Curse

System_Crush · Feb 16, 2007, 08:12 PM // 20:12

@Pwny Ride and other people that bring up really really old threads
I suppurt thread necromancy when you un-dead a thread with a posetive comment/suggestion.
If all you have to say is "It's a neco", why say it?
Just let it drop off the 4th page of the forum, it must have been close anyways...

In that part BK may be right that you are a <random word of profanity>.

Yes I know by posting this I am bumping the thread, and thusly not practicing what I preach, but as saying this will have the same effect as spamming "Stop Spamming!!11!eleven" I guess GW has a large croud of people that would act exactly the same way

[M]agna_[C]arta · Feb 16, 2007, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Ooohhh, Better name for "Frozen Fire" why not "Blue Fire" or "Ice Flame"^^.

uberpwnage · Feb 24, 2007, 12:50 AM // 00:50

I came. I saw. I read.

The whole thing that needs to be changed is the Seduction line. Not because of it being offensive or anything. But because of the fact that it's abusable.

If you make hexes that work on a gender-specific basis, you'd better... well... not do that at all. Why?

Arena Net never wanted to truly promote your character being created perfectly with perfect weapons and whatnot type of elitism. But that's what this would do. It would cause unbelievable gender discrimination. One week, it'd be "GLF girlz" because the vast majority is male. The next week, EVERYONE will have made female characters to replace their males since males are so popular, so it'd go to "GLF boyz".

Come on. We don't want this. Plus, some of the problems have been addressed in this thread already; for instance, how do you seduce an aatxe?

Another thing is the obvious too-much-like-necromancer bit. Think about it this way: Almost all new classes are similar to a class combination from before. I.E. Ritualist is N/Mo, Dervish is W/Mo, Paragon is also some kind of crazy W/Mo, and Assassins are probably... W/R?

We let Ritualist slide even though it's close to necromancer. One necromancer look-alike is enough. Besides, women already have "seductive" enough armor. Have you seen female 15k bonelace?

Ultimately, it's a good idea; if you can somehow squeeze out a few of the very close necromancer ties, that is.

Until then, "OMG N/R WANABE LOL"

Sven788 · Feb 24, 2007, 12:23 PM // 12:23

This isn't WoW, I don't like it.

BahamutKaiser · Mar 01, 2007, 07:43 PM // 19:43

The seduction magics involve a alternating effects, if the perfered gender for the spell isn't fulfilled for the spell, it defects to a generic alternate effect which is simularly usefull and effective.

I think it is significantly enriching because most of the time people attack enemy foes based on class significance and enemy stability. By adding a gender oriented feature it creates opportunities to capitolize on gender vulnerability. Perhaps this seems unorthodox, but the same situations exsist with having a different race as a character like Zhed. Because supposedly Disease only spreads to like creatures, and if you had a party full of different species, disease wouldn't spread through your team.

Whether that is acceptable or not is debatable, it could work, but I could also change it. I'm don't promote same sex seduction or homosexual themes, but seduction magic could be developed to work on any foe......... and just be developed with original features.

And yeah, fools will always assume something is covered by another class without reading the idea, but beside the fact that the identity is a vampire, there is absolutely nothing related to necromancer at all. Necromancer has several vampiric skills, they don't work remotely simular to Stalker skills, and they arn't the only vampiric features in the game. The appearance is vastly different, Necromancers look like corpse brides and liches, Stalkers look like ecentric nobility and mystic figures.

Assuming that Necromancer is the only resource for Vampiric abilities is like saying that nobody but elementist can use fire magic, well fire magic is covered by Elementist, Dervish can't use any elemental magic......... and we can remove deadly swarm too. I really have no sympathy for nomial stigmatism.

When you can explain to me how a necromancer can pull of any single ability stalker offers or how any armor offered to necromancer is going to appear even remotely like the Stalkers I've designed, I might actually redevelope the idea to working standards. But I already did so much work that this idea is beyond so many ignroant and bias claims...........

I appreciate that you read the idea, proof that someone who actually knows what the idea is can't really disapprove. I challenge you to try something further. Imagine using this character in the game and how the features would operate wile playing, than tell me again how much it matters that someone beforehand thought it was a necromancer, just like all the people who had nothing to say about Assassin being a W/R after it was available.

-Pluto- · Mar 02, 2007, 01:57 AM // 01:57

A few problems I see with this class:

1. Seduction is just bad. In pvp, it causes one gender to be better than another, depending on which one is most prevalent. If more female characters are being played, people will have to bring male Stalkers. Having to take this factor in to consideration when creating a character would simply irritate me. I simply don't think the idea would be fun at all.

Keep gender cosmetic please. Focusing on the hex manipulation and the defensive support skills is fine, just please none of this opposite gender crap.

2. Vampirism attribute seems broken for pvp. People are going to use it as a snare, but unlike Shadow Prison, ice hexes, or Cripple, you can't remove it. The only thing you can do is use a stance canceling skill, and other than all the dervishes running wild blow, these are not commonly used. If they don't have a stance canceling ability, the stalker can just snare the flag runner in gvg or the relic runner in HA virtually forever.

In fact, it being a stance makes it even more imbalanced than just being hard to remove. Stances have instant cast times, which makes them uninteruptable. At least with Water Eles, you can use holy veil to remove the snare or a ranger with savage and distracting shots to interupt the snare.

KD ending the effect helps. They are more common than stance breaking skills. Most are conditional or expensive though, and still don't do much to help balance the feeding mechanic.

BahamutKaiser · Mar 02, 2007, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Actually, stance breaking and knockdown are available to a vast majority of the classes in the game. Their popularity is understated because of a lack in neccessity, if neccessary, Assassins, Warriors, and Paragons could break the stance readily with their skills, and Warrior, Elementist, Assassin, Monk, Mesmer and even Ritualist have knockdown skills. And whats more, there are also Knockdown counters effective to defend against Feeding as well, making the wealth of defensive options more than extremely prevalent to meet the task.

As if Knockdown skills arn't bread and butter features of PvP which are used regularly and profusely, they are certainly common enough to meet the threat of a Feeder.

In comparison to a knockdown, a foe can be Disabled completely, immobilized and incure additional knockdown triggered damage wile being vulnerable to enemy attack in general for 2-4 seconds, including melee and distance application.

In a Feeding situation it requires melee, like all melee capabilities it doesn't require a casting time because it already cost the difficulty of approaching your foe, and touch spells actually work as you foe moves away from you, they only require you to touch your foe to start the spell. Feeding last from 5 to 10 seconds, but doesn't disable many of the foes skills, also immobilizes the feeder, and prevents allies from attacking the foe. It has better immobility, less disability, and no spike application.

There are plenty of opportunities to combat this feature, and as if features like shouts and chants are being covered properly by counters, this one already has dozens, literally dozens of counters already available in the game.

It is a superbly balanced equation which you will realize if you study it a little better, a very powerful feature with very prevalent weaknesses, beside that, additional features can be added to exsisting and its partner class to combat the abilities available to the Stalker. The increased significance of stance breaking techniques is only an improvement, making obscure counters more common and balacing exsisting options.

The seduction attribute, it offers abilities to impare foes of opposite and same sex, it just does it in different ways. Heads the foe attacks 50% slower, Tails the foe Misses 50% more, read the idea a little closer until you fully understand it. Situational weakness is less relavent than AoE effectiveness, it would be plenty effective, but the effects may not be intended.

-Pluto- · Mar 04, 2007, 12:09 AM // 00:09

There are only three attacks that end stances. That's it. Just three. Wild Blow, Wild throw, and Wild Strike. I've seen wild throw on some paragons, and I've seen wild blow on dervishes. They're not too commonly seen, nor do I think people should be forced to have to bring them to counter an overly powerful mechanic.

Knockdowns are usually conditional. Right now, the only Knockdown skill I'd consider myself guaranteed to see in GvG is bull's strike. It's a nice KD skill, but it's useless to combat feeding. The only options I see for KDing a guy feeding is Hammer warriors (who are going to be spending a lot of adrenaline AND are going to be hurting their ally a lot to do it), shock (probably on a warrior), or gale. Gale isn't run as much as it used to be.

5-10 seconds just says I was right. That's too long, espcially if you chain a couple of them together. Unless they have a high recharge time too, a Feeder could single-handedly stop their runner from capping, probably with only two skills, indefinately. If the other team doesn't have a hammer warrior to camp you the whole game (the brought a dragon slash and an eviscerate warrior instead), they're not going to do much about it.

The way to balance it would be to make the feeder vulnerable. If he gets to bold with his feeding, you should be able to just spike him down. Killing someone can counter anything, but +armor and transfering damage to the ally makes killing him during his feeding nearly impossible. Get rid of the damage transfer and make the feeding armor just a normal inscription of +10 armor while feeding. That would make it still very very good for mitigating damage from overextending warriors, but not quite as broken.

Quote:

The seduction attribute, it offers abilities to impare foes of opposite and same sex, it just does it in different ways. Heads the foe attacks 50% slower, Tails the foe Misses 50% more, read the idea a little closer until you fully understand it. Situational weakness is less relavent than AoE effectiveness, it would be plenty effective, but the effects may not be intended.

Are you implying that 50% missing = 50% slower? Slowing attack caps at 50% while % chance to miss stacks with other blinding effects as well as chance to block. I'd prefer chance to miss over 50% slower almost any day, particularily when I'm running a necro with faintheartedness anyway in most hex builds.

The point is, as long as you give different effects to different genders, one will always be preferable, and the other will be weaker. Therefor, depending on what people are playing, one gender will be better than the other. I do not think this should happen, nor do I think it will. Gender has always been intended to be merely cosmetic in GW. It has never been and never should be a part of game mechanics.

BahamutKaiser · Mar 04, 2007, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Your obviously too new to understand how real balance works, so I'm not going to bother explaining it to you after this. You may as well say that Shouts are too strong because nobody runs Vocal Minority. As long as the counter exsists it is not overpowered, the commonplaceness of a skill is based on need, and if there is a need than it is used more, the fact that it isn't used often because there isn't a need says 2 things, there should be real reasons to bring it to balance the game, and it is a players build option, not a weakness.

Now if the issue was something like Vocal Minority isn't frequent enough to truely shutdown shout builds than we would have a significant issue, but that isn't the kind of issue we have with feeding. The counters are plenty available and that is all that is neccessary.

Now I am really done listening to a newb try to tell me how it would work, your not a fraction as experienced as me, so when you get some sense you can start asking me how it works instead of assuming you know better.

Aeon_Xin · Mar 04, 2007, 06:58 PM // 18:58

how do you seduce an aatxe?

VERY carefully!!!!!!!!!

(at a quick glance no one else posted, I just HAD to)

/unsigned btw, atleast in it's current form. needs all unique abilities, Necro has blood magic and cold damage shut down pretty tight.
In addition, any sort of fan fiction tends to make me throw up a little in my mouth.
Sure, you've got your .5% success stories, the rest are rubbish, no offense to OP, didn't even read.

-Pluto- · Mar 05, 2007, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Shouts aren't as powerful as imobolizing a character for 5-10 seconds. You usually don't even need to counter shouts with vocal because they just aren't as gamebreaking. If you don't have stance breakers or unconditional knockdowns to use on the Feeder every 10 seconds or so, you are going to lose.

Water snares can do similar things, but you always use hex removal, interupts, KDs, or you can pressure him so he has to kite instead of camping your runner to keep your runner clean (or get killed). Feeders? 3 stance skills, KDs, that's it. Again, because damage is going to go to your runner if you try to pressure the feeder, that's not an option.

And if the existence of counters are enough, then why was the SF/Glowing combo nerfed when you can just bring frigid armor? Why were paragon shouts nerfed anyway awhile back if we could have all just brough vocal minority?

Nice to see you're using my post count as an arguement now though. Never mind the fact that I've been playing this game just as long as you have. Resorting to calling me a newb and refusing to adress an arguement does little to strengthen your position.

BahamutKaiser · Mar 07, 2007, 03:55 AM // 03:55

2 skills arn't a general counter to a skill type, they are a particular counter to a single condition.

If you faced a foe with SS and BackFire your team would surely lose, unless you brang hex removal. Stance breaking, and even moreso, feed breaking is universal enough to be available if neccessary, it isn't a feature available to one class, it is available to nearly every class.

If I said hexes were to powerful because nobody used hex removal would that be a valid argument? No, there is plenty of hex removal in the game, whether or not people accept it as a significant part of their build is completely up to them. Likewise, Feeding has plenty of counters, and it is no more obscure than hex removal.

And my experience has nothing to do with posting, it is based on my accomplishement as a writer and proving innumberable times that I know what is possible and others don't, I will bring the shinobi thread up again if you doubt me.

Soul of the Scythe · Mar 07, 2007, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Please stop referencing that damn shinobi thread. You predicted that the guys who helped design Diablo 2, would put an assasin into the game. Now there's a longshot. You say it like they took your idea word for word. Please tell me one idea that they took from you? I saw you suggesting that the shinobi would have great defensive techniques and well, we all that the assasin has those, right? You suggested that they would "melt" and reappear behind the guy, I suppose you think that they saw that and decided to call it shadow stepping, They had that in D2, or maybe the dual attack, D2 as well, or maybe it was the blocking with dual weapons, D2 yet again.

So stop using an "idea" you had like a year and a half ago to defend your ideas now. Chances are the creators had the idea for the assasin and the ritualist long before you ever posted that, and probably before prophecies even came out.

As for this Stalker(Vampire) idea, cool idea, I'll give you that. Does sound a lot like an amped up Touch Ranger. I like this idea better than your Dragon at least... and your Shinobi idea(despite my flaming of it) would have been better, albeit more confusing and harder to implement, than the Assasin we have. A concern I have is an obvious one, and it is that fact that since he is undead or demon, either way, the undead and demons are enemies so having a group or so of them who decide to help humans doesn't really fit. Not to mention, humans wouldn't accept help from Vampires(or Stalkers as you call them) for the simple reason that they are undead. It could be implemented, but it would be a stretch. I like the feeding idea but in order to balance it out, it would take a lot of work and involve a lot of conditional effects and ways to stop it. I wouldn't mind seeing this idea implemented in GW2(You can be a Charr so why not Undead or Demon?) but in the Guild Wars it wouldn't work because pretty much the whole game(save for maybe factions) your fighting undead and demons and to have one on your side is unbelieveable.

Again, good idea, just not for this Guild Wars atm, maybe Guild Wars 2.

lyra_song · Mar 07, 2007, 04:31 PM // 16:31

*snicker*

This thread is hilarious. Give it up. BK is so in love with his idea he isn't budging on any opinions expect positive ones.

His superior brain makes him know the future, hence all our arguments are invalided.

(yes invalided is not a word)

sister · Mar 09, 2007, 09:30 PM // 21:30

sounds like a war necro to me