Curse

jayce · Jan 04, 2007, 07:46 AM // 07:46

by now, im sure that anet is well aware of server limits/loads/etc. and with the wonderful job they have done with guild wars in general, i was wondering how difficult would it be to create only one explorable area that is different from the normal explorable areas that we are currently accustom to. this one server does not have to service hundreds or thousands of players, but a much smaller number, as if it was a test server. if i had to guess at the number of players at once, then i'd say no more than 1/4 the limit size of a single district at an outpost or town. to keep things interesting, this server should probably not support a party group and mobs (1 - x in numbers per group) in this area should spawn and respawn at random after a set time (10 - x minutes) upon death. players entering this area should perhaps spawn at random points throughout the area too. if the server is full, any player wishing to join can simply wait their turn in a first come first serve line. well, thats enough for now. im just curious as to if this could be done. it would be something new that i would very much like to see. just walking along and run into another player on the fly that needs assistance in taking down one enemy or two. then i can go on about my merry way. or perhaps im the one that needs the assistance, lol. i know that there could be potential problems with this if it ever came to light. but like any problem, they can also be solved. im just trying to keep it simple right now for feedback purposes.

Fallen Hunter · Jan 04, 2007, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Hmm, interesting idea. Although I do like this idea, it looks to me like another "we want a free WoW" type suggestion.

This would be very interesting, and fit in with the current PvE philosophy, if it was implemented in PvP.

threedices · Jan 04, 2007, 09:33 AM // 09:33

I don't know if I grasp it right, but it sounds like going back to the old MMORPG style, where mobs spawn randomly and people walk around to kill them and possible compete to kill certain mob. If that's the case, I would guess that's a no-no from the dev team if this applies to PVE, unless the target is not mobs.

However, if it's a game arena it might be a different story. something like free-for-all dodgeball/dragon arena or something else? but then again it looses the GW-spirit where team work and cooperation is a big part of this game

I still don't understand why people even after playing GW would still want a part of those lots-of-people-walk-around-killing-random-spawned-mobs type of MMORPG and especially endless brainless repeated killings

lightblade · Jan 04, 2007, 09:53 AM // 09:53

the point of instance is to reduce server load. this is why we only have one server to connect to. non-instanced area will need multiple servers, therefore people from different server cant play together

Vinraith · Jan 04, 2007, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by threedices

I still don't understand why people even after playing GW would still want a part of those lots-of-people-walk-around-killing-random-spawned-mobs type of MMORPG and especially endless brainless repeated killings

Yeah, I don't get that either. I love the GW model, I love the instancing, and personally I wouldn't play WoW or a WoW-type game even if it were free for this very reason. The last thing on Earth I'd want to see is GW changed in this way.

/notsigned with extreme prejudice

freekedoutfish · Jan 04, 2007, 05:00 PM // 17:00

If it wasnt for these issues, I would probably like the idea:

(assuming you want an instance where people fight and collect and do quests - otherwise your just talking about making one massive city)

1. Everyone will move there there and the rest of the game will empty.
2. Major lag issues. Look at the lag produced over xmas by everyone being in LA or Kam.
3. How do creatures respawn? or happens when all creatures are killed and objects are found and quests are completed?
4. What strength creatures would you use? would it be purely high end or low end?
5. How would drops work if you have countless dozens of people all trying to kill the same thing? the drop rate would be near 0.
6. How would you create enough creatures and drop and chests for everyone?
7. It would be WoW pure and simple.
8. How would you handle heroes and henches?
9. Could you use henches or would it all be in PUGs or individually?

I would just keep the system as it is.

jayce · Jan 04, 2007, 11:47 PM // 23:47

to Fallen Hunter: i dont even know what WOW's gameplay is like. but i know its a subscription based game. there is only one game that i will pay to play and that will be Star Trek Online when it comes out

to threedices: im not familar with the old style MMORPG. i never played one. but if GW is the new style MMORPG, then it is my first. i actually come from the First Person Shooter background myself. i bought the first GW because i was told that it was competition based game, but not like a FPS. the funny part is, i actually like the non-competition part of the game or the PVE more than the PVP. maybe because its new to me. this topic is something that i thought could be interesting. a sort of random arena for the PVE, one thats doesn't end so to speak

to lightblade: i wasn't aware that you would need multiple servers to accomplish something like this, which is why i asked if a single server or district or whatever could be set aside for this. the most to a party is 8, 16 if you count the faction's cooperative mission which really isn't a lot of people. once again i can only speak from a FPS perspective as im used to playing with 32 - 150 players in one server. i just thought that if you throw in some AI, you'd combined the best of my both worlds, it could really be fun

to freekedoutfish: i guess it in a sense would be like a city. but i wouldn't say a massive one. i know a full district can get pretty crowded, which is why thought that no more than 1/4 the size of district should do the job. i don't think that everyone would move there, unless the rewards there are too tempting to pass up. don't think lag would be a real concern with just one district with a set limit of people that can join at one time. about the creature respawns. i saw one mission, i think called Nahpui Quarter in factions, where the mobs would respawn. strength of creatures i guess would be no different than what we are already used to seeing. maybe it could also depend on where you go while in this area, with a lower level creatures closer to one of the random spawn points (safer area) and higher level creatures the deeper you go into this area (hostile area). drop rate - don't think it would be near 0. in fact, i dont see anything wrong with the way drops are now. shouldn't have to change that. creating creatures, drops and chests for everyone is not a problem. this systems is already in place. the only noticeable change would be that creatures would respawn. WoW - once again, i have no knowledge about the gameplay of that game. i just know that its not free to play. heroes and henches - there would be none. this area would be entirely random, from the mobs encountered, to players joining, even where you as a player spawn when you join. this way, you never know what you are getting yourself into, and with who you are getting yourself into with. the only constant should be you would always spawn in a quote/unquote safe area, and that the creatures would eventually respawn randomly i might add. so you kill one creature and decided to camp there and wait for the next one. when it does spawn, chances are likely that it would be an entirely different creature with different skill setup.

current system - there is not a thing wrong with that i would change. i too would keep it as it is. what i am asking to see if its possible and how difficult would it be to add this type of a single explorable area, not a game changing alteration

mega_jamie · Jan 05, 2007, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Nahpui Quarter mobs do not respawn, the mobs spawn at set time / location trigger.

theres a big difference in coding between telling a mob to pop up when team reaches X location, then another mob after Y seconds, then another after Z seconds. Than to saying a mob should respawn every 20 mins.

Fair enough it would be dooable, infact the PvE snowball arena had solo-snow men respawning, so it is possible.

As someone mentioned drops, I think what they are getting at is that you will have up to 50 or more people in this area, what if 50 people all attack enemy Bob the Ghettoninja and he goes down, who does Bob drop his green for, thats 50 possible people in a 1 in 30 (or w/e) chance to drop a green, thats not much chance. You can't have a "killing blow" method of drops, as support builds would be screwed.

Lag, would happen, fast connection may prevent lag in that respect, but considering Cantha messed up people's FPS and laged them, and even 12 v 12 with skill animations cna be too much for some computers which can just run GW, I do think lag would be a problem.

tbh, GW doesnt need this, and it coulnd't be implemented without causing alot of grief for alot of people and so /notsigned form me.

Antheus · Jan 05, 2007, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Server loads are not linear, but exponential. Usually, it's n^2. So, going from 10 to 20 players is not the same as going from 200 to 210. This load is demonstrated both server, as well as clientside. During the wintersday finale, the instances were completely lagged out (high ping, rubberbanding, low FPS, crashes). That is your GW's population limit.

The OPs proposal is to still have instances, but rather than 1 party per instance, it's x players per instance, and you join first with open spots.

This brings up the following issues:
- GW's combat model isn't suited for this type of combat. It's not a hack-and-slash where you just go in and kill stuff. It's prepared strategy-tactics-build aproach, where you prepare for an area (mob placement and their movement patters are insanely crucial - just remember why double agro kills groups. Every mob spawn is hand balanced to be playable).
- Random spawns don't work in GW. You either camp them to oblivion, park a MM on them, put wards down, MS them, anything. They are completely useless. If two spawn too close, they'll wipe you, and camp you at rez shrine. RoT masters quests are a good example of that.
- Engine doesn't support multiple teams. There's still plenty of bugs regarding loot assignements and alliances in certain maps. GWs implementation simply can't supporty multi-factional engagement, nor it ever will. Instances make sure it's not needed. Consider the inability to resurrect a party member from other group in Vizunah (engine limitation).
- What's the point? What benefit would you get? Look at the massive complaints over Vizunah square. Think build elitism is bad? It's even worse when you're stuck with useless team mates you can't pick. All these issues never apear, but Vizunah Square is perfect example of everything that can go wrong.
- Queues? People can't be bothered to spend 2 minutes making a group, and they should wait in queue?

Wrong game. Period. It's not about whether the idea is good or bad, but it's irrelevant and not applicable. You don't go asking for grind in Quake, you don't ask for instant 60 characters in WoW, so don't ask for such aproach in GW. It simply doesn't work.

jayce · Jan 05, 2007, 02:50 AM // 02:50

to Antheus: thanks for the more tech friendly answer.