Curse

shaderaven · Feb 26, 2007, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Will adding bleeding for 3...10...15 seconds to the skill make it overpowered or just make it viable choice as sword elite?
Reasoning:
100 blades is arguably weak in its current form so it needs a little buff.
It will free a spot on your skillbar by doing the job of sever artery - still it won't make sever redundant because sever is not elite and 100 blades is.
Bleed is arguably the weakest of all conditions and this is one of the shortest bleed durations so it won't be overpowered.
100 blades attacks target adjacent to your target and not to yourself so it won't be overpowered for solo farming melee mobs.

clawofcrimson · Feb 26, 2007, 03:19 PM // 15:19

I agree that HB should be buffed...heck I would be happy if it at least just made the target bleed..

MrGuildBoi · Feb 26, 2007, 03:28 PM // 15:28

How about +damage

Tarun · Feb 26, 2007, 03:31 PM // 15:31

The animation shows your character spinning 360 degrees, so why not attack/hit everything around you?

Anarion Silverhand · Feb 26, 2007, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarun

The animation shows your character spinning 360 degrees, so why not attack/hit everything around you?

Because it would be an elite version of cyclone axe, only without + dmg..

I agree that this skill needs a buff. The bleeding doesn't sound that overpowered, nor does a slight damage buff.

Thomas.knbk · Feb 26, 2007, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Hundred Blades is candidate for worste elite in the game. Compare it to Sun and Moon Slash and you know enough: Sun and Moon is better in every single aspect, and non-elite.
Hundred Blades is only elite because it would supposedly be too strong in combination with Illusionary Weaponry. I think this fear is largely unfounded. Illusionary Weaponry isn't a strong skill to begin with, and no one runs it outside of RA. Its DPS is terrible compared to a real warrior (who doesn't rely on one echantment and one hex and doesn't have incredibly low armor), and a non-elite 100 Blades doesn't change that one bit.
If they do want to keep it elite, I think it needs to be better than S&MS. S&MS can be used much more often since it's adrenaline based and almost always used in combination with Dragon Slash. 100 Blades should be usable at least as often OR have a special effect attatched to it. A secondary effect has my preference because energy skills aren't meant to be spammed with a warrior.
Now, for the choice of that secondary effect, let's look at 100 Blades a bit more careful
100 Blades is obviously meant to be a DPS skill. DPS is the only thing it adds in its current form, along with a slightly increased adrenaline gain (that gain is so small it can be neglected in its current form. The problem is Dragon Slash does both things as well, but does them four times as good.
On sword warriors as they are you definitely want to have the holy Sever/Gash combo. It's the only source of deep wound you have, and deep wounds own. For the deep wound to trigger (gash) you need bleeding. Two interesting side effect would be making this skill cause either bleeding or a deep wound. This doesn't only add dmg, but also frees up one (if bleeding) or two (if deep wound) skill slots. If it adds a deep wound directly a 100-->final spike would be comparable to evis-->exe. This would make it more of a spike skill.
Another option is to add bonus dmg to it. This bonus dmg shoud be quite big, since this skill is energy based so it can't be used too often (if you want to use Frenzy too, which you do, it could only be used once every 15 seconds without using more energy than you gain). The bonus dmg could in fact be as big as +30 on both hits.
Another option is to lower the recharge and add an energy gain to it. Something like 'if these attacks hit, gain 1..4..5 energy for both attacks' (resulting in 10e gained if you hit both). This would make it more of a utility skill, allowing you to spend energy more freely.
Overall I think I like the deep wound option best, but bleeding would be semi-nice.

Priest Of Sin · Feb 26, 2007, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Hundred Blades [E]
5 Energy, 3 second recharge
Elite Sword Attack. Strike twice at target foe and all adjacent foes. This attack deals +5...35 damage and causes bleeding for 5...10 seconds.

Ferret · Feb 26, 2007, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Priest Of Sin

Hundred Blades [E]
5 Energy, 3 second recharge
Elite Sword Attack. Strike twice at target foe and all adjacent foes. This attack deals +5...35 damage and causes bleeding for 5...10 seconds.

Sounds good to me and has my vote.
I actually use this elite, mostly as a cheap adrenaline regain skill

shaderaven · Feb 26, 2007, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Hundred Blades [E]
5 Energy, 1/4 Activation, 8 Recharge.
Elite Sword Attack. Swing twice at target foe and foes adjacent to your target. If any of these attacks hits, the opponent begins bleeding for 3...10...15 seconds and if he is attacking you, that opponent is interupted.

Now we are talking, Mr. Dragon Slash.

But even only bleeding will be a good start. Adding AOE adjacent to you AND bleeding AND 30 damage on each hit makes it ALOT better than tripple chop and Triple is pretty close to if not perfectly balanced elite skill.
Totally unconditional deep wound for 5 energy at the first second of the fight will unbalancing as well. If 100 blades was adrenal skill - then maybe, but in its current state - nono.

IMO 100 blades its not supposed to be DPS skill, but initiating one. And nothing beats Severing Sun and Moon Riposte for that:P~

Faer · Feb 26, 2007, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Adding a condition (or possibly two, though the skill would need additional tweaking for that) to the hit(s) seems like a wonderful solution to me. Bonus damage, I feel, would possibly be a bit too much, as the skill does hit twice, and is relatively spammable (the eight second down time gives you more than enough time to get the energy back, especially if using a Zealous sword). Bonus damage would be really nice though, and could probably earn this skill a slot on more Warrior bars, but the skill would require further tweaking as to not be stupidly abused by every Warrior in the game who isn't running Shadow Prison or YAA. That's of course just my own take on the subject. However, now that I think about it...

WTB Hundred Blades with modified Drunken Blow mechanics!

First hit does some bonus damage, second hit inflicts a random condition, which would be a toss between Bleeding, Deep Wound, and Crippled (Poison, Dazed, and Weakness just don't seem right for a sword attack like this). Of course, personally I feel this would justify some further tweaking of the skill, so let's add a bit of recharge time. So, let's see, as a final product, we'd get:

Hundred Blades {E}
5e / 10r
Swing twice at target foe and foes adjacent to your target. If the first attack hits, you strike for +15 damage for each foe struck (maximum 50 damage). If the second attack hits, all struck foes suffer from one of the following conditions: Deep Wound (for 15 seconds), Bleeding (for 20 seconds), or Crippled (for 10 seconds).

...eh, I don't know, that still seems a little "off". But at least it's better than the current skill, which is currently not even good enough for solo farming FoW anymore.

Damn you, Dragon Slash! But oh how I love you so...

Fender · Feb 26, 2007, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Priest Of Sin

Hundred Blades [E]
5 Energy, 3 second recharge
Elite Sword Attack. Strike twice at target foe and all adjacent foes. This attack deals +5...35 damage and causes bleeding for 5...10 seconds.

Might be to powerful, IMO. Maybe something like 1/13/17 (@0/12/16) sounds more reasonable to me and have it trigger on both swings.

clawofcrimson · Feb 26, 2007, 05:40 PM // 17:40

I think the OP was on track... If this skill caused bleeding it would eliminate the need for the pitiful sever artery (which is usually on sword bars...but hated so) and it would be an effective way to turn energy into adrenaline....

giving the sword line a much needed makeover...

Winterclaw · Feb 26, 2007, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Here's my idea for it:

Hundred Blades
5 e, 8 recharge
Hit target foe and all adjacent foes 1..3 times (3 is at 13 sword) and do +1...8 damage per hit. You have a 3% chance per hit of Hundred Blades recharging instantly.

shaderaven · Feb 26, 2007, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Nah, don't like the drunken blowness... the think with drunken blow is that:
1) You can pretty much spam it alternating it with its mirror skill every 3-4 seconds so you pretty much are guaranteed to get all the conditions in an realisting timeframe and even if you don't get them all - the real synergy of the skill is consistent...
2) ... because combining it with Steady Stance you get energy and adrenaline.

If 100 blades had 33% chance for bleed/deep/cripple and had 10second duration you:
1)Can never count on it crippling someone to prevent kiting so you have to bring another cripple skill/speed boost.
2)Can never count on it bleeding someone so you can gash it so you have to bring sever.
3)Can never count on it deep wounding someone so you have to bring sash (and sever) too.

Almost guaranteed crippling of someone in the next ~40 seconds simply doesn't cut it. 100% for one of this IS MUCH better that randomness, because you can count and base your build on it.
100% for deep wound will be overpowered, 100% for cripple will make crippling slash look retarded (and the skill has its place although can use small +damage)... so we are left with bleeding.

DarkGanni · Feb 26, 2007, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

Adding a condition (or possibly two, though the skill would need additional tweaking for that) to the hit(s) seems like a wonderful solution to me. Bonus damage, I feel, would possibly be a bit too much, as the skill does hit twice, and is relatively spammable (the eight second down time gives you more than enough time to get the energy back, especially if using a Zealous sword). Bonus damage would be really nice though, and could probably earn this skill a slot on more Warrior bars, but the skill would require further tweaking as to not be stupidly abused by every Warrior in the game who isn't running Shadow Prison or YAA. That's of course just my own take on the subject. However, now that I think about it...

WTB Hundred Blades with modified Drunken Blow mechanics!

First hit does some bonus damage, second hit inflicts a random condition, which would be a toss between Bleeding, Deep Wound, and Crippled (Poison, Dazed, and Weakness just don't seem right for a sword attack like this). Of course, personally I feel this would justify some further tweaking of the skill, so let's add a bit of recharge time. So, let's see, as a final product, we'd get:

Hundred Blades {E}
5e / 10r
Swing twice at target foe and foes adjacent to your target. If the first attack hits, you strike for +15 damage for each foe struck (maximum 50 damage). If the second attack hits, all struck foes suffer from one of the following conditions: Deep Wound (for 15 seconds), Bleeding (for 20 seconds), or Crippled (for 10 seconds).

...eh, I don't know, that still seems a little "off". But at least it's better than the current skill, which is currently not even good enough for solo farming FoW anymore.

Damn you, Dragon Slash! But oh how I love you so...

you got my vote man

/signed

Faer · Feb 26, 2007, 06:15 PM // 18:15

I wasn't really going for making it "good", as much as I was going for making it "not utter trash".

My main problem with giving it a set 100% effect is that it might start to overshadow other skills, and I'd rather have all the skills viable than just a few. That, and I'd really rather not see Hundred Blades becoming extremely popular in GvG, because I've seen enough Rurik clones there for my tastes already (I remember seeing one from a T150 guild the other night, and that scared me a lot). Basically in my previous post I tweaked it around to be a great PvE skill, and a "not utter trash" PvP skill.

I really, really hate(d) Rurik.
Seriously.

So yes, for the PvP aspect, we are indeed left with Bleeding. Which is nice, because it removes the need for Sever Artery, and makes Deep Wound easier to apply with a Sword. However, I question if adding Bleeding will make enough difference to pull the skill out of the gutter. Dragon Slash would still be far superior for adrenaline gain, and unless I have overlooked a few skills, pressure as well. Spiking with Hundred Blades might be workable if it caused Bleeding, as you could do a quick HB+Gash combo to take away a nice chunk of health from a target, similar to Eviscerate, but requiring two skills rather than one. Then again, would a guaranteed Deep Wound with Bleeding every 8 seconds be balanced? I'll admit, when it comes to melee, I prefer Assassin over the other options, and when I'm not on a Sin I'm playing a ranged profession of some sort, so I'm not exactly a fount of knowledge when it comes to Warriors. Eviscerate isn't that spammable if the target bothers to kite, and you don't get the Bleeding from that. Unless I messed up a calculation here or there, HB+Gash would do somewhere around the same damage as Eviscerate does, but with Bleeding and more spammability. If you had a snare of any sort on the target, (specifically another Warrior using Crippling Slash, but other things would work here; the CS Warrior was just the first thing that came to mind), you could not only keep some very nice pressure going, but you could also pull of a very nice spike...

My head is starting to hurt, as I haven't slept much recently, and I'm not even sure I am making any sense at all, but I don't think I'd feel comfortable with yet another skill that would effectively allow spikes to fly in at any given time, at approximately 8 second intervals.

clawofcrimson · Feb 26, 2007, 06:46 PM // 18:46

you would still need gash to be fully charged for a decent spike... and unless the foes are stacked up.. it wouldnt charge instantly... giving bleeding to this skill would definitley put it on my bar... perhapse not in all aspects of pvp..but definitely some...

HB>gash> final thrust (dragon slashers dont usually use the excellent skill 'final thrust' because it doesnt synergize well the adren gain....but with HB it would)

frojack · Feb 26, 2007, 08:40 PM // 20:40

I like the idea of random Cripple, Bleeding, or Deep Wound but no bonus damage. Each hit would count as part of the slot machine.

Bonus damage would be too good with the conditions thrown in. Plus you get a very good chance of landing 2 of the 3 variables which is better I think. Perhaps too good. Maybe adding weakness in there as a forth would be better?

Now that would be worth using... More than I do now I guess. Though I currently only for use it for PvE when I like to use vamp and zealous mods...

clawofcrimson · Feb 26, 2007, 08:55 PM // 20:55

random conditions doesnt fit as well with the skill description as drunken blow does... If you are flailing your sword multiple times at the enemies in front of you... you are probably not going to do all that much deep woundage but you will definitely make them bleed... (I know... I just tried it on my dog)

although the slot machine idea is fun...it may just be too powerful... my vote is still for bleeding...

Evilsod · Feb 26, 2007, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Giving it deep wound would be too strong and would be completely overpowering. Could you imagine the spike... get an OoP (or not), 100Blades an opponent then Final Thrust him.

The only condition it should cause is bleeding. Any bonus damage... *shrugs*