Curse

WasAGuest · May 05, 2006, 12:26 PM // 12:26

I can't sign for this one because from what I understand about PvP (I don't enjoy that side of the game), allowing PvP only characters into PvE missions will unbalance the competitive game.

PvP characters come with maxed out gear, PvEers still have to hunt around for it (something I enjoy doing). Pitting PvP only against PvE without freely giving them the max gear (at least for the mission) would give the PvP only characters an advantage... at least in my understanding of it. - Which is also why I understand (or have heard as an explanation) the increased drops - so everyone has a beter chance at balanced competition.

If that's not how it works, ignore me.

If those missions were popular during the FPE and not now, I would guess that it was because:

1) everyone wanted to see what they were about
2) there wasn't much else to do (I ran into this)

And for them being empty now:

1) few have gotten there yet (possible)
2) players are trying to get the best gear possible to have an advantage (see above reason to not sign).

Tuoba Hturt Eht · May 06, 2006, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

allowing PvP only characters into PvE missions will unbalance the competitive game

Since when Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry are "Pve missions"?
They are "Competitive Missions".

Quote:

PvP characters come with maxed out gear, PvEers still have to hunt around for it (something I enjoy doing).

There have been an addition of a lot of collecters in Cantha, "maxed out gear" is possible to obtain in PvE now thanks to the many new collectors in Cantha. And yes, I enjoy "hunting" for new gears as well.

Quote:

Pitting PvP only against PvE without freely giving them the max gear (at least for the mission) would give the PvP only characters an advantage...

The question is, would this "advantage" that the PvP only characters is "given" be truely significant enough to turn the tides of the battle?

Let's take a look:
Enchanting mod 20% vs 10%
- Healing Breeze 10s = 12s vs 11s
- Elemental Attunement 45s = 54s vs 49.5s
- Armor of Earth 30s = 36s vs 33s

Besides the above mentioned, we also have:
- Shields with 20% -5 damage received
- Sundering mods with 20% to penetrate 20% armor.

Also taking into consideration are the inherent mods of weapons:
+15% damage while enchanted
+15% damage while in stance
+15% damage while health is above 50%
etc

"Perfect" shields and weapons with max inherent mods are obtainable through the many collectors in Cantha, same goes for staves, rods and off-hand foci.

The only thing the collectors are unable to provide at the moment, are weapon upgrades.

Anyway, the question:
"Will these differences in small percentages significantly affect the outcome of these competitive missions?"

Quote:

players are trying to get the best gear possible to have an advantage (see above reason to not sign).

More the reason to allow PvP only characters to access these missions.
Why waste time hunting for "best gear possible" when I can roll out a PvP only character and jump into the fray immediately?
I believe these areas will be more populated once access for PvP only characters is made available.

MasterDinadan · May 06, 2006, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

PvP characters come with maxed out gear, PvEers still have to hunt around for it (something I enjoy doing). Pitting PvP only against PvE without freely giving them the max gear (at least for the mission) would give the PvP only characters an advantage... at least in my understanding of it. - Which is also why I understand (or have heard as an explanation) the increased drops - so everyone has a beter chance at balanced competition.

RP-only districts would solve this perfectly. I see no problem in allowing PVP characters to all competitive content, as long as RP characters can still access the same content without having to play with PVP characters if they don't want to ;0

Tuoba Hturt Eht · May 07, 2006, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterDinadan

RP-only districts would solve this perfectly. I see no problem in allowing PVP characters to all competitive content, as long as RP characters can still access the same content without having to play with PVP characters if they don't want to ;0

If this is the case, then Roleplaying characters ought to be able to participate with PvP only characters.

Not all Roleplaying characters feel inferior when they are matched up with PvP only characters.

WasAGuest · May 07, 2006, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht

Since when Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry are "Pve missions"?
They are "Competitive Missions".

In that they are only accessable by PvE or RPG characters.

As for the rest of the post, as I said in my original post, which was not an argument, only a reason I wouldn't sign it - no amount of math will change that, I disclaimed myself saying "if that's not how it works, ignore me".

I also don't really care one way or the other as I have no interest in playing either of those missions. I was simply speaking of the mid set that unless it's made fair to all, it shouldn't be allowed.

If everyone can make a PvP character and jump right in and play those, then they should simply be moved to battle isles... that would make it an easy change. Then the PvE characters wanting to play those simply need hop over there to join.

Seems Anet made those missions off of Battle Isle because they (however lightly) fit the story line and thus the PvP characters have no access to them - since the player has to get through the story and get to the point of conflict.

Glitched · May 07, 2006, 02:07 PM // 14:07

1.) Yes, the faction rewards are not worth it for the amount of time put into the mission.

2.) No, these are pve competitive missions. Access should only be given to pve characters.

3.) Yes, the individual faction rewards would be very helpful.

Dougal Kronik · May 08, 2006, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Increase the Faction rewards:
/signed

Increase the individual Faction rewards:
/signed

AhuraMazda · May 08, 2006, 11:04 PM // 23:04

The OP has a point if they are 8v8 competitive missions. This would be the first pvp competition where no pvp only characters could access. PvE and PvP characters alike can enter HA, TA, RA, GH etc. etc.

I would say give it time and raise this issue. I dont think a.net, like when prophecies was released, wants everyone to spend the majority of their time sitting at these outposts with pvp only characters, instead of working through the storyline etc.

But thats the only justification for the way things are, and if these outposts are competitive missions, they need to be accessible to PvP only characters sooner rather than later.

So, I will sign this after I reach it with a single PvE character. Seems fair.

Infact, why not just have these outposts unlockable for your ACCOUNT via PvE?

Win - Win.

Tuoba Hturt Eht · May 13, 2006, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Thread revival.
Why? Because the Luxon / Kurzick faction rewards offered in these 2 mission are pathetic.

A runner can earn 400 Luxon faction in 2 minutes per run doing the "The Supply Lines (Luxon)" quest over and over again.

In fact, all the Luxon / Kurzick faction rewards from competitve missions:
- Alliance Battles
- Fort Aspenwood
- Jade Quarry
are simply pathetic, compared to repeatable quests.

Yes, these missions are fun to play, since you are playing with other live human being players.

Notice how Cavalon needs more than 4 mil luxon factions to control now?
Black Blades probably have hundreds of runners farming "The Supplies Line(Luxon)" quest.

The rewards from these competitive missions should be increased significantly, or else people would just resort to farming repeatble quests for experience, gold and faction.

Feedback, in any form, be it positive or negative, is much appreciated.
Thank you for your time.
Cheers.

mariano · May 13, 2006, 10:55 AM // 10:55

As someone pointed in some other place... may be, there is some lack of flexibility in GW with respect some things... I sign the idea of PvP only characters being able to enter into some PvE grounds. May be these two PvP missions and some other places like the Under World and the FoW (why?, because these two PvE places are dependent upon having one's region the favor of the gods, which is earned by characters playing in the HA) might be accesible for PvP only characters.

I wish to insist here -insist: I have done it several times- that I feel a lack of in-game communication means between players and guilds, so that guilds have it hard to grow up and players have it hard to find a suitable guild. I think that improving guilds is the key to make these battle grounds and elite mission more accesible and interesting.

Vermilion Okeanos · May 13, 2006, 01:28 PM // 13:28

I believe something need to be done, but I can't agree with everything that was suggested.

While whether pvp-only char issue, I think it is an odd ball. If pvp char has access to these, what would happen to RA/TA/HA? They would be dead, simple. The random 8 people team are just much more appealing than RA/TA and especially HA (since HA is so retardly harsh on getting a decent team), the majority of the play for fun would be gone.

On another hand, if things proceed well, the players will divide evenly, in the point of view of people with faction. For the non-faction, their number will decrease greatly.

Something need to be done, whatever it may be... hopfully for the better.

Feng Leung · May 13, 2006, 02:01 PM // 14:01

What i find interesting is that Fort Aspenwood/Jade Quarry are way more fun then alliance battles. With the random chaos that i enjoyed very much from FPE.

/signed for more faction and pvp char access

Tuoba Hturt Eht · May 16, 2006, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Updated original post to include the recent votes.

Thank you for all your replies.
Your feedbacks are invaluable and is much appreciated.

Feedback, in any form, be it positive or negative, is much appreciated.
Thank you for your time.
Cheers.

Prince Daniel · May 16, 2006, 11:01 AM // 11:01

I would like to be able to use my pvp guy in those places, currently we can only fight to the south which makes the border imbalanced. There is hardly anyone in the places and i dont blame them, the reward is pathetic. I would like to see faction gained for kills, like at tombs, or an increase in faction gained for winning.

torquemada · May 16, 2006, 11:41 AM // 11:41

/notsigned

I like it the way it is (though not many players...yet?). Much more fun then faction farming, IMO. It is arguable for PvP players to be able to participate...I'd say let this area stay for PvE chars, but seeing the unbalance of classes there, I'm really not sure.

Trouveur · May 16, 2006, 01:18 PM // 13:18

More importantly it would be a great idea to let us form our own party of eight.

I don't see the point of guilds and now alliances if we can not even play thoses new missions with our guildmates and allies...

Spike is very unliky since in theses misisons we need to split.

SpeedyKQ · May 16, 2006, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Bump up the rewards:
/signed

Allow PVP characters:
/signed

Individual rewards for kills:
/notsigned - unfair to support characters

Elena · May 16, 2006, 03:07 PM // 15:07

/signed allow pvp players

/signed greater faction rewards

Loquetus · May 16, 2006, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

For example:
(numbers used as reference, subject to change)
Indiviual Faction rewards:
- 5 Kurick / Luxon faction for each Luxon / Kurzick NPC killed
- 10 Kurick / Luxon faction for each Luxon / Kurzick PC killed
- 15 Kurick / Luxon faction for each Luxon Turtle / Kurzick Juggernaught killed
- 20 Kurick / Luxon faction for each Luxon / Kurzick strategic point you helped to capture

not signed ever thought about monks?
unless they are going to heal a target to the point it dies (which i doubt) this is a bad idea as it favours some classes and completely ignores other classes and builds

support classes like ritualists, interupt mesmers and monks won't gain as much faction as a silly wammo can earn
and really i don't want to see more wammo's (already enough of those)

so:
1. Increase the faction rewards earned in these Missions.
yes cause it's not worth playing to earn faction atm

2. Allow PvP only characters to participate in these Missions
no it's a pve area, unless you can only join the side your alliance is bound with (so not both sides)

3. Implement individual faction rewards:
hell no (see above)

4. Allow them to be unlockable for your ACCOUNT via PvE.
no

upier · May 16, 2006, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Bigger rewards would be amazing but i am having so much fun playing Fort that the reward almost doesnt matter - although earning 1k per battle would be pretty amazing. But the reward in Jade would have to be increased since i havent played it since the game was realeased.
Btw - anyone knows why Fort sometimes gives 520 faction to the wining party?