Curse

Coran Ironclaw · Mar 14, 2007, 08:08 AM // 08:08

I didn't see this on the ideas list thread. so here goes.

I really appreciate the new challenge ladder, it is great and some people got more excited about challenges. But lets face a reality, what people do like in-game are titles. Gvg has a ladder and a title, HA has a "favor announce" and a title, so why the most competitive part of pve dont have a title?

Last version:

Challenger Title

You get 1 point every time you score a record (#50 or better). You cant get more than 1 point per day per challenge per time frame.

Example: on 1 run you score a record 5 on day, 30 on month 45 on quarterly, then you get 3 points, one for each record board. Then on another run you score a record 3 on day, 15 on month, 30 on quarterly, you get 0 more points.
The next day you come and score a record 15 on day only, you get 1 point, later the same day you score a record 5 on day, 40 on month only, you get 1 more point (you cant get more on day time frame).

This restriction of only 1 point per day per challenge per time frame is very important to prevent the best player of each challenge to overfarm the challenge and get like 150 points a day and leaving everyone else out of getting challenge title points.

Also, this promotes diversity as people will have to rotate between all challenges to get more points, preventing getting bored doing just the same thing over and over and over.

This title really promotes the create of challenge focuses guilds, because going for all the six 8-people challenges would take around 3-4 hours, with just 1 decent try on each one.

this ... is getting exciting for me =p

Here are my proposed names and points needed:

Challenger 25 points
Fierce Challenger 40 points
Mighty Challenger 75 points
Deadly Challenger 120 points
Terrifying Challenger 240 points
Conquering Challenger 370 points
Subjugating Challenger 500 points
Vanquishing Challenger 750 points
and so on...

So, a good team that manages to get 4 points everyday (doing 4 records on differents challenges) would take a little more than 4 months to arrive the Subjugating challenger level title, which i think it is ok. Note that you dont need to be the best, you just need to be inside the 50 best teams that tryed that challenge that day.

Original idea:

Challenger Title

You get 1 point every time you score a Daily record. you dont get a point if the previus record was owned by you.
(the second part is to prevent abuse, if a record day is something like 100 but you know you can do 200, this prevent you can get 100 points on title that day doing 101 and quit, then 102,...)

This title will become VERY competitive because, on a regular basis, only 1 team will attain a point per day per challenge. So if there are 8 challenges that would mean that on regular basis only 8 teams will gain a point on a day in all GW!! that would be a max of 53 people.

Here are my proposed names and points needed:

Challenger 15 points
Fierce Challenger 30 points
Mighty Challenger 50 points
Deadly Challenger 80 points
Terrifying Challenger 120 points
Conquering Challenger 170 points
Subjugating Challenger 230 points
Vanquishing Challenger 300 points
and so on...

BTW, look that attaining the Vanquishing level if your team is the best at one challenge and can do a record every day would take almost a year!

Meat Axe · Mar 14, 2007, 08:29 AM // 08:29

I don't particularly like the idea. I don't think they should add a title that relies on you being one of the best players to go through a challenge mission. Titles should be available to anyone, not just the top score of the day. Don't get me wrong, I do like the idea of a "Challenger" title. But I think maybe you should get it just for completing a challenge mission (but I'm not sure they have an end. Haven't really played them very much). If there isn't a definite end to it, maybe just make it so you progress in the title each time you get higher than a certain score in the mission. This would make it slightly more fair, but there'll still be some challenge involved.

freekedoutfish · Mar 14, 2007, 10:05 AM // 10:05

I personally cant stand challenges. Their boring, repeatative, pointless and incourage a PvP competative-ness to the PvE side.

I do appreciate that it would be nice to have a way to show your accomplishments in challenges, but isnt that what the NPC is there for.

You speak to him and see whos top of the chart.

I'd be worried that adding this title (which is realistically a PvP title because your competiting against others to be better then them), would pull people away from the PvE aspect of a compaign.

People would start camping out in challenges instead of playing the storyline.

If this was done purely on the PvP side, then im all for it. But it feels like it would be adding a PvP title to PvE. The two shouldnt mix.

Coran Ironclaw · Mar 14, 2007, 06:14 PM // 18:14

¬¬ if you dont like challenges or if you dont know what challenges are then why post here?

anyway i like to have replys, and i will try to respond somehow.

challenges dont have an end, that's the best part of them, you struggle yourself to make more points vs a very hostile environment, or time limit.

Quote:

This would make it slightly more fair

what part of the challenge title i posted is unfair? i am proposing a competitive title on pve, something new and different from what we have now.

Quote:

I'd be worried that adding this title (which is realistically a PvP title because your competiting against others to be better then them), would pull people away from the PvE aspect of a compaign.

In Challenges you fight against AI-monsters so it is pve by definition. You must score more points than other player so that makes it competitive (and not pvp). So it is a very competitive PvE title. And because it is part of pve they wont drive people away from it. And ... are you worry about having no people to do a bonus on thunderkeep? or what?

Quote:

People would start camping out in challenges instead of playing the storyline.

people who didn't finish the storyline won't be here getting points for the title, or they wouldn't end the storyline anyway.

don't be so egoist to your gameplay, challenges are part of the game also and a very needed one, they deserve their reward.

Quote:

If this was done purely on the PvP side, then im all for it. But it feels like it would be adding a PvP title to PvE. The two shouldnt mix.

again, it is not a pvp title, it is a competitive title for pve. i can understand you confuse them since there is no competitive title for pve now, and that is exactly what i am proposing.

BryanM · Mar 14, 2007, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Kind of silly.

I do support the idea of riches being rained down upon the guilds that place in quarterly, when the season ends.

Then again..... I might be a little biased in that opinion.

Meat Axe · Mar 15, 2007, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coran Ironclaw

what part of the challenge title i posted is unfair? i am proposing a competitive title on pve, something new and different from what we have now.

I believe I explained pretty well what makes it unfair. The fact that to get this title, you have to be the best player or best team to get this title, which I don't think is really fair. At least with the gamer title you're competing against various teams, so you're sometimes gonna be better, sometimes worse. However with the challenge mission, you compete against the top player or team, so there's no variation, and if you're not good enough, you're not gonna have any chance to get this title.

Also, why do you want to add competition to PvE? If you want competitive titles, go play PvP, since that is what it's there for. I like the idea of a title for this, but I think that it should have a set number of points you have to beat, not the top team.

freekedoutfish · Mar 15, 2007, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meat Axe

Also, why do you want to add competition to PvE? If you want competitive titles, go play PvP, since that is what it's there for. I like the idea of a title for this, but I think that it should have a set number of points you have to beat, not the top team.

Cheers. That was kind of my point too.

Competeing against other players, whether it be fighting or trying to earn more points then them, is more a PvP aspect. It incourages the "im better then you attitude" which is more PvP orientated. Something I think Anet tries to avoid in PvE.

But they exist anyway. I think a better use for them, (for instance in NF) would be to reward you with sunspear or lightbringer points for playing them.

Give a certain amount of points for each kill in the challenge. That I would accept and then I would see a reason to play them. It would fit more into the storyline then.

Jetdoc · Mar 15, 2007, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Excellent idea - most challenge missions are simply abandoned outposts...this would give PvEers an incentive to actually try those missions.

Skyy High · Mar 15, 2007, 02:06 PM // 14:06

PvE players are not nice, roleplaying, storyline driven, and noncompetitive. There is SO much strutting, showing off, name calling, "proving" you're the best, etc, etc. I don't see how you can say that PvE players aren't competitive.

Furthermore, even if the majority of players weren't competitive, what does it matter? The challenge missions are part of PvE; the title would be about who is the best at beating a pve scenario. So it's not simply a money sink, or a title that everyone can get in the span of a week. Are those the only types of PvE titles that are "allowed"? It's a different type of title for a different type of PvE.

As for it not being "fair"...you can't get more fair than "who is the best?" No, it won't be open to everyone, but hey, some titles just aren't supposed to be. The average PvE player also has NO chance at going for the sweet tooth or drunkard max titles, or indeed any of the money sink titles. The average PvP player won't even get a shot at getting points for the champion title. At least this title would depend on your skill, not on money. In that sense it's probably more fair than other titles.

Skye Marin · Mar 15, 2007, 03:17 PM // 15:17

I like the idea, but it needs some refinement. One point a day per challenge is pretty skimpy. What about people in different time zones?

How about, every 4 hours, one point is given to everyone in the top 10 for the daily scores of each challenge. This means that getting one really high score can earn you up to 6 points in a day, while a score that's not especially high will most likely only earn 1.

Your proposed ranking levels would still be good, but the names could be more creative than Fierce, Mighty, Deadly...

Challenger
New Challenger
Brawny Challenger
Unyeilding Challenger
Agressive Challenger
Supreme Challenger
Ultimate Challenger

And so on. :P

tenshi_strife · Mar 15, 2007, 06:17 PM // 18:17

ok why is there so much complaining about this title its not like it ruins balance.... i see no problem with adding this, also it wont stop people from compleating the story line i mean for gods sake the only people who do challenges are people that beat the game and still want to pve, really. this seems totally fair and if you dont like challenge missions THEN WHY DO YOU CARE, another title is not a huge deal, no i say to the ones complaining go back to pvp and stop whining you wont even notice if this happens.... jeeze

Meat Axe · Mar 16, 2007, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

ok why is there so much complaining about this title its not like it ruins balance.... i see no problem with adding this, also it wont stop people from compleating the story line i mean for gods sake the only people who do challenges are people that beat the game and still want to pve, really. this seems totally fair and if you dont like challenge missions THEN WHY DO YOU CARE, another title is not a huge deal, no i say to the ones complaining go back to pvp and stop whining you wont even notice if this happens.... jeeze

I only PvE. I don't really like PvP. I do quite like the challenge missions (except for remains of sahlahja) but I am no where near one of the top players. Neither are the 3 million other players that may or may not want to go for this title but don't have a chance. Now, I suggested just adding a system where you have to reach a certain number of points, instead of beating the top player. Not only will it be achievable while maintaining a level of skill that some players won't have, it'll also be easier to implement and people will actually have a chance to get it. I mean, the ones that aren't very good at the moment can train and get better, but at the same time the top players will be perfecting their methods so as never to be beaten.

You may take this post as a whine. It's not. If they implement this, I can live with it. I'm not gonna quit the game just because of a title. I'm not gonna make a new thread topic, whining about how unfair it is. I'm suggesting that they implement it in a slightly different way so that everyone has the chance to get it, even if that means weeks of practice. If you're so close-minded that you can't handle a simple suggestion that will make your idea slightly fairer while still keeping the difficulty to obtain said title, than I'll stop. But what is the point of posting a suggestion on a forum if you're gonna call everyone who disagrees, and provides reasoning for why they disagree, a whiner.

tenshi_strife · Mar 16, 2007, 03:27 AM // 03:27

lol this isnt my thread one, and 2 i was talking about the guy who was saying that competitive titles are only for pvp and that they should never implement this, yes i could see some revisions to make this easier i was just saying those who think this is HORRIBLE and should not be implemented should stop whining.

Meat Axe · Mar 16, 2007, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

lol this isnt my thread one, and 2 i was talking about the guy who was saying that competitive titles are only for pvp and that they should never implement this, yes i could see some revisions to make this easier i was just saying those who think this is HORRIBLE and should not be implemented should stop whining.

Yeah, I realised this isn't your thread just after I'd finished writing it, and couldn't be bothered changing my post. But the point still stands. Just ignore those last few lines.

Coran Ironclaw · Mar 26, 2007, 01:48 AM // 01:48

i came back.

first, lets clear something about fairness.

so you say that if people are not skilled enough to score a record it is unfair because they can't obtain the title? ... that's completely wrong, it is the same as saying that it is unfair that i can't get gladiator title because i always lose, or it is unfair i can't get survivor because i always die.
This title as I originally suggested is completely fair, everyone can go and if they are skilled enough can obtain their points.

The word you are looking is "restrictive" but not "fair", will many be able to obtain the title?, actually no with the original idea.

the system you are suggesting about giving a fixed amount of points on each challenge to be awarded by a title point would completely be against the spirit of the challenge itself. It will also create repetitive secuences in order to obtain the points and that will only create just another farm-title, which i would be really disappointed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by meat axe

Also, why do you want to add competition to PvE? If you want competitive titles, go play PvP, since that is what it's there for. I like the idea of a title for this, but I think that it should have a set number of points you have to beat, not the top team.

Then i think you really dont understand what challenges are.
Challenges are meant to be competitive, (hence the word "challenge" and all the record stuff), the intention is to compite against other people in a pve environment, so a title based on challenges should be competitive by nature also.

But, thinking on it, the original idea is actually too much restrictive, so general people wont be more interested on challenges because they wont be able to get points anyway.

So, i made a few tweaks, now you will obtain a point everytime your team gets a record on the board, and because now it shows all the best 50 and not only the best 10, on a regular day 50 teams can obtain title points.
(see the first post of this thread for details).

The most important thing is the restriction of only 1 point per day per challenge per time frame, instead of the "you dont get a point if the previus record was owned by you" as I explain on the first post of this thread.

tenshi_strife · Mar 26, 2007, 06:01 PM // 18:01

yea that sounds good, it would make me do more challenge mission heh...

Not A Fifty Five · Mar 26, 2007, 08:23 PM // 20:23

/signed

I think people should get more points based on how high their score was. If you get on daily, you would get 1 point.

Monthly, 5 points

All-time 20 points.

One gain in points per category per day for a max of 26 points.

Edit: This way, anyone can get the title AND people who work very hard and who like challenges can play more then once a day to try and get the title.

Bane of Worlds · Mar 27, 2007, 02:07 AM // 02:07

/signed
also I like the recommendation above me too

rohara · Mar 27, 2007, 03:41 AM // 03:41

how about, instead of only awarding the top team, the points are given for the points you score in the challenge mission itself? the scale would have to be adjusted, ofc, from the OP's post. i'd sign for that. the top team gets enough glory from having their name/guild listed at the NPC.