · Jan 03, 2007, 07:55 PM // 19:55

All right I'm goin to work on it a bit more. I'll modify the beetles a bit so that they have more of a weakness and perhaps a more unique role than just swarm.

I had already thought that it could be overpowered when I wrote it in, but reading that it was overpowered from someone who just looked at the class and just basically said it was all wrong made me dig in my heels. Just as a note, he claimed first that it was overpowered, now it is too much like a rit?

Ritualist spirits focus on either damage, protection, or other useful skills like healing, disenchantment, or interruption. With the exception of Shadowsong (and any Nightfall skills I have yet to see) the ritualist spirits do not focus on conditions like the plants will. However I do see your point and this might be a way to compromise.

Plant growth: when plants are considered fully grown and are no longer growing seeds, they then become growing plants. For the first 1/3 of the plant's life, it affects only those adjacent to it. The next 2/3 it has grown enough to affect those in nearby range. And for the last third of it's life it has the range of in the area.

In this way the plants are diffferent because as time goes by, their range extends. This could make creating escapes over bridges and protection for key pvp players more valuable. This is still a work in progress, and I'm goin to edit the first post to add in skills right now.

Kai Nui · Jan 04, 2007, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Second revision

Quote:

Originally Posted by shifting shadows

Here is how seeding works. You plant a seed similar to how to place a trap except you aren't easily interrupted.

Casts slightly faster than a ritualist spirit.

Once the seed has been planted, it starts to grow. During the time it is growing, it can be attacked and destroyed more easily than when it reaches full growth and stops growing. During its growth time, whatever it is that is growing takes double damage and has only 250 health.

Can you heal plants?

When it reaches full growth it becomes completely healed and has 500 health. Some seeds grow things that are stationary, some grow things that are mobile. Depends on the seed.

So all plants have the same life no matter what level they are? I think it'd fit better if each plant had different life at different levels. Level 1 spirits have 50 life while a level 8 spirit has 500 life for example.

Primary Attribute: Growth: for every rank in growth, your seeds grow 1% faster.

Honestly I find the primary attribute still pretty useless. I know you mentioned divine favor, but I think that's a very good exception. I'd like to see something more useful to multiple classes.

Bug Magic: no inherent effect. Skills relating to bug magic become more effective for every rank in bug magic.

I think Bug Magic doesn't sound good. Insect Magic sounds better, but I don't think that it should be called a Magic at all.

Aspect Magic: no inherent effect. Skills relating to aspect magic become more effective for every rank in aspect magic.

Personally, I don't find this name appealing.

Plant Magic: no inherent effect. Skills relating to plant magic become more effective for every rank in plant magic.

Again, everything I said with bug magic, except maybe Foliage or Vegetation. I still don't like this being a magic, although I like this being a magic than bug magic.

Skills:
Growth:
Rejeuvenation: Enchantment. For 30 seconds all seeds that you plant have +3...6 health regeneration.
Energy: 15 Cast: 1 Recharge: 45

Looks pretty balanced, I just want clarification on who this enchants. Does it enchant you, all plants you've planted or you and any plants you plant after casting this enchantment get the effect? One thing I don't like is that it's +3 without any attribute points into it and +6 at it's max. I'd prefer +1...8 so that people get a benefit out of having this as a primary profession rather than anyone can just throw it on their bar for +3. This skill reminds me of the Spawning Power skill: Signet of Creation. Might want to look at that to help you in changing/deciding on what to do with this skill.

Plant Thorns: Seed. Plant a seed at your location. This seed takes 6 seconds to grow. When it is fully grown it will cause cripple and bleeding to all foes who step into the thorns for 7...16 seconds. The thorns die after 120...260 seconds.
Energy: 15 Cast: 3 Recharge: 60

Are these thorns visible like a spirit or hidden like a trap? Also, how large is the area of effect, nearby, adjacent, earshot? lol. Other than that it's another very powerful skill at 0 growth. you can have up to 2 thorns out without any attribute points AND stepping into a patch cripples and bleeds foes for 7 seconds at the minimum. Very strong, although I'm sure you'll say, "But it has a growth period wher it can die!" I know, and I'm saying it's overpowered.

Fertile Land: Elite Enchantment. All seeds that you plant for the next 20...45 seconds grow 33% faster.
Energy: 10 Cast: 1 Recharge: 60

Decent, not as original as I would hope, but gets the job done.

Bug Magic:
Exoskeleton: Enchantment. You gain 40 armor for 10...50 seconds, but you lose 32...10 armor against crushing damage.
Energy: 5 Cast: 1 Recharge: 30

Like I said, you don't see too many hammer warriors around to trigger this. Might want to make the duration of the skill down to 5...30 at the very least.

Wiskit Swarm: Spell. All nearby allies lose one condition and for every nearby ally that lost a condition, one nearby foe gains a condition and takes 15...40 damage.
Energy: 10 Cast: 2 Recharge: 10

This is like three skills in one. Extinguish+Hypochondria+Fragility. Lose the condition enducing, and lower the damage output from the skill. Since you can put conditions onto yourself (EX: Barbed Signet, Illusion of Haste) I feel like this would be very overpowered. Maybe say "The same foe cannot be struck twice," and I think you've got a winner if you kept the damage the same.

Incessant Buzzing: Hex spell. Target foe is hexed with incessant buzzing. While target foe is hexed with incessant buzzing there is a 15...40% chance that any skills used by target foe will fail for 3...14 seconds.
Energy: 15 Cast: 2 Recharge: 30

Seems a little too strong, make it elite and I'll take it. Otherwise make is spells not skills that fail.

Plant Beetle: Seed. Plant a seed at your location. This seed takes 6 seconds to grow. When it is fully grown a level 2...16 giant Beetle will will follow you and attack as though it is one of your pets. Only two of these beetles may be active at a time. If a beetle dies then it leaves behind an exploitable corpse.
Energy: 15 Cast: 3 Recharge: 60

Still have a problem with this skill. You can always create these critters in the gate, seems like a replacement to pet mastery, except it's more conductive to making corpses for your team to exploit. In case you don't know what Jagged Bones is currently doing in HA, I suggest you find out and are sure it won't cause any kind of problem like such. On a positive note, beetles could bring IWAY back...

Aspect Magic:
Aspect of the Wolf: skill. For 10 seconds you deal an extra 5...10 damage in melee and have a 25% chance to cause crippling with your melee attacks.
Energy: 15 Recharge: 45 seconds

I like. I'd like to see this as a stance though.

Aspect of the River: Enchantment. For 30 seconds, all your attacks deal cold damage and everytime you use a skill, all nearby foes take 20...36 cold damage.
Energy: 10 Cast: 1 Recharge: 30

We have dervishes... No way is this gonna be in without serious alteration.

Tornado Stance: Stance. For 4...12 seconds, you cannot be hit by melee attacks, but take 20...8 extra lightning damage when hit by arrows.
Energy:5 Recharge: 30

bump up to 10 energy might be nice. I can see this being commonplace upon a monk's arsenal.

(Thanks for the plant magic ideas Giddeanx)
Plant Magic:
Black Roses: Seed. Plant a seed at your location. This seed takes 8 seconds to grow. Any creatures that die in the area of effect immediately have their corpses exploited and a seed is planted. The seed takes 3 seconds to grow into a death vine. Death vines exploit all corpses within their radius to create level 8...16 masterless bone fiends. Black Roses die after 120...260 seconds.
Energy: 25 Cast: 3 Recharge: 120

So let me get this straight. It's a plant that exploits corpses to create seeds that exploit corpses to make masterless bone fiends? I'd like to see this in TA, but then the entire team would already be dead. Plus, how large of an area do these guys exploit, how fast do they exploit, and what stops the first one from exploiting a corpse that the second one would exploit into a bone fiend?

Explosion of Thorns: spell. Target foe is enveloped in vines and unable to move for 1 second. That foe takes 35...60 damage and begins bleeding for 4...12 seconds.
Energy: 10 Cast: 2 Recharge: 20

Strange, I like it, but I can't help feeling this should be an elite.

Singing Reeds: seed. Plant a seed at your location. This seed takes 6 seconds to grow. Any creatures that move into the area of effect have a 50% chance of becoming dazed for 2...7 seconds when casting spells for 60...100 seconds.
Energy: 25 Cast: 3 Recharge: 60

depends on how large the area of effect is. Also, I don't like seeing it being 60 seconds at 0 in this attribute...

Quote:

Originally Posted by shifting shadows

I had already thought that it could be overpowered when I wrote it in, but reading that it was overpowered from someone who just looked at the class and just basically said it was all wrong made me dig in my heels. Just as a note, he claimed first that it was overpowered, now it is too much like a rit?

Not sure why you'd get mad over something you knew and I knew. :/

Ritualist spirits focus on either damage, protection, or other useful skills like healing, disenchantment, or interruption. With the exception of Shadowsong (and any Nightfall skills I have yet to see) the ritualist spirits do not focus on conditions like the plants will. However I do see your point and this might be a way to compromise.

It's just a weird combo of a spirit and a trap that I'm not sure I like or not.

Plant growth: when plants are considered fully grown and are no longer growing seeds, they then become growing plants. For the first 1/3 of the plant's life, it affects only those adjacent to it. The next 2/3 it has grown enough to affect those in nearby range. And for the last third of it's life it has the range of in the area.

Wish you had put this into your above post.

In this way the plants are diffferent because as time goes by, their range extends. This could make creating escapes over bridges and protection for key pvp players more valuable. This is still a work in progress, and I'm goin to edit the first post to add in skills right now.

I don't like the expanding range too much, although I realize they are growing, don't know how large they grow should be.

Now that I'm done, I'd just like to say that I wouldn't be critiquing this so much if I didn't think it was worth it. (Psst. It's a compliment )

shifting shadows · Jan 04, 2007, 02:43 AM // 02:43

OMG OMG OMG I can't read all that! AARRGH!!

And btw, I didn't lose my temper just to clarify. I get sarcastic that's about it. Sarcasm=funny Sorry if you thought I was raging. I just don't tend to take people seriously if it seems like they aren't taking me seriously.

Can't heal seeds no.

Possible that the health amount should be related to attribute level. Makes it a little more balanced. Armor is always 60 though.

That and spawning. Be honest. It's useless for a minion master. With spawning the have about the same amount of health as a primary necro since they are lower level, but the necromancer's does more damage. So no one uses that. Ranger spirits die so fast no matter what the health is it really doesn't matter for that either. If my scythe is doing 150 dmg to a spirit, it's not going to last. Spawning=useless for anything but ritualist spirits. Expertise is useless for elementalists and monks. I don't think either gain any benefit from it since all of their skills are spells. Correct me if I'm wrong. Strength is also useless for any spellcaster, as is critical strikes. A staff critical doesn't do much damage. And a paragon's primary is also useless for anyone without shouts. There are many primaries that are useless sometimes. And it's entirely possible for a spinoff to be made on seeds in the future if it ever was implemented, so that it would affect more than one class.

I won't go into names. They are up to personal preference and interpretation.

It enchants the seeds you plant. So if you plant something then it gets health regeneration automatically. It doesn't give health regen to the ones you have already planted, nor it does it give you health regen.

Thorns are visible. Think of it as a visible trap that can be easily destroyed. I believe that makes up for it being powerful. It would never find appeal in pvp unless you were facing an IWAY team since they would have to step into it to destroy it. And IWAY is more or less destroyed. So it's basically something that would be there to lure foolish enemies not paying attention to the terrain. So to answer your questions, yes it is visible, it has a long vulnerable time and is mainly there as a way to force enemies to move into certain places. It is easily destroyed, and only the truly stupid would step into it (or enemy AI trying to run away).

Wiskit Swarm, again has a limited range. It also deals very little damage. Also look at things like recharge before judging. If it were spammable it would be overpowered. But think of how the skills would work if actually used in Guild Wars. I notice that this is where you lack in your deductions. You merely look at the description and say that it is extremely overpowered. Think for a moment then of how it would work. First it needs to have conditions placed to activate it. Then it can only remove one condition from allies, and then it can only affect people that are nearby. How often do those conditions occur in Guild Wars? And would it really destroy the game if added in, or add to it?

The beetles still seem overpowered? Ah well, you can't please everyone. Honestly though, they don't activate beast mastery skills so I don't know how you figure it's a replacement. Would be cool to have two beetles and a pet though. Seriously it's not like they are flesh golems. They are more like meat tanks than big damage dealers. And the exploitable corpse is so that necromancers can make use of it.

HAHA I knew someone would have a fit over the Black Roses skill. Yeah, it's made to exploit corpses to create masterless bone fiends. Mainly it's a counter to corpse exploiting minion masters. I think all the questions you asked on that have already been answered or implied with the rules already in place.

All right that's about all I can answer. Look, everyone has opinions on the various skills in game. I actually found someone who said flare was overpowered because of the recharge on it vs the recharge on fireball. No matter how I tweak it, it's not going to be universally accepted. Just ask anyone about ranger interrupts vs mesmer interrupts and you will get a huge argument going in no time about which is better. I know that some of these skills seem overpowered, but that is because I am showing what my idea of the more useful skills would look like. I'm not going to show skills that are fairly useless or are only useful in certain circumstances, so yeah the skills I show will be more useful, thus making it appear as though they are overpowered.

A note on the seeds. Think of them as destroyable traps if you want. They are there mainly as ways to alter the terrain and force enemies into moving one way or another. The fact that they are destroyable just means that with seeds you have the opportunity to use them for more than one purpose. You can either use them to delay your foes slightly or take their attention of you for a moment, or you can use them for defense, or for tactical purposes. No matter what you do, they are easily destroyed, and their vulnerability is what makes them balanced. Look at a ranger's traps. If those traps were visible, and you could destroy them, you would claim they are gimped, and would petition here for a way to increase durability, damage, length of conditions, and perhaps survivability because they would simply be destroyed before they were activated. Seeds are my way of giving a strategist an edge over the tactician. And before posting anymore about very overpowered, which they might be, they haven't yet been tested, try imagining how it would work in the various arenas, pve areas, and gvg battles.

Kai Nui · Jan 04, 2007, 02:56 AM // 02:56

One last question, do you have to step into them to attack them?

actionjack · Jan 04, 2007, 05:07 AM // 05:07

I like adding of the growthrate factor on the plant (where take some time to bud, and than take few more seconds befoe it would grow out in full, which in time, its HP and power would increase as well).

But still don't see much use in them, at least most of use can well be cover by ritualist and traps or even minions....hmm.. maybe as you say.. if they deal more conditional type of damage....

Anyhow.. I do have a question too... what is your inspirational source for this idea?

draxynnic · Jan 05, 2007, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

One last question, do you have to step into them to attack them?

By the sound of it, you probably need to to attack them in melee, but a fire elementalist should have no problem burning them out

.

Two comments:

The armour level for the plants should be variable on attribute. While most of the game is at level 20, remember that not all of the game is at that level. I'd rather not see level 1 Seeders dropping plants that have AL 60...

And as I've stated before, beetles leaving corpses is a balance issue. Consider the effect of combining a Necromancer with a Seeder - the Necromancer can simply use the Seeder as an infinite corpse generator. A long recharge on the beetles may help prevent this, but a necromancer with Jagged Bones can keep a swarm up for as long as they can keep up with putting the latter on their critters. Hence my objection to summonables with corpses. If it makes you feel better, introduce something that happens when they die that explains why they don't leave corpses - for instance, perhaps on death they burst and splatter a toxin on adjacent foes that inflicts Weakness for 1..3 seconds.