Curse

KESKI · Jan 12, 2007, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithark

as said before why should PvE players have to play PvP in order to get into a PvE area?? that is just DUMB. But if that is the case then make it where PvP players get to play PvP 1 hour for every hour they have played in PvE and then they can't get in until they go PvE some more...in other words if you want to PvP then "Work for it" as you stated above

The "I have this and have that part"...its childish, and realy, its not like I dont have perfect gold and green(here since first day of GW..hard to say I dont have some goodies in my bag)

1, the current favor system is nothing like you said. You can pve, you can do everything the GW pve have to offer with out pvp. Story,missions, quest, trade, team with players/hero/hench and fight with monster, name it, you wont miss any of these because you dont pvp. From the start, the FOW/UW had been labble as an extra luxary and so is everything inside. Its extra, not pve or pvp, like the other end-game high-end map, there is a requirement for entery. In this case, its your nation won HA 5 times.
2, Now to be fair, there is a lot of things a pure PVPer will not get with out PVE, and last time I check, I dont see a lot of people sign for the "Give PVP more armor skin choice" "Let pvp choose thier pet and how they grow" want to guess what reason those people use?? And Pet's status does infact matter more then just look if you are playing a beastmaster build. Saying pve keep getting short end of the stick, and all those pvp bashing is not necessary, nor will it prove your point.

I am not you, nor would I want to be you.
However I will say this,
You can look at the PVP part of GW as something evil, and something that make your life go wrong everyday.

or
Look at pvp players as players just as you, and infact when they fight in HA they are fighting for the good of you and other player(like a nation rise and fall with their children at war, so lets support them thing).

and yes...again and again I do pve...I have 8 pve char and only 1 pvp, I pay attension to the story lines and mission, might even be more then your regular pveer, I make my own farming, mission, and just for fun builds. I do believe pve is a big part of GW, and feel those who bought pvp only package realy miss out on something good. But my stand is the same on pvp

Franco Power · Jan 12, 2007, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by WoodyDotNet

I guess you missed the part where I mentioned having "a mature, intelligent discussion on this subject."

/sarcasm on

Yes because it is really mature to whine about something instead of working for it, but waiting for someone to give it to you is really mature!!

/sarcasm off

CassiusDrehyg · Jan 12, 2007, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithark

Why is everyone missing the point??? I SHOULD NOT HAVE TO PVP TO PLAY IN A PVE AREA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let me put it in terms you may understand a little better.

I don't care what you want. If you can't earn favour, you don't deserve to be in an "elite" area. Switch your account to Europe, and stop crying.

Titan Chrae · Jan 12, 2007, 07:52 PM // 19:52

I'm suprised this thread isn't closed already. Everytime the subject comes up it gets slammed because, according to the mods, this thread covers it.

The OP has some interesting ideas but I like mine better. ;-)

Just in case thes thread does stay open. I'll post what I posted there for widest dissemination.

Quote:

The current favor "Reward/Punishment" system is broken and I think most people agree on that. Complaining will not get it fixed but constructive solutions might. Below I have outlined a very simple fix that not only rewards those who have favor but gives those that don't have favor what they deserve as well.

The punishment for not having favor is locked content. Most people in some territories (Japan and Taiwan come to mind) will probably NEVER be able to enjoy this content. This is simply not fair to those people who paid for content they can never play or play once in a blue moon at best.

A simple solution would be to change the reward for Favor and not punish those that do not have favor.

The first step is to unlock all the content to remove the punishment.

The second step is to give a proper reward to the territory that does hold Favor.

As a suggestion:

A JUST reward for holding Favor might be an increased rare drops rate in Elite Missions (Or perhaps everywhere) for the territory that has favor. This could replace the double drop weekend events ANET is so fond of now so they can come up with some new weekend events. It still ties the PvP to the PvE in a little way without doing away with Favor all together. It does not ruin the enjoyment of the game for those that do not have favor.

This would solve EVERY complaint raised in this thread about the broken favor system. And it would also eliminate the mass territory migration issues since the major incentive to switch territories has been removed.

At this time I would like to solicit other suggestions for Just Rewards for Favor.

Big_Iron · Jan 12, 2007, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Ultimatum

/sarcasm on
Yes because it is really mature to whine about something instead of working for it, but waiting for someone to give it to you is really mature!!
/sarcasm off

Who's whining? I've said that the current system is flawed. If you consider that whining, maybe you should look up the definition.

I’m not going to get sucked into a flame war with you, but your comment is ludicrous. If you don’t know what that means, look it up. This will be my last comment in this thread, so I you want to flame me go ahead. It may make you feel better if you can get in the last word.

Keithark · Jan 12, 2007, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by KESKI

The "I have this and have that part"...its childish, and realy, its not like I dont have perfect gold and green(here since first day of GW..hard to say I dont have some goodies in my bag)

You can look at the PVP part of GW as something evil, and something that make your life go wrong everyday.

or
Look at pvp players as players just as you, and infact when they fight in HA they are fighting for the good of you and other player(like a nation rise and fall with their children at war, so lets support them thing).

1st part -- sorry you think that was my point with the "I have..." the point of that is that I don't want to go there to get rich, I just want to be able to go there and play...fine with me if they change it to just drop normal stuff like any other PvE area, point was I don't need ecto or shards, I am not a bot or a e-bay seller, and I am not a farmer of anything (except Lightbringer points and XP so I can get skill hunter title)

2nd part -- I don't look at PvP as evil...just most of the PvP people are evil. "no you can't get in my group cause you are a noob"......"since no monks on my team I will just rage quit and rejoin until I get one so I can get a glad point"...."we beat you in 30 seconds you noobs"..etc, etc, etc. I have done HA, GvG, TA, RA..and it is just not much fun for me. You PvP players want to talk about balance and stuff so much, where is the balance in someone in Europe getting to go to FoW and me not getting to go because of where I live? There is a lot more balance in PvP than that, heck if a skill is overpowered you can use it too, then it is balance because you both have the same skills at your desposal, it is not so for people who live here rather than there and want to go to FoW or UW

3rd -- I look at everyone as a player until they prove otherwise...sadly all but 1 of the times I have been in RA, TA, HA, and GvG there have been people on other side or mine that were just a A-Hole, "Leet", Jealous, or whatever person and that is a big part of the reason I don't go there anymore.

4th -- I have yet to ever talk to anyone who HA'd to "fight for the good of their country" If you want to fight for the good of your country then join the military.

5th -- If favor is there to promote playing PvP then make it where for every XX # of PvP matches you play you get to go to Fow or UW one time...then I would PvP. If it is not there to promote PvP then why is it there?

Keithark · Jan 12, 2007, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by CassiusDrehyg

Let me put it in terms you may understand a little better.

I don't care what you want. If you can't earn favour, you don't deserve to be in an "elite" area. Switch your account to Europe, and stop crying.

That would be great If I could get everyone else in my guild to do that I would then we could go to FoW and UW...but if Favor is for the Pride of the country, etc then why should switching even be allowed? Another thing that should be fixed, pick one and stick with it....and by the way, I don't really care what you want or don't want either...I am just posting my opinion on the subject and you have the right to think or want whatever you want, just because you have no valid argument doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to post your opinion like everyone else

aB- · Jan 12, 2007, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Add another reason why favor is flawed:

It further separates the gap between PvE and PvP players as seen in this thread.

grottoftl · Jan 12, 2007, 08:36 PM // 20:36

what I want to know is why are there PvP players posting here trying to restrict us access to 2 PvE areas?

you know that not everyone PvP right? there are a lot of PvE only players with no desire to PvP and I feel bad that the new regions, Japan and Taiwan will never get to fully experience FoW and UW.

KESKI · Jan 12, 2007, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithark

1st part -- sorry you think that was my point with the "I have..." the point of that is that I don't want to go there to get rich, I just want to be able to go there and play...fine with me if they change it to just drop normal stuff like any other PvE area, point was I don't need ecto or shards, I am not a bot or a e-bay seller, and I am not a farmer of anything (except Lightbringer points and XP so I can get skill hunter title)

I agree, as I said, I believe the favor system need a change, so every nation have a fair chance in the starter point. (winning or loseing will still base on skills of course) In term, a more balance favour flow between nations.

Quote:

2nd part -- I don't look at PvP as evil...just most of the PvP people are evil. "no you can't get in my group cause you are a noob"......"since no monks on my team I will just rage quit and rejoin until I get one so I can get a glad point"...."we beat you in 30 seconds you noobs"..etc, etc, etc. I have done HA, GvG, TA, RA..and it is just not much fun for me. You PvP players want to talk about balance and stuff so much, where is the balance in someone in Europe getting to go to FoW and me not getting to go because of where I live? There is a lot more balance in PvP than that, heck if a skill is overpowered you can use it too, then it is balance because you both have the same skills at your desposal, it is not so for people who live here rather than there and want to go to FoW or UW

Oh come on~~ you and I both know PVE have just as many "Leetness" people. The good thing is, because they are so leet and selfcenter, they use hero and became anti-social outside thier own guild

. HA dont have such privilage....its player vs player after all. Sometime I actualy hope the other team are all a$$...hard to wack someone when they seem so nice

It seem worse because you have less contral on every factor, and have to trust other...which is hard for today's people

Over all, doesnt matter pve or pvp, we just need more nicer kinder players

Quote:

3rd -- I look at everyone as a player until they prove otherwise...sadly all but 1 of the times I have been in RA, TA, HA, and GvG there have been people on other side or mine that were just a A-Hole, "Leet", Jealous, or whatever person and that is a big part of the reason I don't go there anymore.

skip this one

my say on this matter is at the above

Quote:

4th -- I have yet to ever talk to anyone who HA'd to "fight for the good of their country" If you want to fight for the good of your country then join the military.

We dont have to talk about it, but the feeling is there, people do go "woopy!!" when the favor come, doesnt matter pvp or pve. And that example is not logical, people like the glory and the feeling that they are doing good for others once every now and then, doesnt mean they are ready to drop their current life and join the army.

Quote:

5th -- If favor is there to promote playing PvP then make it where for every XX # of PvP matches you play you get to go to Fow or UW one time...then I would PvP. If it is not there to promote PvP then why is it there?

I dont know why A-Net didnt do it this way, but yes, it was originaly a way to promote pvp, and for player in both side have some kind of link. They made a great deal about the system too

BTW, how are we supose to team with others players and go down there together if it is base on players win ## mach in pvp??

Retribution X · Jan 12, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Guys, if you just want to be an ass, go elsewhere. This is supposed to be SERIOUS discussion of WHY it should/shouldn't be used. not, a flame war.

Keithark · Jan 12, 2007, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retribution X

Guys, if you just want to be an ass, go elsewhere. This is supposed to be SERIOUS discussion of WHY it should/shouldn't be used. not, a flame war.

I agree...sorry about that, just makes me mad I been wanting to go UW for a month now and no chance... ok, so here is serious discussion (basically what has been said so far)

Reasons discussed so far to keep it like it is:

1) because Europe didn't ever get to go when America had favor all the time
2) if you can't earn favor you don't get to go
3) make PvE'rs miserable
4) Sense of doing something for your fellow countrymen

Reasons to get rid of it

1) lots of people are new th the game and weren't around when America had
favor and have not gotten to go at all
2) It is PVE!! not PVP one should not affect the other
3) People from regions other than Europe or America don't stand a chance
4) It makes even bigger gap between PvP and PvE players than there already is
5) It does not affect PvP at all if you have favor or not, but it is decided by actions of PvP players... so if we are going to keep it then there should be something in PvE that does not affect PvE but does affect PvP just to make it "fair"

Can you really look at the arguments for and against and say that the argument for keeping it is valid in comparison?

Crom The Pale · Jan 12, 2007, 10:13 PM // 22:13

I'd really love to see all the pvp arenas locked to anyone that has not completed the final mission of a campain.

Make sence to you?

And yet locking out a pve area unless you complete a pvp arena does?

leeky baby · Jan 12, 2007, 10:15 PM // 22:15

i think if the server doesnt have server paying 8k, 1k each is the best soultion. Although there are lots of threads about this sort of stuff and im pretty sure A-net r gunna keep this method...

Shadow Kurd · Jan 12, 2007, 10:18 PM // 22:18

I don't think they will ever change it, when America had the favor all the time Europe made tons of these treadhs and nothing happened so it would be pretty unfair if the did something this time.

Retribution X · Jan 12, 2007, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Yeah, well, There's a LOT more american PvE player than there are Euro Players total...

So, Leverage is the big thing here.

azathothx · Jan 12, 2007, 10:34 PM // 22:34

/signed

favor is seriously flawed. i want to go to the underworld. in order to do that, i have to learn how to pvp (something i'm not very fond of) and become so good i can beat everyone else in ha. that's taking the 'choice' out of pvp and adding the 'force' into pve. favor should just be totally removed and we should all be able to explore the high-end areas without harrassment. and let us take heroes and henchies in there, some of us actually enjoy exploring on our own and dont require 7 other idiots to survive.

KESKI · Jan 12, 2007, 11:22 PM // 23:22

As long as people keep thinking this as some PVP vs PVE thing....there is no end to it.
I dont care how people are saying PVEer are peaceful and nicer or anything...look around the forum.
PVEer are just as aggresive, they just dont work off their adrenalin in pvp.
The people fail the system just as much as the system fail the people.... but the system isnt a living thing...so ya, bash it all you want=P

And the "lock off pvp arena and give them a taste of their own medicine" ...I dot understand
FOW/UW are maps, they are not link to any of the main content. Your progress wont "stuck" because you cant FOW/UW.

Again, I found the whole, "I must go FOW/UW or GW arent worth the money I pay for it" more of the desire for the fruit that is harder to reach.

If you truely think you been everywhere, and need more place to go, your problem is not with the favor system, ya 2 map that take 3~5 hours to finish all missions there are so going to save you from been board....if it does we wont have SF. Your problem is that A-Net didnt make a big enough game for you. Which by all mean, go a head and ask for more map, more follow up story, more missions.

Crom The Pale · Jan 12, 2007, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Its not about wanting to get there because we need to farm or just be everywhere...

Many people like myself go to FOW and UW because its fun, its different and there are monsters there that you dont find in most other places.

PvP players that spend all the time on the same handfull of maps fighting the same humans over and over should get this concept...but they just dont for some reason..

This is a pve vs pvp problem because Anet made it that way....we just want the problem resolved one way or another.

Try to imagine favor working in reverse with the region that completed the most quests in FoW/UW getting access to HA and the rest locked out?

Makes no sence does it?

P A L P H R A M O N D · Jan 13, 2007, 12:07 AM // 00:07

/signed

I am only a so-so player, having beat Prophecies and Factions a few times on different characters and Nightfall once, over the course of about 15 months of play. I really am more of a PvE player, but still enjoy PvP, in the forms of TA and RA, AB once upon a time, and about 130 Fame-worth of HA. I love the PvE aspects of the game, and really get annoyed at the fact that the favor system binds PvE players to a PvP aspect of the game. There is a pretty sharp division between these two parts of Guild Wars, and the fact that PvP exercises COMPLETE control over the top areas of PvE (minus the Domain of Anguish) is a bad idea, since players who want into UW/FOW need to either sit around and wait for favor, or completely change the focus of their game and spend a fair amount of time just learning the ropes of HA to even get IN to teams, leave their beloved home PvE guilds for HA oriented ones, or just sit around and wait for favor. :-p None of these options make sense. There are no PvE restrictions on PvP really . . . they have access to unlock all skills through PvP means (Balthazar faction), and Anet is actively lifting armor and weapon restrictions changes to benefit PvP, where somewhere in the PvE world there exists something only attainable through PvE. I think that as PvE areas, UW and FOW should be accessed through PvE means. The Domain of Anguish req is reasonable; beating the game. Making the same sort of thing applicable to UW/FOW would be good:

Players who own only one game gain access to UW/FOW by being ascended, paying 1k, and then either paying in Balthazar Faction, or having beaten all the missions in the game (bonus not included).

Players owning multiples campaigns would have to be ascended, pay the 1k, and then either pay Bathazar faction or have beaten any one of the campaigns entire set of missions (bonus/masters not needed).

This would also have the added benefit of getting PvE-ers to play through the whole game, making places like the Maguuma Jungle visited again.

I don't think getting rid of favor and hiking up the price of entry would be a good idea, but replacing favor with a less biased system would be a great idea.

Besides, say a good PvE player trying to get into UW more often drops everything, becomes a master of PvP, joins a top guild, and starts winning in the Hall of Heroes. ONce favor is attained, what is that player going to do? "Thanks guild, now we have favor, so I am going to drop out, hustle over to the Temple of the Ages, and see if I can get into UW . . . you guys keep plugging away!" That doesn't really seem like a good gameplay attitude to foster.

Thats my two cents.