Curse

Definite Integral · Jan 14, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

I notice all the complaints about rank elitism in HA and TA, and I hate rank elitism too. But the real problem is the mentality of players. Here's why.

High ranked players do not want noobs on their team, and it is understandable why. Would you really want your HA group spamming Charge and Primal Rage?

No matter how teams are selected, you will always have one problem or another. For example:

In Randomly selected teams, like RA, Aspenwood, or Quarry, there is a major problem with griefers, leechers, leavers, and leechbots. The problem is that there is no way to stop them from getting on your team because the randomizer could pick these losers up. Note that in TA and HA, leeches and griefers do not get very far as they will disgust many groups and find themselves excluded quickly.

In areas where you select your teams you have problems with Elitism and Chapter Discrimination. A team may kick you for not running SF/GG or RaO Thumper "But It's Not Fair! I Don't Have Nightfall!" I believe that the overpowering of Nightfall skills makes it hard for anyone without it at a disadvantage and this must be fixed.
Other times, you may get kicked for not having the correct rank. People only want the best players, they just dont understand that rank isn't everything.

Personally I think the best system is in Alliance Battles. It is part team based part random. So leeches are much rarer(must have 4 leeches to make a leech team) and elitism doesnt work either. Let's say 1 team is r9+ and running Searing Flameway or "Eyeway".(made that up by myself) This does not stop two unranked teams from joining them in alliance battles. So this makes elitism here pointless.

My solution to this whole mess is..... Make ALL arenas like alliance battles.
Heroes Ascent should be 2 randomly chosen teams of 3 people each. TA should be 2 randomly chosen teams of 2 people each. This would eliminate elitism.

Juicey Shake · Jan 14, 2007, 07:27 PM // 19:27

ok, simply put:

rank elitism will always exist is some way, because, as you said, people do not want noobs on their team. in HA where it is possible to hold the altar for hours with an extremely good, experienced team, you are not going to acheive this with someone who doesn't even know the mechanics of capturing an altar.

so if people don't have friends they can tombs which, they just look for other people who have similiar experience markers as them, in this case rank~

making HA 3 / 3 combining of random people would kill it more than making it 6 man ever did, sorry but that is a horrible idea and ruins the point of it

Definite Integral · Jan 14, 2007, 07:29 PM // 19:29

I got the idea of 3/3 teams in HA from the 4/4/4 teams in Alliance Battles. I never see leeches or elitists or griefers in Alliance Battles, so I thought this might fix both problems.

And if you still want a place for elitists there's always GvG.

Juicey Shake · Jan 14, 2007, 08:00 PM // 20:00

yes but alliance battles is a whole different system than HA

in HA you slowly advance as you win. in AB, you win, and it's done.

a 3/3 team in HA would make all of the decent people have no interest in going there anymore, because they wouldn't be able to play as effeciently as they used to. HA requires synergy between players, to some extent. AB does not, between the groups. it does help though

Franco Power · Jan 14, 2007, 08:11 PM // 20:11

/not signed .. uggh no way ...

Omg I cant believe this idea was actually suggested, this is so retarded,Im not even going to explain why.

group 1 r6+ actually want to have some competitive and friendly fun

ZB/infuse
Grenth derv
SS warder

Group 2 bored pve'ers or dont have favor at the moment and need to do something

Mending Wammo
B/p ranger
Me/e fast nuker

/not signed
/not signed

Bloodied Blade · Jan 14, 2007, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Ultimatum

/not signed .. uggh no way ...

Omg I cant believe this idea was actually suggested, this is so retarded,Im not even going to explain why.

group 1 r6+ actually want to have some competitive and friendly fun

ZB/infuse
Grenth derv
SS warder

Group 2 bored pve'ers or dont have favor at the moment and need to do something

Mending Wammo
B/p ranger
Me/e fast nuker

/not signed
/not signed

Gotta agree with Ultimatum...I can't believe this was even suggested...

/not signed

Definite Integral · Jan 14, 2007, 08:17 PM // 20:17

It's supposed to take the fun out of elitism. You could argue that a team of 3 Mending Wammos could ruin your team but then again it could ruin the opposition's day.

Mourne · Jan 14, 2007, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Someone feeling left out in pvp?

People have the right to choose whatever team they want, so if they only want ranked people, get over it. Hell, I'm very experienced in TA so I can get easy parties there, but in HA, I am still a lowly rank 3, so I even have trouble there. I don't complain though, that's what friends are for.

Aejorii · Jan 14, 2007, 08:36 PM // 20:36

You know what's funny? My "N" button is greater than a lot of people.

edit: I chuckled a bit.

Deleet · Jan 14, 2007, 08:49 PM // 20:49

This is your most retarded post Definite Integral. No personal offense, but let's take a look at it:

Quote:

No matter how teams are selected, you will always have one problem or another. For example:

People who whine about rank elitism, should join a pvp guild and make friends. I know, i once whined a bit over it, until i realized that i just had to make some friends.

Quote:

In Randomly selected teams, like RA, Aspenwood, or Quarry, there is a major problem with griefers, leechers, leavers, and leechbots. The problem is that there is no way to stop them from getting on your team because the randomizer could pick these losers up. Note that in TA and HA, leeches and griefers do not get very far as they will disgust many groups and find themselves excluded quickly.

Major problem only in FA with leechers.

Quote:

In areas where you select your teams you have problems with Elitism and Chapter Discrimination. A team may kick you for not running SF/GG or RaO Thumper "But It's Not Fair! I Don't Have Nightfall!" I believe that the overpowering of Nightfall skills makes it hard for anyone without it at a disadvantage and this must be fixed.
Other times, you may get kicked for not having the correct rank. People only want the best players, they just dont understand that rank isn't everything.

* You know that it's meant to be competive right? - And that includes that you get to choose most if not all of the settings for your team. If you're going to be competive, you need to be able to customize. This includes that you can setup each member as the leader/team wants, so if you cannot run said build, you have no reason to be in the party.

* Nightfall skills are not overpowered compared to older skills(in the big view).

* Most people tend to play to win, even if it's not the primary goal, winning is always fun. You cannot win unless you have a decent team. Then, as we all know, we have a limited amount of time at our hands. Which means that we cannot/don't want to waste time, testing every player to see whether or not he is a good player. That is why rank is there. Rank does not garantie a good player. but since most people learn from experience, it gives a higher chance of a good player.

Quote:

Personally I think the best system is in Alliance Battles. It is part team based part random. So leeches are much rarer(must have 4 leeches to make a leech team) and elitism doesnt work either. Let's say 1 team is r9+ and running Searing Flameway or "Eyeway".(made that up by myself) This does not stop two unranked teams from joining them in alliance battles. So this makes elitism here pointless.

Learn above exlanation about competive games.

Quote:

My solution to this whole mess is..... Make ALL arenas like alliance battles.
Heroes Ascent should be 2 randomly chosen teams of 3 people each. TA should be 2 randomly chosen teams of 2 people each. This would eliminate elitism.

See Legendary Ultimatum's post. Good example.

Kakumei · Jan 14, 2007, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Wanting to win = elitism?

I don't get it.

BahamutKaiser · Jan 14, 2007, 09:41 PM // 21:41

I don't know why people always want to break something and replace it, when you could simply come up with an alternative option.

Removing something others are enjoying is always a last resort, any suggestion which implies that something exsisting needs to be replaced when an alternative can be provided is a bad one.

Not to mention that we already have alternatives, and your trying to remove something others enjoy and replace it with something we already have elsewhere.