Curse

Meat Axe · Feb 06, 2007, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Tom

races would be cool, the thing i really dont like about the 2nd and 3rd campaigns is the storyline and how you have to complete the missions to proceed. what they should do is release all three games together, get rid of the storyline and just pop in a leet boss at the end of each mission

Hahahah you're joking, right? The only reason I (and I'm sure many others) play GW is because of the storyline. I don't want some game that you just run around doing quests, like a lot of other online games.

Navaros · Feb 06, 2007, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Original post is an excellent suggestion.

Although I fear, not the least bit realistic and hence would never actually happen in real life.

The Silver Star · Feb 06, 2007, 08:18 AM // 08:18

What the 4th campaign need to do is not be released.

Kuldebar Valiturus · Feb 06, 2007, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Well, by creating unique and new content within the boundaries of the older campaigns, ANet could replenish the over all game for the good of all players, new or old.

The 4th Chapter would first and foremost be a compilation of all 3 previous campaigns. For business purposes, ANet would need to sell the compilation at a somewhat higher price. The compilation would include the new content of some kind and a significant amount of it.

For owners of one or more of the previous campaigns, a normal expansion at the regular price range would be offered.

So, both versions and approximate prices:

Compilation + Expansion #4 ($64.95)

Expansion #4 ($49.95)

Notes/ideas about the expansion:

-It requires one or more of the previous chapters.

-The storyline and content of the new expansion will "hook" directly into each campaign.

-If a new playable race (human or otherwise) are involved each campaign will have one. (Imagine: playing a race of sentient gargoyles that live many levels deep within the Catacombs in Pre-Sear until you are forced into the light of day as the Catacombs collapse around you....example )

-Nearly all the Outposts of previous chapters would be used so player populations aren't impacted nearly as much, there would be new instanced areas, of course.

And, notes/ideas about the compilation:

-The compilation would "boot-strap" new players into the Guild Wars Universe.

-Although somewhat more expensive than a single chapter, the compilation would be a great value for people that want to dive into the game along with the new content..

-Owners of one or more of the prior Campaigns would just need the expansion, of course the expansion would only unlock content in the campaign(s) they own but it would still be a full scale expansion.

Any way, there it is roughly laid out. I don't think it's necessarily undo-able or unrealistic, although I will admit I don't know the accounting figures of the business side of it.

The POINT: I think there is a way that new content can be folded into the old and still keep true with the business model, gain new customers, strengthen the existing player base and revitalize the older campaigns.

Otherwise, every new campaign will continue to pound nails into the coffin of the older campaign(s), and that would be a shame.

Sustainability.

actionjack · Feb 06, 2007, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Idea of expansion (mini-chapter) add-on, and not just a entire new chapter, has been around for while. And I do see it as a good direction to go for GW.

I am still uncertain about the compliation as a new chapter. Its good to re-sell it, with some added contents, but feel its tricky to do new chapter out of the 3 old one, especially if is asking for new missions or story. However, I do see a need to go back and improve upon the older chapter (especially ch1) with the new features, like Heros and stuff.

Ghost900 · Feb 06, 2007, 08:03 PM // 20:03

If there were not more places to explore in Chap 4 I wouldn't even buy it.

I am not going to pay $50 so I can have an auction house, new races, new skills , and a bunch of other stuff.

I want a new land to play on that would be a Stand alone or and expansion.

If it were and expansion it could add to the map of proph, factions, nightfall and make the map bigger instead of making a whole new land and then the expansion would be for LVL 20s to go to and it wouldn't have any new races would be ok with me but without land I wouldn't want it.

/notsigned

Kuldebar Valiturus · Feb 06, 2007, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost900

If there were not more places to explore in Chap 4 I wouldn't even buy it.

/notsigned

You miss the point.

There would be new content and new areas/dungeons but these things would be based out of the existing campaigns or in adjacent map areas.

This serves the purpose of improving player population density and creates a better crossroads for all players regardless of the campaign they own.

Warlord Roberticus · Feb 06, 2007, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Hey just don't get rid of the Wurms...they are fun as hell...

Meat Axe · Feb 07, 2007, 12:58 AM // 00:58

I agree with Ghost900 on this one. We need another continent. Exploring all the new areas is one of my favourite things to do in the game. Even if it were new areas in one of the old continents it wouldn't be as good, because each continent has a different setting, and the new areas would be the same as the rest of the continent that they are on.

Also, new areas on old continents would completely screw up the cartographer titles. I think a lot of players would be pissed off if they bought chapter 4 and found that they didn't have a maxed title anymore.

However, I didn't mind your idea about the gargoyles in prophecies... Nice way to tie them into the plot, but there's one problem. Why would they be allowed into human cities. It's obvious we don't like them, since we go and kill them for the slightly better collector armour.

I think I've made it clear that I don't care for the idea of having races. If it's done well, then sure, I'm all for it. But new races as an aesthetics thing I just think is pointless, and wasting time that I feel the team could be using to improve other aspects of the next campaign.

markus_thom · Feb 07, 2007, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by bg_solidsnake

no races pls

Why are so many people against any idea which would actually make guild wars deeper or help to improve guild wars overall, Yes anet Have a certain buisness model they are following, but people have the right to question whether it is the right one.

I Made a thread long ago, which talked about anets approach to making each chapter stand alone and possibly side effects that could happen in the near future.

Although Anet introuduced heros which solves the problem in some way, people will be spread more thinly with each new chapter introduced, and the game will feel less and less like a multiplayer game due to this.

Plenty of wasted pertential that could of been worked on, such as allaince battles, and the luxon and kuzerick war, and of course other sub stories.
It feels messy like they start something then draw a line and start again.
PVe should be whole, not cut up into peices.
There Are not enough benefits of merging accounts In guild wars, And I can gurantee you if Anet did add exlusive areas or quests to older chapters released with new chapters it would help to sell the actuall product.

-TO MANY CHAPTER SPECIFC QUESTS, NEXT TO NOTHING IN GLOBAL QUESTS-
Yes we Have chapter specifc quests, But Imagine global quests that require you to go to each chapter and do specific tasks in order to complete the quest. These type of quests could easily be introduced without needing to add exlusive areas, and would encourage people to buy past chapters.

This idea could be called "extras" that come with new chapters when you buy them, this Would help encourage newcomers to buy older chapters.
As it currently stands the only reason people buy older chapters is for the skills, Give us more reasons to own past chapters.

Most of the posters here are against any idea that has any similarity what so ever to WOW, even if it is a idea that would actually help to make guild wars a better game.

-SIDE NOTE
"OMG NO RACES, THATS WOW"
Please state reasons behind your answers instead of using the example above.
People are always Quick to bring wow into the picture, and as much as I dislike the game it still had good ideas.

Chris Blackstar · Feb 07, 2007, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Maybe instead on creating new races, add only one new profession.

It would be a Shape Shifter. The class would have abilities to shape shift into new forms, and carry a special signet that would allow the class to add new forms.

Upon shifting into the new form, the char will get the skills for that form, including the special monster skill.

The attrubutes could be as followed:

Shift: for every level increases duration of form, and with high lvl allows more advanced forms. (Primary)

Attack: Increased damage for melee type skills or spells

Elemental: Increases damage for elemental or energy damage type skills or spells

Heal: Increases healing for all heal type skills or spells

This profession could solve the race issue, just an idea.

Kuldebar Valiturus · Feb 07, 2007, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meat Axe

We need another continent. Exploring all the new areas is one of my favourite things to do in the game. Even if it were new areas in one of the old continents it wouldn't be as good, because each continent has a different setting, and the new areas would be the same as the rest of the continent that they are on...

Also, new areas on old continents would completely screw up the cartographer titles. I think a lot of players would be pissed off if they bought chapter 4 and found that they didn't have a maxed title anymore.

I haven't heard anyone say they don't like exploring new content. No one is against new content. But, if ANet intends to keep expanding their Universe they need to take measures to ensure it doesn't collapse.

We don't need a new continent to have new explorable areas. The game is instanced when you leave an Outposts, the possibilities are endless. All ANet has to do is find a good way to fit it into the existing and established Game World. From a creative stand point, it's not an insurmountable obstacle.

By tying in new content to the "older" areas we get players crossing paths again and in larger numbers.

Concerning Cartographer Titles that would be impacted, it's a non issue. Any expansion's explorable map would have its own designated title.

CONCERNING RACES:

I raised them as a possibility...a fairly obvious one. As a way to get the new content of a new expansion into the "older" campaign areas.

draxynnic · Feb 07, 2007, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Because the jury is most definitely still out on whether adding new races WOULD be an improvement to Guild Wars.

Balance-wise, chances are that if a new race was to be introduced, it would have identical abilities to humans anyway. In fact, we've seen this with Talon and Zhed: neither have any particular advantages over a human hero or henchman with the same build. If they were introduced for PCs, it would similarly likely be a purely cosmetic effect - to give them actual differences would, apart from possibly create balance issues, possibly alienate players who have well-estabolished characters that suddenly would have been better as (say) a centaur.

As a purely cosmetic change, races would require a lot of work. In Prophecies alone, introduction of a new race would require six new models (one for each primary class)... and that's assuming the race in question does not have visible gender differences. If they do... that's twelve.

Furthermore, you then have to consider armour sets. Even taking it at a minimum, I'd say that four armour styles per primary is an absolute minimum - giving at least one alternative at both the regular and Ascended levels. Multiplying that by the number of models (above) and you need at least twenty-four new sets of armour. And that's just for one race with no clear gender differences and no access to the chapter-specific classes.

The backdrop of this point is that ANet does not have unlimited resources. The effort that would be going into those thirty-odd models (we're assuming the new race has underwear as well) is, quite simply, effort that's not going into something else. When it comes to new visual options - adding new armour to the existing, human characters is simply more efficient. It may be a smaller difference, but there they can add as many or as few as they feel like, and existing characters don't end up feeling like they've missed out - they can simply pick up the new outfit when it becomes available. It's a little harder to pick up a new race.

On the idea of new storylines for new races: Again, we come to the issue of resource allocation. The effort going into, say, a Centaur-oriented storyline that can probably only be played by a single character out of 10 could just as easily have gone into a normal storyline that can be played by every character on a player's account. Now, that player may or may not choose to actually do so... but it's certainly more replayable when you have more than one or maybe two characters that can access it.

Essentially, what it boils down to is that it seems that the amount of work it would require greatly outweighs the benefit it would provide. The work going into implementing new races could easily go into two or three different things that individually benefit most players more than the new races.

In the case of WoW, it works for two reasons: First, because the races were part of the game from the start and the balancing took that into account, and second, because the relationships between the races is a major part of of the Warcraft storyline. In Guild Wars, this is not the case.

Kuldebar Valiturus · Feb 07, 2007, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

The backdrop of this point is that ANet does not have unlimited resources

Granted. But we are talking about this in the context of an expansion, so the resources are there for the purpose of an expansion. Again, the idea of adding new races is suggested as a simple way to tie in new content and storyline and explorable areas into older campaign regions. But, not necessary.

The issue at hand is about avoiding any further watering down of the playerbase.

The game is already suffering a social problem and has a lot of issues regarding player interaction, another expansion that exacerbates this problem is something to be avoided.

Creating a "gold rush event" with every new expansion and making ghost towns of previous chapters is not a sustainable plan. It needs to be modified and unified.

Sustainable development.

Scorchio · Feb 07, 2007, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Perhaps one way of maintaining interaction and interest in previous campaigns when a new one launches would be the implementation of global quests and/or missions. I would see these as being quests or missions that require visiting other campaign locations.

For example, if you’ve got Prophecies and Night Fall then the global quests or missions available to you will be those that only require access to those areas. If you have access to all campaigns then you can access quests or missions that take you from *Insert New Campaign Town Name Here* to Echovald Forrest to the Forrest of the Wailing Lord then on to the Gate of Madness.

These quests could be anything from treasure hunts with arcane clues and riddles that require the input of NPCs or examining the landscape for clues (footprints, Charr graffiti, a broken flute) to slaughtoberfest.

They could require
• taking two elite skills to cope with higher level mobs
• pacifism and stealth
• well coordinated activities requiring a number human players and syncronised actions
• completion over a number of days
• shepherding lower level players to a safe area (imagine: LF low lvl noobs for mish and bnus!!1!)

In essence quests that are larger in scope and reward than what we currently have.

I wouldn’t mind seeing more of a random element in global quests or something else that means relying on a guide isn’t the solution. I don’t know how this would be implemented, but I believe it would add greatly to the challenge of the game. As always, people who want to rush will find the answers before they even start, but those people have no right to complain about missions being insipid and unchallenging.

Global quests and missions could have a separate title track, be associated with hard mode or excluded from counting towards any title – this might keep all the ‘Protectors’ happy. The rewards could actually be rewarding. How about 5 Signets of Capture, a mapping quest that gives you +3% to add to your selected cartographer title (or to a future one), access to a special pet, a chance to dye all of your armour any colour you want for free, unlock a service for your guild hall, an armour upgrade for one of your heroes, a special mod-able collector weapon or item, a mini pet jackpot to swap one for a random one and so on and so forth. These are just a few ideas and I’m sure others can come up with better ones. I wouldn’t envisage the quests being repeatable to avoid them being farmed.

Perhaps this would have the benefit of;
• encouraging players to own all campaigns;
• reinvigorating some of the outposts (albeit sporadically);
• advancing and broadening the storyline;
• allowing smaller updates to be made between major releases;

The implementation of global missions and quests would not solve the problem of empty continents after every new release, but it could breathe a bit of life into ghost towns and spark some further interest in those quiet areas from those of us who have played since release. It could be implemented as part of a new release or utilised as a bridge between releases. I’ve done a few searches to see if anyone else has mentioned this and either I haven’t searched the right terms or the search is fritzed. Anyway – my first post, be gentle.

Puliver · Feb 07, 2007, 08:50 AM // 08:50

I would like to see more interaction with gods. Like you can choose your deity and earn his/her favor (points) which you can spend at altar for blessings (maybe time dependent). Till now I have not seen any of gods (except in Nightfall of course) where they are helping or punishing me. It would be nice to implement this. It will bring more atmosphere and "realism" into game. Maybe you can gain ranks in serving to them ... Earn god/prof specific skills ... Maybe even some punishing from god when you anger him.

Ado · Feb 07, 2007, 11:14 AM // 11:14

-monsters having 2 professions
-more high-end area's. ATM there's only one in each chapter
-get rid of hero's, this is supposed to be an MMO, not a singleplayergame
-an explorable area (not the whole map) which is fully interactive (a bit like WoW).
-a good storyline
-a complete skillrevision. Only 20% is useable atm which is both bad for pvp and pve.
-more huge monsters
-8v8 in Heroes Ascent
-less noobs (just kiddin

)

Zazoo · Feb 07, 2007, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuldebar Valiturus

You got the idea with your ideas.

I believe that there would be a way to create a new expansion that is standalone but also focuses on the one or all of the existing campaigns. (preferably all)

I brought up new playable races as being a relatively easy way to do this...one new race per campaign. But, obviously there would have to be much more content than just new races.

I am as "contradictory" as you are concerning Heroes. On one hand, I'd love to see them expanded (more allowed in party, better control, etc.) but I also view them as detrimental to the game community. I am bothered that Guild Wars has become a solo game for me and yes, I choose to use Heroes. Of course, we all "choose" to use automobiles even while we acknowledge the negative impact they have on our environment. But, sincethe "creator" of the world didn't introduce the internal combustion engine, the analogy falls a little flat.

I feel that ANet may have to introduce an incentive system for playing with real players, perhaps by increasing % of gold, loot, faction or XP when teamed with other players.

The challenge for Guild Wars, in my opinion, is to improve the social interaction between players and add more layers of interest for each player with his character. The natural opportunity to accomplish that is with an expansion, but the challenge is to release an expansion that doesn't add to the problems of a fragmented player base and a tendency for solo play.

And alienate the majority of thier player base.

GOOD IDEA!!!

You do realise that the reason they released heros in the first place was that the majority of people played solo with Henchies.
Making people join with others would just irritate those people.

Kuldebar Valiturus · Feb 07, 2007, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zazoo

And alienate the majority of thier player base.

GOOD IDEA!!!

You do realise that the reason they released heros in the first place was that the majority of people played solo with Henchies.
Making people join with others would just irritate those people.

As much as I like playing with my Heroes I do believe they are hurting the game and limiting it's future and potential. But, irregardless of whether Heroes stay, go or become somewhat reduced in scope, I think ANet needs to strengthen the backbone of their game in ways similar to what I and others have suggested.

My feeling is that Heroes could stay exactly as they are now but ANet could introduce bonuses of some type that would encourage people to play together.

If everyone goes to a dance party and no one dances or talks to each other it will get boring fast and most likely end early, so encouraging <not forcing> people to dance isn't a bad move.

If it was only Heroes it would be probably alright, but we also have the expanding universe effect diluting the player base. my "advice" such as it is, is to revitalize the population centers while still expanding the game.

A. Noid · Feb 07, 2007, 02:27 PM // 14:27

I appreciate your thoughts. I think you have given alot of thought on this, and I too have considered how ANet might stray from the norm. But, the thing you have to ask yourself is this: Does Anet think another chapter will dilute their product/playerbase?
I would suggest that ANet is not as concerned about diluting their player base as much as other MMO's might. I would think this would have been thought thru by them with the introduction of heros. Because ANets world is kind of the reverse of the MMO industry(the towns are populated- the world is instanced), one could argue that any change that might dilute the player base could be substantial.
I agree with you to this extent; I would go for more story, more new mechanics (read auction house, etc) and less new world for the next chapter, but, in the end, they're going to have to keep growing their world to succeed.
I do support the idea of some type of reward while teamed with actual players. I think this is how ANet needs to approach the next few chapters. People will always respond better to the carrot instead of the stick.

-AN