Curse

Sagius Truthbarron · Feb 01, 2007, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Its obvious that this game is made so that its necessary for you to buy the next expansion pack to play it, or even own all of them. Is this what Anet invisioned when they talked about a fully balanced game, something similar to Magic the Gathering?

Want to PvE on a necro? Don't own Prophecies? I'm sorry, you can't, Spiteful Spirit is the only skill people let you use in high end PvE on a necro. Have prophecies, but no Factions? No reckless haste. Prepare to get booted by Elitist Wamos.

Want to play PvP and don't have Nightfall? You're screwed. Every build in pvp uses Nightfall. If you decide you're going to prot monk and can get an HA group that will take RC instead of Zealous Benediction? Well, too bad, because Shield of Absorption is so important to every group out there that they will never let you substitute anything for it.

I get that they want their product promoted, but why can't they balance the chapters so that having those extra skills simply gives more options?

Why can't all the skills be balanced and useable for PvP and PvE? It also has a lot to do with making people more open minded (like that will ever happen).
But I'm just fedup with not being able to play the two games I spent $100 on, just because I don't want to spend another $50.

Any comments, anyone?

Lonesamurai · Feb 01, 2007, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Yes, theres only two reasons to buy the expansions...

1/. you want more to do with your PvE characters and want to see more PvE content

2/. you play gvG or othr PvP and want to stay competitive (of which you can buy a cheaper PvP unlock pack if you don't PvE at all)

the chapters are there for another reason... They keep a steady(ish) stream of income for ANet to keep pumping out more content to us and to keep the servers going so we can carry on playing... Ok, if they gave up then the servers would probably stay under NCSoft, but still, I WANT more content!

If you want to play the new content, buy it, if you don't don't buy it! Skills are balanced for PvP play though! Thats never going to change as PvP is competitive and remember, if skills change, they change for the enemy AI aswell in PvE... Or are you a farmer yet again whining about not being able to farm cos ANet nerfed your farming build?

Sagius Truthbarron · Feb 01, 2007, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

Yes, theres only two reasons to buy the expansions...

1/. you want more to do with your PvE characters and want to see more PvE content

2/. you play gvG or othr PvP and want to stay competitive (of which you can buy a cheaper PvP unlock pack if you don't PvE at all)

the chapters are there for another reason... They keep a steady(ish) stream of income for ANet to keep pumping out more content to us and to keep the servers going so we can carry on playing... Ok, if they gave up then the servers would probably stay under NCSoft, but still, I WANT more content!

If you want to play the new content, buy it, if you don't don't buy it! Skills are balanced for PvP play though! Thats never going to change as PvP is competitive and remember, if skills change, they change for the enemy AI aswell in PvE... Or are you a farmer yet again whining about not being able to farm cos ANet nerfed your farming build?

Its nothing to do with wanting more content, the skills are crappily balanced and the players are so elitist that its impossible to play the game without getting the newest chapter, or having every one of them.

Maybe I just want to play the old content WITHOUT HAVING TO GET THE NEW CONTENT.

Lonesamurai · Feb 01, 2007, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

Maybe I just want to play the old content WITHOUT HAVING TO GET THE NEW CONTENT.

So whats stopping you? the old content is there, will ALWAYS be there and is never gonna go away

Acidic Won · Feb 01, 2007, 03:44 PM // 15:44

The simple fact is Anet wants us, the consumers, to buy each and every new addition to Guild Wars. They do this by offering new skills, which ofcourse will most likely be better, and new PvE garbage. So if you want to stay on top of your game and get better you would have to buy the new additions or else you will be in the dust.

Dougal Kronik · Feb 01, 2007, 03:52 PM // 15:52

I feel that the "encouragement" to buy new campaigns is an excellent marketing strategy for an online game with no monthly fees.

I'll be buying all future campaigns.

Lonesamurai · Feb 01, 2007, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik

I feel that the "encouragement" to buy new campaigns is an excellent marketing strategy for an online game with no monthly fees.

I'll be buying all future campaigns.

Agreed, any game i've only spent £80 on that gives me 3,000+ hours so far is worth spending more on

Thomas.knbk · Feb 01, 2007, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Ofcource you're going to need new campaigns to be competitive in PvP. In PvP you're going to want the best build possible, and yeah. That's going to require skills from all 3 campaigns. That's not a marketing strategy, that's game balance. It'd suck if you could be completely competitive without Prophecies wouldn't it? That would sort of impy that prophecies skills suck. You don't want that.
As for PvE, you don't need to play with other people. What makes you think so?

Sagius Truthbarron · Feb 01, 2007, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

Ofcource you're going to need new campaigns to be competitive in PvP. In PvP you're going to want the best build possible, and yeah. That's going to require skills from all 3 campaigns. That's not a marketing strategy, that's game balance. It'd suck if you could be completely competitive without Prophecies wouldn't it? That would sort of impy that prophecies skills suck. You don't want that.
As for PvE, you don't need to play with other people. What makes you think so?

Well, whatever happend to build diversity? Why do the new skills have to meet criteria to enhance existing builds so well that they become the only option for running that build? RaO, for example. Why can't each chapter create its own new builds, within themselves, and also by mixing and matching with other chapters?

Its more like the new chapters give certain old builds more power, and making some old builds worthless.

Also, I was refering to higher end PvE, like UW and FoW. Which is really all I'm interested in for PvE. I don't really have a problem with that though, I'm speaking in general. For example, most people that run UW now want a "famine ranger". Now, I have to say that Factions was a pretty bad chapter. The PvE was lame, not many skills people use except for the new classes. You going to buy a chapter just to go to UW?

But as time goes on these problems will increase, because several chapters will be out, people will want you to be running the Chapters 1/2/3/5/7 signet build in Grueble's Gulch because its "omg pwnage" there or whatever. I don't see why you should have all these various chapters to be competitive, when being competitive is going to cost you a good 400$.

Think if you're a new player, buying Guild Wars for the first time and people expect you to own all the campaings to enter one specific place. "OMG PROT MONK WITHOUT 'HOBOB'S CONFINEMENT'?!?!"

Dougal Kronik · Feb 01, 2007, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Build diversity - what you are talking about is cookie cutter builds that some players have no idea that there are alternatives.

Groups went into the UW and FoW before Factions and Nightfall came out. It's only that some skills make these runs more efficient.

You could go into the UW and FoW with a group of only Tyrian characters with only Tyrian skills and be successful.

And if you are a new player - play your character through the entire game before going into the "elite" areas. Learn you skills and how to play with a party. You don't need to be competitive in PvE, just cooperative.

Lonesamurai · Feb 01, 2007, 05:38 PM // 17:38

besides, if your a competitive Tournament player, your going to need the latest chapter as the tournament idea (at the moment, although I don't see it changing) is to have tournaments only use current chapter and Core skills...

Now THAT is a balance idea!

Valshia · Feb 01, 2007, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Gate of Madness anyone? Where the "gotta have" skill is a Factions elite, and the second fiddle skills are Prophecies? At least the only truly critical skill, Wild Blow, is a Core skill.

I just think you shouldn't have to buy all 3 chapters to play through the P/E of one of them.

lightblade · Feb 01, 2007, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Not really, ...my mesmer never used any Nightfall skills but can still stay competitive. My Assassin's PvE skills includes none of the Nightfall skills.
Mo/A still works without any Nightfall skills.

Relying on skills from only 1 chapter may not be enough, but you don't need to rely on 3 chapter of skills to stay competitive.

lennymon · Feb 01, 2007, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

some stuff...
No reckless haste. Prepare to get booted by Elitist Wamos.

I think I just had an accident in my pants... while alot of skills may do different specific things, they all do one of 3 things (ok 4 if you count the completely worthless skills) directly damage the opponent, indirect support (hexes/conditions which reduce opponents damage output, mitigate party damage etc..., and direct support (healing, bipping). In short there are many many ways to skin a dire warthog. If getting booted by wammos is a problem for you find a guild is my advice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valshia

Gate of Madness anyone? Where the "gotta have" skill is a Factions elite, and the second fiddle skills are Prophecies? At least the only truly critical skill, Wild Blow, is a Core skill.

I just think you shouldn't have to buy all 3 chapters to play through the P/E of one of them.

see above, but while its kinda easier with stuff from other chapters... I've wanded shiro to death without ANY skill usage...

has anyone else ever finished nightfall with a rit? a sin? how about a newly made paragon finishing nf? it still works.

Mystic- · Feb 01, 2007, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Remember that paying for new content is ANETs ONLY source of income.. other then advertising etc. We pay no monthly fee so, you pay around $50 for 3,000 worth of content? It would be worth far more, but it is NOT. If you have financial difficulties and do not wish to purchase another chapter of Guild Wars then don't. I don't see why you have to complain about it. The new chapters bring new skills with them and that's how it has always/will always be. If you don't like it, tough. Deal with it just don't cry...

Antheus · Feb 01, 2007, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

Well, whatever happend to build diversity? Why do the new skills have to meet criteria to enhance existing builds so well that they become the only option for running that build? RaO, for example. Why can't each chapter create its own new builds, within themselves, and also by mixing and matching with other chapters?

Your first problem:
- You're expecting skill in PUGs

Your second problem:
- You're using PUGs instead of heroes

Don't have Nightfall? Sorry, then there's nothing you can do about it.

GW currently offers unprecedented build diversity through hero system. With 3 fully equipped heroes you will outclass any PUG. Gone are the days of echo nuking, SSing, MMing and stance tanking. Now you can really kick back in PvE and play in style.

For everything else, there's friends and guildies.

DoA/FoW/UW and Elite missions are exempt from this simply due difficulty of the area. You need certain skills there in order to run certain builds. But then again, you need skilled players there in the first place, and PUGs are last choice again for that.

Ferret · Feb 02, 2007, 04:19 PM // 16:19

A possible soultion would be to have access to an end of game skill trainer (a bit like the guy in the Fire Isles in Prophecies) that offers every non-elite skill for each chapter to date.

In Prophecies, as mentioned, we have one.
In Factions, you could have one that includes all skills from chpt 1 & 2.
In Nightfall, you could have one that includes skills from ALL chapts.

It's not really all that unbalancing to do this. You still have to spend your hard earned gold and skill points to get them, but now you dont have to trudge your fighter created in Factions all the way through the laborious grind of prophecies just to get to the guy in the Fire Isles.

I know it is easy for the Core Skills as if you have a Guild Hall with skill trainer, you can get all of these anyway. Maybe this could be another option, to have an advanced GUILD HALL skill trainer that offers skills from other chapters, but this could be unbalancing with low-level characters getting high-power skills from the start.

As for Elite skills, well these ARE elites and there should always be some work required to get them, though it would be nice to see a few more from previous chapters spread into the next.

Just as an additional note, i do want to state that i have actually purchased every new chapter and even the collectors editions, mostly as i want to do the next part of the PvE story (and even really liked Factions, it was my favourite before NF), but i can understand the frustrations of those who dont. I also understand that new chapters are required to pay the bills for ANet.