Curse

Frantic-Sheep · Mar 27, 2007, 03:58 PM // 15:58

I had a talk with a guy about Guild Wars. One thing that he commented on was that making a good build requires pretty deep knowledge of the game, and casual players might not always want that. Guild Wars used to have prebuilds, which allowed beginning players to choose a build and start fighting.

My suggestion is to implement that again, just this time with the templates. Make a NPC in the training area where you can load some builds made by someone from ArenaNet (or whoever they think is best suited), that updates it every now and then (if needed, like after a nerf/update). The skills arent unlocked, but still playable (just as templates used to).

This doesn't drastically lower the learning curve (you still dont know the build when you load it, and how to use it), but at least have a decent build ready for use and get in the fighting.

Tark Alkerk · Mar 27, 2007, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frantic-Sheep

I had a talk with a guy about Guild Wars. One thing that he commented on was that making a good build requires pretty deep knowledge of the game, and casual players might not always want that. Guild Wars used to have prebuilds, which allowed beginning players to choose a build and start fighting.

My suggestion is to implement that again, just this time with the templates. Make a NPC in the training area where you can load some builds made by someone from ArenaNet (or whoever they think is best suited), that updates it every now and then (if needed, like after a nerf/update). The skills arent unlocked, but still playable (just as templates used to).

This doesn't drastically lower the learning curve (you still dont know the build when you load it, and how to use it), but at least have a decent build ready for use and get in the fighting.

gets a yes from me, i like the bit i have underlined the most

EternalTempest · Mar 27, 2007, 04:15 PM // 16:15

/signed

They even are giving away "basic" builds on there web site.
It doesn't even have to be "complete" it could be 5-6 skills and some guidlines for adding the rest.

McMullen · Mar 27, 2007, 04:15 PM // 16:15

I think it's a great idea, although i think they should only use core skills for the sake of simplicity.

Mohnzh · Mar 27, 2007, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Hmmm...maybe. It kind of depends on how advanced these pre-builds would be. First off, if they are nerfable, then I think the skills they include are too advanced and should not be just displayed to everybody. Hard-core gamers (which I am not) spend a lot of time trial-and-error figuring out the best builds and I don't think it would be fair to have some admin/dev just pass those out to the general populace. Second, I don't think template builds should include any elite skills. I think if this were to be done, it should consist of a skill-set that only contains skills learned very early on, is balanced so that it includes a couple of different attributes AND teaches energy management vs damage/healing output. But nothing tricky. I would categorize myself at a level slightly higher than just a casual gamer, and I spent a lot of time developing my build (especially what elite worked best for my style) and am very proud of it while holding a lot of respect for more advanced gamers that seem to be god-like. As each player develops, that player will develop a style which will be most complimented by skills that are not readily available. I think it's best to let them find that out for themselves.

tenshi_strife · Mar 27, 2007, 05:40 PM // 17:40

well they should do the old pre-builts, perfectly sutable for Ra but not much else, and they should include elites cause a bar without an elite is not a bar at all without stratgy really so yea /signed

OhCrapLions · Mar 28, 2007, 05:06 AM // 05:06

I think they should make a database and a system that sees what skills you have and searches its own database of pre-made builds to see what you can use. Each template should have its own how-to-and-when-to manual as well.

placebo overdose · Mar 28, 2007, 05:18 AM // 05:18

i love this idea it is great for when people are entering pvp and need guidlines or want to test elites

note:to who ever said core only just make diff templates for ea. campaign and you can only see the ones from campaigns you have

Puebert · Mar 28, 2007, 05:48 AM // 05:48

/signed.

-sniff- I miss the Paladin.

Bankai · Mar 28, 2007, 06:25 AM // 06:25

Has been suggested multiple times before.

/signed.

Frantic-Sheep · Mar 28, 2007, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Mohnzh:
nerfing doesn't mean too advanced, just too powerful, and mostly in combination with others, or multiple copies.
Generally its not about min maxing those 8 skills, but how to use them.

Yeah, I was afraid this was already suggested.. but I hadn't time to search long (had to go

) Still hope it once again gets into attention.

El Chialde · Mar 28, 2007, 07:06 AM // 07:06

/signed
they could just use core skills because there are builds made from core skills only
ie. barrage/pet ranger

freekedoutfish · Mar 28, 2007, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frantic-Sheep

...One thing that he commented on was that making a good build requires pretty deep knowledge of the game....

If your talking about PvE then I have to disagree. While I love PvE and I dont want to devalue it; you have to admit that making a decent build to get you through the game isnt hard or even required.

You can basically use any old combination of skills to complete missions and quests. You could even just stand there and do nothing and let your AI kill everything while you direct them.

I think a good thing would be if the NPC skill trainers ingame showed you a long list of example builds in PvE and suggested their advantages and disadvantages. Have an extra choice in their speach menu saying "show me possible builds I could use."

It would talk about good and bad aspects. Anet would update these somehow.

Obviously you couldnt use those builds unless you had all the skills, but it might give you an idea of what to aim for and what to/not do do.

But cookie-cut builds are something we should try to avoid. One fun part of GWs is experiementing and if we incourage people to use set builds, it kills that.

Plus you end up with parties asking you to use a cookie-cut build, and if you dont they kick you.

Im playing a Rit at the moment and nearly everyone asks me to heal when I enter a party. I dont heal!!! I do dmg because I enjoy it. So cookie-cut builds and stereotype builds are not always a good thing.

Im /signed for adding example builds to NPC skill trainers to educate people on example builds.

/not signed on giving away fully made builds that people can just pick up and use from a trainer, because then it removes any need to experiment yourself.

Raxxman · Mar 28, 2007, 12:30 PM // 12:30

doesn't really remove the need, more gives you a guideline. You can still play around with stuff.

Kuldebar Valiturus · Mar 28, 2007, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Incorporate this idea into the Isle of the Nameless perhaps, or something similar.

max gladius · Mar 28, 2007, 01:40 PM // 13:40

i think that it would help and hinder....

Help: some ppl have no idea what an ele does, or how to use one, it would give them an idea of what skills work together and such, and could take someone an hour to go through each skill to see what they should unlock...

Hinder: same guy just uses a build that is premade, he might slowly figure out how it works... but, causes more ppl to rage quit in RA cause he is clueless (had to put that in there)... and doesnt really understand their build...

I think it would be cool to have premade build available, because it does realy help those ppl who want to learn and see what is popular... but only have the premade build have 4-5/8 skills, just give them the basic background type skills... then let them choose 3-4 for themselves... I think that will accomplish both goals....

Looking at an empty skill bar, or close to it is alot more intimidating to a new player then looking at having to fill 3-4 slots...

/halfsigned

MithranArkanere · Mar 28, 2007, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Yup... not everyone go to Guild Wiki to get builds or read the articles in GW.com to see the examples they gave out...

At least some premade build and a guy in the Isle of Nameless telling you them and making them in your template folder...

- You talk to him, he tell you the build (it appears in te folder, created by the client) you put it, go back to that NPC and use it...

Ding!

Frantic-Sheep · Mar 28, 2007, 02:58 PM // 14:58

max_gladius: People RQ because he has no clue what to do? People who go in RA with some weird self-made random skill set hardly know how to use it as well.. they just spam it. So I disagree there.

I say, dont do half the work. Give a total prebuild, and people can still throw away stuff they dont like, and throw stuff in they do like.. (and they will too, as it happened with previous templates)

Freekedoutfish: No was talking about pvp, its what this template thing is about. And dont worry, giving away 8 skills will not make people scared of trying stuff out.. because they will see other people with other builds in RA, and will be inspired by those most likely.. or get bored from those 8 skills after a while.. and improve those with their own.

legion_rat · Mar 28, 2007, 05:02 PM // 17:02

/signed

~the rat~