Curse

Div · Mar 22, 2007, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Hm... in this case the fastest and easiest way to nerf it would be to make it disable all attack skills for some sconds instead of removing all adrenaline...

How does that help warriors? I thought the whole point was that people said it sucked for warriors...you know disabling attack skills means removing all adrenaline as well...

MithranArkanere · Mar 22, 2007, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Well, instead heliing warriors, that would make it not so powerfull for Dervishes.

Keithark · Mar 22, 2007, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Make several of the dervish attacks adrenaline based..solves them being at unfair advantage with wild blow which seems to be the biggest commplaint on the thread.

Takuna · Mar 22, 2007, 09:11 PM // 21:11

The amount of Dervishes that say the warrior is overpowered and therefore overpopular... Dude, it's. one. skill... The warrior is actually freaking good WITHOUT this skill. The dervishes Scythes has a high max damage, eh? Well, it has a low minimum damage and thus it's average isn't all as high as you think. Scythe average = 25. Sword average = 18.5 AND you get to hold a shield AND you get high AL anyway, so don't complain about the dervish being able to hit three targets at a time. Plus, your adrenaline can be a massive strength in other situations, so you can't call it an all-out bad thing.

I'm sure that assassins would like to be able to use skills out of sequence but that would make them too powerful. I'm sure they'd also like to have their poxy 7-17 weapon damage buffed... In fact, there's a funny thing, the assassin has rubbish weapon damage like that and they can still rack up more focused damage that a warrior or dervish. So it just shows that the weapon's max damage doesn't really reflect on how well a profession performs.

Thomas.knbk · Mar 22, 2007, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

So... you are a tank, not a damage dealer, you are meant to go there, eat damage and bother the enemy, while the damage dealer nuke them.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=113319
It's outdated, but the fact that warriors have the highest maintained DPS in the game is still true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Guy

the skill I like is Protector Strike because it's spammable. If Wild Blow can be spammed like that, I could not imagine how good it can be.

Protector's Strike is good because it has a 1/2 sec activation time, so you can use it as a quick follow up spike. Wild Blow doesn't have a 1/2 sec activation time, so you can't really compare it to Prot Strike.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Guy

The average dmg can be 50-80+ dmg! For the area dmg like that is not bad at all! Derv does not deal extra dmg like a Warrior do, Plus the attack rate of Scythe is really low!

What do you mean by extra damage? If you mean the armor penetration caused by strength, go do some math. It's neglectable in the long run.
The attack rate of scytes is slow, but this is bypassed with 3/4 sec activation attacks, like eremites so you can still dish out a mean spike.

The best option imo is to link it to strenght and make it:
If Wild Blow hits, this attack has an additional 10....65..75% chance of being a critical hit and any Stance being used by your target ends. This attack cannot be "blocked".

At 12 strength you would have a ~90% chance on a critical hit. It would no longer be imba on dervs, and warriors could actually use it because it no longer has an adrenaline loss attatched to it.

Not A Fifty Five · Mar 23, 2007, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

The best option imo is to link it to strenght and make it:
If Wild Blow hits, this attack has an additional 10....65..75% chance of being a critical hit and any Stance being used by your target ends. This attack cannot be "blocked".

At 12 strength you would have a ~90% chance on a critical hit. It would no longer be imba on dervs, and warriors could actually use it because it no longer has an adrenaline loss attatched to it.

^ sounds good.

Curse You · Mar 23, 2007, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

The best option imo is to link it to strenght and make it:
If Wild Blow hits, this attack has an additional 10....65..75% chance of being a critical hit and any Stance being used by your target ends. This attack cannot be "blocked".

At 12 strength you would have a ~90% chance on a critical hit. It would no longer be imba on dervs, and warriors could actually use it because it no longer has an adrenaline loss attatched to it.

Wait, what about warriors who don't focus on strength? A small bit of extra armour penetration isn't always worth loosing extra damage from your weapon attacks (damage that is armour ignoring anyways).

Quite frankly, moving skills from one attribute to another should be reserved as a last resort, if there is nothing else that can be done.
Making it only work with warrior weapons kind of defeats the purpose of it being a Melee Attack.
The best option I can see is to remove the adrenaline loss, since then a warrior could be on par with Assassins and Dervishes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Guy

Uhmm...not really, there is a reason why it is in Non-ATRIBUTE skill. It does not belong to Warrior as it will cause lose adreline. But for a Warrior, it's not completely bad. You can use the combo of 2 Heavy Adreline Skill then finish the target with Wild blow since it will hit for sure. Non-atribute skills are primary for ALL classes.

Please then explain to me why I can't use Wild Blow on my D/N? According to you, I should be able to, since it's not a warrior skill, and apparently is not linked to a profession.

MithranArkanere · Mar 23, 2007, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithark

Make several of the dervish attacks adrenaline based..solves them being at unfair advantage with wild blow which seems to be the biggest commplaint on the thread.

Nope, that will never happen,

Warrior and Paragon, armor 80, adrenal/energy skills
Dervish, Ranger and Assassin, armor 70, energy skills only.

That's how it is. That won't change.

lyra_song · Mar 23, 2007, 01:33 PM // 13:33

meh..

[wiki]Wild Blow[/wiki]

Move it to strength.

No changes to cost or recharge:

Melee Attack: Lose All Adrenaline. If it hits, this attack has a 0-100% chance of a critical hit. If it hits, any Stance being used by your target ends. This attacked cannot be Blocked.

-------------

Only warriors will take full advantage of the critical.
Other melee classes will still keep the unblockable stance breaker.

max gladius · Mar 23, 2007, 02:31 PM // 14:31

^^^ i agree with that, or making it say, only hits 1 target

BSSuperman · Mar 23, 2007, 03:11 PM // 15:11

What? Wild Blow is the Mutts Nutts - guaranteeed hit, unconditional stance removal and always critical attack? Assassin/Warrior hunting down stance monks.. Mwuahahahahaaha

Evilsod · Mar 25, 2007, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

What do you mean by extra damage? If you mean the armor penetration caused by strength, go do some math. It's neglectable in the long run.
The attack rate of scytes is slow, but this is bypassed with 3/4 sec activation attacks, like eremites so you can still dish out a mean spike.

The best option imo is to link it to strenght and make it:
If Wild Blow hits, this attack has an additional 10....65..75% chance of being a critical hit and any Stance being used by your target ends. This attack cannot be "blocked".

At 12 strength you would have a ~90% chance on a critical hit. It would no longer be imba on dervs, and warriors could actually use it because it no longer has an adrenaline loss attatched to it.

Thats my biggest problem with the scythe... they gave it a slow attack rate because it has a ridiculously high critical and hits multiple targets. Then for some reason they assumed it would remain 'balanced' if they gave it 2 very spammable 3/4s attack skills... chain those 2 on someone whose trying to run you get critical hits in the same time period of 1 normal attack with + damage. I just don't see how its balanced in the slightest. Average damage means nothing when you always strike criticals on fleeing targets.

Lyra... the whole point is to remove losing all adrenaline. Its not worth 5 energy for a certified critical hit to just spam randomly when you have very poor regen. Its just not worth taking on a Primary Warrior, a Dervish can just take it for the hell of it, removing a stance is a bonus.

lyra_song · Mar 25, 2007, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Lyra... the whole point is to remove losing all adrenaline. Its not worth 5 energy for a certified critical hit to just spam randomly when you have very poor regen. Its just not worth taking on a Primary Warrior, a Dervish can just take it for the hell of it, removing a stance is a bonus.

No....stance breaking is the purpose of Wild Blow. To cause critical damage is the bonus, kind of a payback for losing all that adrenaline.

It is a very powerful effect and because of that the 3 stance breakers are conditional.

Wild Blow - Low cost, low recharge, unblockable but lose all adrenaline but get critical.
Wild Throw - Costs 7 adrenaline, unblockable
Wild Strike - low cost, low recharge, OFF-HAND, blockable.

My proposed change fits the purpose of the skill. Stance Breaking. Not damage. This is supposed to be a utilitarian skill, not a primary spammable attack.

Evilsod · Mar 25, 2007, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

No....stance breaking is the purpose of Wild Blow. To cause critical damage is the bonus, kind of a payback for losing all that adrenaline.

It is a very powerful effect and because of that the 3 stance breakers are conditional.

Wild Blow - Low cost, low recharge, unblockable but lose all adrenaline but get critical.
Wild Throw - Costs 7 adrenaline, unblockable
Wild Strike - low cost, low recharge, OFF-HAND, blockable.

My proposed change fits the purpose of the skill. Stance Breaking. Not damage. This is supposed to be a utilitarian skill, not a primary spammable attack.

For a warrior it is. For a Dervish its just plain damage. The stance breaker is just a reason to favour it over other skills. It can hit 3 targets for critical damage removing upto 3 stances in the same attack for 5 energy with absolutely no penalty. This skill WAS balanced for a Primary Warrior, now its completely pathetic compared to a D/W using it. Theres no reason it should remain the same, the dervish can spam it all he likes, it can also be an unpreventable way of removing an enchantment with Grenth.

My point is a warrior would never use this as a damage skill primarily, a dervish does. Unless the Adren loss is removed warriors won't bring it for stance removal because its not worth the risk of it been useless.

lyra_song · Mar 26, 2007, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

For a warrior it is. For a Dervish its just plain damage. The stance breaker is just a reason to favour it over other skills. It can hit 3 targets for critical damage removing upto 3 stances in the same attack for 5 energy with absolutely no penalty. This skill WAS balanced for a Primary Warrior, now its completely pathetic compared to a D/W using it. Theres no reason it should remain the same, the dervish can spam it all he likes, it can also be an unpreventable way of removing an enchantment with Grenth.

My point is a warrior would never use this as a damage skill primarily, a dervish does. Unless the Adren loss is removed warriors won't bring it for stance removal because its not worth the risk of it been useless.

Yes. It is a utility move.
Dervish uses it for damage.

This is why my idea was to move it to strength and base the critical on strength.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Melee Attack: Lose All Adrenaline. If it hits, this attack has a 0-100% chance of a critical hit. If it hits, any Stance being used by your target ends. This attacked cannot be Blocked.

It will still be utilitarian for the warrior AND the dervish.

It will function basically function the same way for a warrior, although you would need to increase your strength attribute for a higher critical.

We can modify the skill to hit only 1 target for balance out the inherent AOE of the scythe.

Taking out the "lose all adrenaline" is very very radical change and shifts the purpose of the skill.

This is NOT a damage skill. It is a utility skill and should remain so.