Curse

Tuoba Hturt Eht · May 05, 2006, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Reference Threads:
08-20-2006 | Curse You | Jade Quarry in need of a fix
08-10-2006 | Miss Innocent | Can we PLEASE let PvP characters into the PvP missions in Cantha?
07-25-2006 | Ira Blinks | Aspenwood improvements (not about leechers)
07-24-2006 | Konrow | PvP Access to Aspenwood
07-19-2006 | Raiin Maker | How to stop AFK Faction Leeching.
07-21-2006 | Skuld | Do something about Aspenwood end cutscene..
06-16-2006 | RTSFirebat | The Improved Jade Quarry
06-15-2006 | Mr Wolfmaster | Fort aspenwood/jade quarry cinima
06-13-2006 | Kaldor Meshekal | Jade Quarry Update
06-12-2006 | beanerman_99 | Increase Faction reward at Jade Quarry
06-12-2006 | unknown1 | AFkers in Fort aspenwood
06-09-2006 | Lordhelmos | Petition for a Rewards System in Aspenwood and Jade Quarry Missions.
05-31-2006 | Maria The Princess | new Title: The Quitter
06-08-2006 | lansid_drakken | They have anti-farm code, now what about anti-quit and anti-leech code?
06-03-2006 | AlyssaMarcia | longer ignore list
05-18-2006 | Zubey | Make Aspenwood/Quarry rewards dynamic
06-05-2006| Im Perfect U Aint | fort aspenwood!!
05-07-2006 | Tuoba Hturt Eht | L.Totems, I.Commendation, M.Credits, E.Requisition for SKILLS, SOC, FACTIONS
06-04-2006 | generik | Giving totems/requisitions for victories in Fort Asphenwood and other battles?
06-01-2006 | Aerial Stormshadow | Anet, please listen (closed thread)
05-30-2006 | TheOneAndOnlyX | Taking this personal?
05-29-2006 | Unkillable Cat | New leech bot
05-30-2006 | Allmightybob | Permament Death Exploit in Fort Aspenwood
05-25-2006 | Vermilion Okeanos | Need an official word.
05-21-2006 | Ira Blinks | [Petition] Remove faction reward for the losing side in Aspenwood
05-23-2006 | Ira Blinks | Official response to leechers problem.
05-23-2006 | X God Of Fire X | fort aspenwood vs. jade quarry
05-29-2006 | Sai Rith | Improve Fort Aspenwood!!!!!!
05-22-2006 | X God Of Fire X | why not jade quarry?
05-23-2006 | Esprit | Jade Quarry - Where are all the players?
05-21-2006 | Ken Dei | Those with complaints work together...

Commentary:
An issue regarding Jade Quarry was brought up recently, check the first link in the list of reference threads for more detailed information.

PvP-only characters are now able to enter these missions, THANK YOU ANET!

Currently, the known issues with these mission are:
- let us skip the cutscene if we click "skip", the others still can watch
(cutscene seems to cease to exist, I am unsure of when this happened, but THANK YOU ANET!)
- pathetic faction reward awarded at end of battle
(rewards improved with 15th June Update, THANK YOU ANET)
(THANK YOU ANET for the double factions weekend!)
- serious issue of leechers aka AFKers
- permanent death exploit using Unyielding Aura (EXPLOIT FIXED, THANK YOU ANET)
- somewhat serious issue of quiters, aka sabotuers

Various Suggestions to Improve Jade Quarry (by Curse You)
=================================
Corpse Teleportation Exploit
- some NPCs killed near the base
- necromancer uses Necrotic Transversal / Consume Corpse to exit the base prematurely

Suggested Fix:
- make the NPCs invunerable
- move the NPCs
- "blackout" all players until the game starts.
- make the NPCs spawn a few seconds after the match begins.

Quarries have no healing
- single ranger with the Elite Barrage is able to kill the entire quarry without taking any damage
- just sit up on the cliff and shoot away

Suggested Fix:
- add a SINGLE NPC monk to each Quarry
- ranger would also have to use interupts to prevent the monk from being effective

Jade Carriers
- quarries will spawn a Jade carrier (Turtle or Juggernaught)
- they will proceed to transport jade
- when the Quarry is claimed by the opposing side
- they will return to the corresponding base.
- when the quarry is reclaimed
- the carrier will then have to walk all the way to the mine
- then back to claim the jade
- this causes them to take twice as long

Suggested Fix:
- could be fixed by "teleporting" the carrier to the Quarry when it is reclaimed
- it may be odd, but then again, they do appear out of nowhere at the start

Jade Carriers getting stuck
- have heard of the Jade carriers sometimes getting stuck
- they cannot continue to collect Jade.

Suggested Fix:
- redo the pathing
- consider previous idea

Sites too easy to claim
- Quarries and Guard posts seem rather easy to take over
- just have to kill all the NPCs, and it's yours

Suggested Fix:
- could be fixed by making the posts captured in a similar way to the ones in Alliance Battles
- only if you out number them, you can keep/take the outpost

Various Suggested Ideas to improve both Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry
================================================== ======
0. The Ban List (by GrendelScout1)
Refer the example for an idea of how this would work:
1. John know Mary is a leecher, AFKer
2. John adds Mary to his Ban List
3. John clicks "Enter Mission" in any random arenas
4. John will never be placed in the same team with Mary

5. Other players who did not add Mary to their Ban List could be teamed up with Mary

6. Friends of John who know and trust his judgement also place Mary in thier respective Ban Lists.
7. John and his friends live happily ever after.

1. Significantly increase faction rewards earned in these Missions.
At the moment, faction rewards offered at the end of these missions are simply not worth their time. Please increase the faction rewards, significantly.

1a. Equipment Requisitions, Luxon Totems as rewards (by generik)
Besides the Kurzick / Luxon Faction earned, also hand out rewards to the victorious team.

1b. Make Rewards Dynamic (by Zubey)
Dynamically adjust the faction awards for these two missions in one of the following ways:

A) Have the less-popular one increment its winner's award for each minute it's idle. e.g. If there hasn't been a battle for five minutes, the award goes up 100 points.

B) Have an NPC in each staging area make periodic announcements like "The [Luxons/Kurzicks] are beating us back at [the quarry/Fort Aspenwood]! The Council of [Elders/Nobles] has asked for help there". The NPC is essentially announcing which mission will give bonus faction for a period of time -- the game could assign this randomly or dynamically based on use.

1c. Individual actions add up to total team faction rewards awarded at end of battle
NPC kills, PC kills, point captures, any of these actions performed by anyone of the 8 members in the team will add up to the total factions awarded at the end of the battle.
Individual actions such as these:
- time used to complete mission (higher score for faster completion)
- non player characters killed
- player characters killed
- damage done to target foes (spike, degen)
- target other allies health healed (regen)
- gate repairs done
- target other allies' damage reduced (protection monks and spirits)
- etc
will help add up to the total amount of Kurzick / Luxon faction awarded at the end of the battle.

2. Allow PvP-only characters to participate in these Missions
Barring access to PvP-only characters to maps that are competitive in nature does not seem justified. Please allow access for PvP-only characters and these missions might actually be much much more populated.
(PvP-only characters are now able to enter these missions, THANK YOU ANET!)

2a. Allow these outposts to be account-unlockable (suggested by AhuraMazda)
Once a character has reached these outposts, it will be unlocked and access will be available for their PvP only characters.
(PvP-only characters are now able to enter these missions, THANK YOU ANET!)

3. Remove the "Random Arena" concept of these competitive missions, replace with "compulsary enter mission in teams of 4 players" like the current way Alliance Battles work
Why this? Recently I saw a thread with a heated arguement regarding this issue. I believe this implementation would resolve the issue of leechers or AFKers (people who join the mission but do nothing) in these competitive missions.

Why teams of 4 and not teams of 8? Well, if it is to be teams of 8, the time required to form a team might be longer. Forming teams of 4 ought to be much quicker.

If the leechers still dare to join in as a team of 4 leechers or AFKers, I believe ANET will need to revise the Rules of Conduct and allow us to report these leechers or AFKers.

NOTE: Party screen will show all 8 players.

4. Amend the Rules of Conduct, allow us to report the repeating offenders
If we keep seeing the same AFKers over and over again in these maps, I believe we must be given the right to report these players who are ruining the gaming experience of other players.

4a. Quiters must be dealt with
Here's a story:
1. Jack is a Kurzick, who frequently plays in the Fort Aspenwood competitive mission
2. Jack is not happy that his Kurzick team gets defeated by the Luxon team every time

3. Jack decides to sabotage the Luxon team
4. Jack travels to Luxon's Fort Aspenwood
5. Jack clicks Enter Mission

6. Jack quits before the battle has even started
7. Jack continues to this for many times

Now here comes the questions:
1. Is Jack be allowed to do this?

But, it is a known fact that, there is no real solution to this problem of quiters.

5. Allow players to skip the cinematic
1. We won the battle
2. The cinematic starts
3. I press "Skip" button
4. The cinematic is skipped
5. I get zoned back into Fort Aspenwood or Jade Quarry

Please implement this, ANET.

(cinematics seems to cease to exist, THANK YOU ANET)

=================

Discuss.

Terra Xin · May 05, 2006, 03:29 AM // 03:29

/notsigned

I raised 16k faction over FPE (wasted 10k on amber, to which i gave away anyway) most of it was from doing competitive missions for Kurzick, namely Jade Quarry.

I would like to see the amount of faction raised... but you're getting about the same amount as if you were doing RA, except the battle is naturally much longer.

Give this game another week or to, as hundreds of people have already stated, give it time and the places will fill up eventually.

kalvon · May 05, 2006, 03:40 AM // 03:40

/kinda signed
I'd like to use pvp chars with this. Haven't done this in retail, but I did this in the beta and wanted to use a pvp char.

Tuoba Hturt Eht · May 05, 2006, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Regarding "Jade Quarry",

I've managed to try it out just now, sure I had fun, but the factions awarded at the end of the battle was extremely unsatisfactory.

The battle ended roughly after 5 minutes, I was on the Kurzick team, Luxons won 10 : 2, or 3, I can't remember.

The Luxon players was awarded 300 Luxon factions, while the Kurzick players who lost the battle was only awarded 60 Kurzick factions.

5 minutes for 300 faction if I win the battle?
This is not enough for me.

I suggest that individual factions be awarded for players who scored kills, who helped captured a strategic point, and a team faction awarded to the whole team at the end of the battle.

For example:
(numbers used as reference, subject to change)
Indiviual Faction rewards:
- 5 Kurick / Luxon faction for each Luxon / Kurzick NPC killed
- 10 Kurick / Luxon faction for each Luxon / Kurzick PC killed
- 15 Kurick / Luxon faction for each Luxon Turtle / Kurzick Juggernaught killed
- 20 Kurick / Luxon faction for each Luxon / Kurzick strategic point you helped to capture

The above ideas might as well be implemented into the 12 vs 12 Alliance Battles too.

Laibeus Lord · May 05, 2006, 04:22 AM // 04:22

/signed for:

PvP Characters must have access to Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry to make it more lively and useful.
Rewards up it a little. This way people don't just flock in the Alliance Battles. These two towns are good and right now its empty most of the time.

KelvinC · May 05, 2006, 04:25 AM // 04:25

PvP characters access to those areas /signed

Song Rui · May 05, 2006, 04:30 AM // 04:30

I don't know how much faction is received because I haven't had a chance to try these places out due to lack of players. But a definite sign for the pvp characters having access.

MasterDinadan · May 05, 2006, 04:32 AM // 04:32

You can access Alliance battles with a PVP character IF your guild/alliance has declared support for one of the Factions.

My guild has just aligned with Luxon, so now I just talk to the Luxon ambassador in our guild hall and she takes my PVP character to an Alliance battle.

Now the drawback, it doesn't seem like she lets you choose what area to go. She just picks one. Maybe she figures out which one needs more players? Like if Aspenwood has more Kurzick players than she's likely to send Luxon people there? Dunno

She kept sending me to Saltspray something-or-other. Which didn't bother me (except that I'm not overly fond of the map) but it could be an issue if you are trying to meet up with a friend for Alliance battles. I suppose you could always group up in the guild hall and THEN talk to the ambassador to travel as a group...

Song Rui · May 05, 2006, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterDinadan

You can access Alliance battles with a PVP character IF your guild/alliance has declared support for one of the Factions.

My guild has just aligned with Luxon, so now I just talk to the Luxon ambassador in our guild hall and she takes my PVP character to an Alliance battle.

Now the drawback, it doesn't seem like she lets you choose what area to go. She just picks one. Maybe she figures out which one needs more players? Like if Aspenwood has more Kurzick players than she's likely to send Luxon people there? Dunno

She kept sending me to Saltspray something-or-other. Which didn't bother me (except that I'm not overly fond of the map) but it could be an issue if you are trying to meet up with a friend for Alliance battles. I suppose you could always group up in the guild hall and THEN talk to the ambassador to travel as a group...

Those are alliance battles. This is different.

Dougal Kronik · May 05, 2006, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterDinadan

You can access Alliance battles with a PVP character IF your guild/alliance has declared support for one of the Factions.

My guild has just aligned with Luxon, so now I just talk to the Luxon ambassador in our guild hall and she takes my PVP character to an Alliance battle.

Now the drawback, it doesn't seem like she lets you choose what area to go. She just picks one. Maybe she figures out which one needs more players? Like if Aspenwood has more Kurzick players than she's likely to send Luxon people there? Dunno

She kept sending me to Saltspray something-or-other. Which didn't bother me (except that I'm not overly fond of the map) but it could be an issue if you are trying to meet up with a friend for Alliance battles. I suppose you could always group up in the guild hall and THEN talk to the ambassador to travel as a group...

Need some more information, is it confirmed that PvP can or can not access Alliance Missions. If yes, all of them or only random ones, or only Saltspray.

Fantus · May 05, 2006, 06:50 AM // 06:50

/signed.

600 faction on a win seems to be a bit low compared to other means which are also more reliable (quests always guarantee you a "win")

Also, I don't see a reason why a PvP char shouldn't have access there. Personally I never use PvP chars for anything, but I can see that people would like to bring them there.

Tuoba Hturt Eht · May 05, 2006, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Original post edited and updated.
Polls now broken down into 3 separate polls.
Cast your votes again! Rwar!

Reply to question regarding PvP only characters and Alliance Battles:
PvP only characters can join Alliance Battles through their Guild Halls.
However, the Guild Leader must pleadge allegience to either Kurzick or Luxon side first before that is allowed.

About the following 4 competitive missions:
- Fort Aspenwood (Kurzick)
- Fort Aspenwood (Luxon)
- Jade Quarry (Kurzick)
- Jade Quarry (Luxon)

To my knowledge, PvP only characters have no means of accessing the above 4 "Competitive Missions", ever.

I consider this a broken feature, since PvP only characters are supposed to be able to participate in "Competitive Missions".

MasterDinadan · May 05, 2006, 07:55 AM // 07:55

My apologies... I thought that Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry WERE alliance battles, like Saltspray...
So, if I was mistaken, disregard my previous post.

So I have to ask... what exactly are Aspenwood and Jade Quarry if they aren't like other Alliance battles??

Tuoba Hturt Eht · May 05, 2006, 08:16 AM // 08:16

In reply to MasterDinadan's question:

Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry are "8 vs 8 random arenas with team objectives"

Random Arena, because you cannot decide who your team mates are.
Team objectives, because there are objectives you need to acomplish in order to win the battle.

The objectives mostly involve
- capturing strategic points in the map
- killing an important NPC
- defending an important NPC
- etc

Dougal Kronik · May 05, 2006, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Then
/not signed

I like the aspect that all the characters in those missions are RolePlay and not cookie cutter builds or FoTM.

Tuoba Hturt Eht · May 05, 2006, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik

I like the aspect that all the characters in those missions are RolePlay

This, I can understand.

But the fact remains that both Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry are considered as "Competitive Missions".
PvP only characters are supposed to be able to participate in all forms of "Competitive Missions", not just the ones limited to the Battle Isles.

Quote:

and not cookie cutter builds or FoTM.

Well, not all PvP only characters are necessarily cookie cutter or Flavour of the Month builds.
In fact, what's stopping roleplaying characters from using cooking cutter or Flavour of the Month builds?

MasterDinadan · May 05, 2006, 09:45 AM // 09:45

My feelings are kind of mixed now.

I don't like that you can earn faction on PVP characters and then spend it on items for RP characters. I don't think playing a PVP character should give your RP character any kind of advantage...

But that's already happening with Alliance battles, so I don't see much harm in letting them play competitive missions... As long as there aren't any transferable rewards (like gold... experience is obviously excusable)

Obviously, there are people who like the idea of a PVP environment existing solely for RP characters, to avoid cookie-cutter builds and the like (it would be harder to find a blood spike group for example if every player that was participating actually had to get an RP necro to level 20 and find all the runes and such... instead of just spending some faction for the necessary stuff and then rolling a PVP char with little effort)
Maybe they should just add "RP Districts" to all existing PVP and competitive missions, so players who wished to play in an RP only environment could do so. Of course, PVP and RP characters would still have access to regular districts, so people can take their RP characters into battle with or against PVP players if they still want to...

Sidra · May 05, 2006, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterDinadan

My feelings are kind of mixed now.

I don't like that you can earn faction on PVP characters and then spend it on items for RP characters. I don't think playing a PVP character should give your RP character any kind of advantage...

Have you ever been to the Temple of Ages?

I'll sign off on #1, I'd like to see a bit larger rewards if I'm going to put my time into this game, otherwise I'll just 12v12 all day. Not signed on #2. PvP characters with perfect weapons up against RP characters does not sound fun at all.

Laibeus Lord · May 05, 2006, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterDinadan

You can access Alliance battles with a PVP character IF your guild/alliance has declared support for one of the Factions.

My guild has just aligned with Luxon, so now I just talk to the Luxon ambassador in our guild hall and she takes my PVP character to an Alliance battle.

Now the drawback, it doesn't seem like she lets you choose what area to go. She just picks one. Maybe she figures out which one needs more players? Like if Aspenwood has more Kurzick players than she's likely to send Luxon people there? Dunno

She kept sending me to Saltspray something-or-other. Which didn't bother me (except that I'm not overly fond of the map) but it could be an issue if you are trying to meet up with a friend for Alliance battles. I suppose you could always group up in the guild hall and THEN talk to the ambassador to travel as a group...

to explain the Alliance Battles.
Alliance Battle is the PvP Arena (if you want to call it that) which can't be teleported to from the map and is only accessible via a guild's guild hall.
The maps chosen depends on one factor, the current position of the "borderline". Press 'M' and you will see the position of the borderline.

There are an estimated 7-11 Alliance Battle Maps. 1 Neutral which is Saltspray Beach and the rest equally divided between the two sides (Kurzicks and Luxons).

Alliance Battle is accessible for PvP-only characters while
Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry aren't.

And again /sign that the PvP Characters must be able to access Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry, that way it won't be a ghost town.

^_^ Hope that helps clear what Alliance Battle is vs Fort Aspenwood & Jade Quarry

BigTru · May 05, 2006, 12:19 PM // 12:19

/signed