Curse

Gregslot · Dec 13, 2006, 11:39 AM // 11:39

Ok, first of all i know that there are a lot of people here who play 55 monks, or dual Uw, or 5 man Fow and etc, so most of these people are going to think "Omfg u r a fu* n00b there is nothing worng with soloing uw, stfu n00b". But i dont care

. So i hope that the inteligent people read this.

Ok, we all know that playing with Underworld with only 1-2 players or doing Fissure of Woe with 5 man makes ectos and shard have a price higher then it should be, and we all know that and know why. So, if we cant "nerf" all builds whenever we see one specific class playing alone getting all the goods, i was thinking in one definite solution and then i thought about this:
Limiting drops for teams who have less players then it should be, and increasing drops for those how have the max numberof players.
For example, if i decide to go to UW with 4 players, then my teams drop rate would be 50%, since the maximum number of players is 8. But if i decide to go with 8, we would have 100% drop rate, plus another 20% for having a full team (120%).
I think by this, would put a definite end to solo builds, because people wouldnt want to pay 1,000 gold to enter UW and have a 12,5% of drop rate. It would be more interesting to have a full team, wich you could be the lucky man to have these 20% as a bonus. And also, it would incentivate players to play with other people, as it should be.
Now one thing that would be bad about this is that people leave at the middle of the game, but i thought about that. The drop rate law would be applied 5 to 10 minutes before you enter, and counting the numer of players that are in your team at that time, and would never decrease/increase. Because i know how persistent people can be, some of the 55 monks would get heroes at the beggining or add some random people that would eventually leave or die and have the aditional 20% for themselves. And noone would like to wait 10 minutes to start a run or would notice that the monk with 55 hp isnt planning to play until you die.

I think its better to create a little program for this then to keep on trying to nerf farming

count your fingers · Dec 13, 2006, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Guess again. I tend to hit up ToPK/FoW as a b/p group so 120% drop rate there = gg. Nice idea though ^^

Oh, and btw... 5-10mins before you enter? How would it know that you're still not getting a party together then?

*enter UW, tell heroes to stay, 55 away*. Or even, start seeing people selling themselves to enter with a 55 to up party numbers, then leave ^^

Just my 2 cents. Nice idea though.

Joker · Dec 13, 2006, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

..........So i hope that the inteligent people read this.

Unlike the person that wrote this.........

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

Ok, we all know that playing with Underworld with only 1-2 players or doing Fissure of Woe with 5 man makes ectos and shard have a price higher then it should be, and we all know that and know why.

If you mean it causes inflation then yes you are correct, however at the same time it also drops the price as well. Because the market becomes flooded with shards/ectos and as we all know, once supply starts to exceede demand prices go down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

So, if we cant "nerf" all builds whenever we see one specific class playing alone getting all the goods, i was thinking in one definite solution and then i thought about this:
Limiting drops for teams who have less players then it should be, and increasing drops for those how have the max numberof players.
For example, if i decide to go to UW with 4 players, then my teams drop rate would be 50%, since the maximum number of players is 8. But if i decide to go with 8, we would have 100% drop rate, plus another 20% for having a full team (120%).
I think by this, would put a definite end to solo builds, because people wouldnt want to pay 1,000 gold to enter UW and have a 12,5% of drop rate. It would be more interesting to have a full team, wich you could be the lucky man to have these 20% as a bonus. And also, it would incentivate players to play with other people, as it should be.
Now one thing that would be bad about this is that people leave at the middle of the game, but i thought about that. The drop rate law would be applied 5 to 10 minutes before you enter, and counting the numer of players that are in your team at that time, and would never decrease/increase. Because i know how persistent people can be, some of the 55 monks would get heroes at the beggining or add some random people that would eventually leave or die and have the aditional 20% for themselves. And noone would like to wait 10 minutes to start a run or would notice that the monk with 55 hp isnt planning to play until you die.

I think its better to create a little program for this then to keep on trying to nerf farming

While this IS a good idea, it has only one flaw I can see. What happens when demand exceedes supply in an already severely over inflated market? Prices go way up!

Not to mention the extra lag all those calculations would cause. "But hey its only like one or two extra. How can that cause lag?" Remember that this would have to be done for each and every instance of every zone in the game multiple times. So times that one or two extra calculations by several thousand.

Before you ask. Yes I AM a programmer so I actually have an idea of what I am talking about.

milan · Dec 13, 2006, 12:15 PM // 12:15

I'm at risk of mirroring what the above poster just said but something about this idea confuses me.

You reduce supply to the market and you expect prices to drop?

Anyhow my main point is wTF!!!!!111 NOOB! Nerf my build!!!!1. Ok that's out of the way. Seeing as your main point for this is to reduce prices on ecto and shards and you haven't shown a shred of evidence that this would be the case with a reduced supply I think the point is moot.

However without messing with the drop rate which I would *assume* would be considerable work, if you wanted to prevent 2/3 man teams entering just make it so that you couldn't enter without a full team. Of course this would lead to what the above poster mentioned, people selling themselves to join and leave once inside.

Gregslot · Dec 13, 2006, 12:23 PM // 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joker

Unlike the person that wrote this.........

While this IS a good idea, it has only one flaw I can see. What happens when demand exceedes supply in an already severely over inflated market? Prices go way up!

Not to mention the extra lag all those calculations would cause. "But hey its only like one or two extra. How can that cause lag?" Remember that this would have to be done for each and every instance of every zone in the game multiple times. So times that one or two extra calculations by several thousand.

Before you ask. Yes I AM a programmer so I actually have an idea of what I am talking about.

And what if they added the 'program' to the map itself? Its not like they need to create a program linked to the server that is linked to every map that is created.

count your fingers · Dec 13, 2006, 12:33 PM // 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

And what if they added the 'program' to the map itself? Its not like they need to create a program linked to the server that is linked to every map that is created.

You'd still end up with the same lag issue I imagine.

Or do you just want this in UW/FoW? Otherwise it'd occur *everywhere*. Even Pre-Searing

. Just imagine how many thousands of people are playing at one time, ya?

aron searle · Dec 13, 2006, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

So i hope that the inteligent people read this.

Id like to read your suggestion, but i 55 so im to stupid to read it.

Antheus · Dec 13, 2006, 12:44 PM // 12:44

"I don't know how to solo farm, nerf solo builds..."

It comes down to skill. Going anywhere into high-end areas with some build (55 is just one of many solo builds) is much more difficult than going in with 8 people. Hence, the rewards are higher.

And besides, what about warriors farming FoW? They don't run 55. What about various geo tanks. What about 135 and 605 builds (once again, not monks). What about my ritualist farming the Tyrian and Elonian explorable areas. 4-man SF builds? 4-man trapping builds? 55 monk is already mostly dead or simply too inefficient.

This falls very much in line with the skill and competitive concept of GW. Go with full group and do it the easy way, or go solo, and push the boundaries of skills and builds.

Wtf Its A Monk · Dec 13, 2006, 01:00 PM // 13:00

I personally don't see why people even care how others spend there time. I see this thread as a "I Can't get a group......So I think I will try and ruin all the people who solos fun" You know what they say "To each their own" so why ruin something that gives a lot of people the most satisfication while playing guildwars. LET PEOPLE PLAY HOW THEY WANT TO PLAY. or mabey you want guildwars to turn communist instead of capitalist

Pro-Monk · Dec 13, 2006, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Perhaps before going into detail about how to "lower" ecto/shard prices, the OP should present a reasonable agrument of why they are too high. And since the OP states that ecto/shard prices are "higher than they should be", they could tell Anet what the price should actually be.

The OP further states, "And also, it would incentivate players to play with other people, as it should be." Perhaps the OP could elaborate on this as well. Obviously, two-man or five-man teams are playing with "other people". Without more elboration, one could surmise that the OP is simply complaining that they can't find a full party to join in UW/FoW.

By the way, an "intelligent" reader would want the issue(s) better defined "prior" to having solutions offered.

Sir Mad · Dec 13, 2006, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Actually I find the price of shards VERY low - but that's maybe just me.

To try to be constructive, I see one thing in this thread that shouldn't be ignored: the non-existence of 8 men groups in UW. You won't find a PuG for that, but maybe 1st-timers. Of course there are still guildies and friends, but still. Heroes help a lot but would it be possible to do more? I don't /sign the idea of the OP but what else could we find to solve this problem? Letting players use henchies?

Gregslot · Dec 13, 2006, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by count your fingers

You'd still end up with the same lag issue I imagine.

Or do you just want this in UW/FoW? Otherwise it'd occur *everywhere*. Even Pre-Searing

. Just imagine how many thousands of people are playing at one time, ya?

Hummm... thinking this way maybe at the elite areas only.
Fissure of Woe, Underworld (both), Sorrow's Furnace, The Deep, Urgoz's Warren, Domain of Anguish and the other that are about to come

Anarion Silverhand · Dec 13, 2006, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Seeing as the 55 monk, 5-man FoW teams and 9-man Deep teams aren't exploiting any bugs, I don't see how this is needed. As things are now, player skill is rewarded. Increased chance of getting greens because of fewer players and such.

However, this is your opinion and you're entitled to it.

Let's not make a flame fest out of this. Discuss

-Anarion

Mentalist Ellie · Dec 13, 2006, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Ecto has been 7-8K on average for months, shards are pretty much the same. Other than gems, most materials haven't fluctuated much at all in the last six months. Explain how the market is overpriced.

What happens when 2-4 people form a full group using heroes, or even real people, and get their heroes killed, or have the extra members leave? Woohoo, +20% drops for the ones that remain. Cool!

Simply put, play the game YOU want, and leave others to play it their way.

daraaksii · Dec 13, 2006, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Shards for 2,4k? Thats a high price? Hm. That's not the farmers fault.

BahamutKaiser · Dec 13, 2006, 04:24 PM // 16:24

I don't see how higher production though easier means raises prices......

Simple law of supply and demand, if more is being produced than sold, the price goes down. So all this, "We know that Solos and proficient farmers are making the price go up" Bull Crap is a lie.

The only problem with Solo monks and other reduced party farming teams is the lack of opportunity for certain classes. People like to pretend that certain classes are balanced just because they can produce reasonable results in certain situations, but in many situations they just suck, and this has been overlooked for quite some time. If certain classes only accel at a fraction of the functions other classes offer, they are not balanced.

Stop trying to nerf everything that works, and start rallying to fix everything that doesn't, crappy skills, ineffective classes, crappy costs and frequencies. There is rarely a need for a nerf, there is an imbalanced, but it should be remedied on the weak end not the strong end. Thats like saying "lets weaken these links in the chain so the whole chain will be equal....", There is no point in sabatoging what already works, improving what doesn't work is where the attention needs to be.

With the addition of Paragon teams are making a strong comeback, the multiplied power of a large group by 1 or 2 paragons is exponetial, now teams can plow through much more difficult odds. Even with this, if a party can stand to use a few less players, and PLAY HARDER, than they deserve the increased fortune they WORK FOR because of it.

Sol_Vie · Dec 13, 2006, 04:38 PM // 16:38

I don't 55 or really farm much at all. I only farm when I need some quick cash for armor or something along those lines. Even so, I think this is a pretty bad idea.

Guild Wars is supposed to be based off of skill. Granted, 55ing and some other farming builds don't use this skill, but you can't deny that there are players who solo who only use skill (example? How about Witte Was or Racthoh). I think punishing 55ers and those skilled farmers alike is a bad idea.

Besides, the argument with inflation is valid. The more these 55ers bring in ecto, the lower the price is. The only thing they're raising the price of is rare items which have become a lot easier to craft with the advent of inscriptions.

Patrick Smit · Dec 13, 2006, 06:30 PM // 18:30

I have basically no clue what the motivation of Anet is to "nerf" farming. I know that farming is good for us consumers as things get more abundant and cheaper. Time will be spent more effectively if u don't have to coordinate the setup/assaults of a team.

I farmed with an earth ele for money as a main reason. The gold items u got were nice but not essential. Also im not on armor freak, I prefer to have all stuff unlocked and be able to go anywhere with any character to help out if needed. Usually I revert to pvp after finishing all that.

Recently I tried to farm some trolls, but they have weird behavior which is not in line with the game mechanics. They get a few yards away and start regenerating (without the use of a skill), while for any other monster or player that is impossible. Some nerfs to go against bots are in my opinion ok, but should be approached in a different way, while nerfing farming is not not understood by me.

count your fingers · Dec 13, 2006, 06:42 PM // 18:42

I'd guess that health regen you're describing is the same as if you haven't been in combat for a while (see here for more info)

NesQik · Dec 13, 2006, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mentalist Ellie

Simply put, play the game YOU want, and leave others to play it their way.

yeah its only way to have fun, its nothig wrong when some ppl going to "farm" ectos u can go too. why complicate this? Ecto is on 8-9k and this is a good price for this rare material.

peace.