Curse

arcanemacabre · Mar 15, 2007, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Oops... I think I see where the confusion is coming in. I meant current max health, not current health.

sorry!

Tarun · Mar 15, 2007, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

yeah, I know about hidden degen. I'm not a noob.
You made it sound like 'it may show 10 arrows but in fact you lose 30 health per second' (that's what I read anyway)

Not everyone knows, but now they who read these posts will know.

Not A Fifty Five · Mar 15, 2007, 10:58 PM // 22:58

heh, well I suggest you take out the word current and just use max health

I don't think anyone thought you meant current max health lol.

tenshi_strife · Mar 15, 2007, 11:21 PM // 23:21

i did, cause current health is a dumb thing to base on but yea you should put in max lol

Darko_UK · Mar 15, 2007, 11:32 PM // 23:32

It's more then powerful enough as it is.

Kashrlyyk · Mar 16, 2007, 01:21 AM // 01:21

What is the average dps a warrior can do? 40?

tenshi_strife · Mar 16, 2007, 03:32 AM // 03:32

yea but warriors are NOT damage dealers... they can apply pressure but not much damage, if your saying this is overpowered then think of eles dps, which with a good build can do over 70 to 80 dps at a minimum also the degen revamp will be good cause it will be balanced well cause those with low health will be affected the same as thoses with high health

arcanemacabre · Mar 16, 2007, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

i did, cause current health is a dumb thing to base on but yea you should put in max lol

heh, I amended that in the OP, now. Sorry!

Div · Mar 16, 2007, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Uh, do you guys pvp at all? Degen pressure is already insanely powerful (if you don't believe me, watch Kry or some degen pressure team play it), and if you increase your damage to 5% per second (~30 health loss), it'd be like bumping the damage up the roof and destroying the entire game of guild wars. Every team will be degen pressure, and all monks will carry 3 hex removals, 3 condition removals, and no prots since it's not needed.

For the most part, Anet balances this game for pvp, not because your little conjure phantasm doesn't do anything in pve and no one wants a mesmer degener. Imagine if you did conjure nightmare on lich, shiro, or abaddon now with 5% health loss/sec? Even pve will be retarded...

And it sounds like some people want to 55 farm but they get owned by degen, so they have to sign something like this.

/NOTsigned, and anyone who signs this clearly isn't thinking things through.

tenshi_strife · Mar 16, 2007, 04:01 AM // 04:01

currently degen is good as pressure but currently thats it as a serious source of damage its not that great, also this would balance it more, ok so lets say not .5% but rather .2%, this would make it less powerful but it would make degen the same no matter what their max health, which is how i picture degen. also saying that degen is over powed because of one group of skilled players is not wise. if thats the case EVERY CLASS IS OVERPOWERED a good ranger spike kills, a good ele pressure kills, hell even good iways killed. so god players useing degen wisely does not account for this not being revamped. if this was the case nothing would be changed cause there is always some group of people that can work well with the current set up, its a matter of making the greater populace able to use this much more viable. ALSO this is applied for regen too to make skills like healing breeze more usable, so saying 55s want this is really unfounded because it RUINS their builds, also this helps high health tank use breeze and mending with much more use. so truly i do think this needs added and i still /sign and yes i have thought this through

MirageMaster · Mar 16, 2007, 04:36 AM // 04:36

/signed lol i like it.
dont care about 55 or the stupid pvp.

Div · Mar 16, 2007, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

also this helps high health tank use breeze and mending with much more use. so truly i do think this needs added and i still /sign and yes i have thought this through

Quote:

Originally Posted by MirageMaster

/signed lol i like it.
dont care about 55 or the stupid pvp.

As I've pointed out, people are posting /signed without even caring about the consequences. Also, degen greatly helps out 55 monks to the point they don't even need healing breeze or any regen because all they need to do is cast one spell for divine favor to heal them completely, and a -4 degen will take 50 seconds (under the 0.5% rule) and 2+ minutes (under the 0.2% rule) to kill a 55 monk, as opposed to 7 seconds as it stands.

If I propose something retarded like "I think all monsters should drop 10x as much gold and have a 100x better chance of dropping greens" there will still be more people that sign it than those that disagree given this kind of community.

Funny how the only other guy that disagrees with this idea (similar to me) in the thread is someone who is more known in these forums and knows what he is talking about. Everyone who is clueless just /sign it...

arcanemacabre · Mar 16, 2007, 06:35 AM // 06:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Uh, do you guys pvp at all? Degen pressure is already insanely powerful (if you don't believe me, watch Kry or some degen pressure team play it), and if you increase your damage to 5% per second (~30 health loss), it'd be like bumping the damage up the roof and destroying the entire game of guild wars. Every team will be degen pressure, and all monks will carry 3 hex removals, 3 condition removals, and no prots since it's not needed.

For the most part, Anet balances this game for pvp, not because your little conjure phantasm doesn't do anything in pve and no one wants a mesmer degener. Imagine if you did conjure nightmare on lich, shiro, or abaddon now with 5% health loss/sec? Even pve will be retarded...

While I agree that this could potentially overpower certain skills/builds, that can be easily remedied by tweaking numbers. Either make those certain skills a little less powerful (lengthen cast times or recharge, or shorten effect lengths), or as tenshi said, maybe not .5%, but .3-.4%. At .3%, anyone between 500-800hp would be losing 2hp/sec for each pip - how it is now. Sounds balanced to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

And it sounds like some people want to 55 farm but they get owned by degen, so they have to sign something like this.

I'm not sure what you know about 55'ers, but this idea would certainly kill the build entirely. Why? Because this involves regen as well, which I think you are missing. The 55 relies on being able to continuously heal all damage they receive, which is minimalized by Prot Spirit. Their regen would be seriously gimped since it would be a minimal 3hp/sec at 10 pips of regen, and .5%. At .3%, it would be 2hp/sec at 10 pips.

Thanks for the critical feedback, though, since you do bring up good points. I think a drop to .3-.4% sounds fine, but the number isn't really the point. The main point of the concept is a percentage of health, an even amount no matter the target's max health at the moment. The rest is just balance issues that can be worked out in testing or whatever.

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Also, degen greatly helps out 55 monks to the point they don't even need healing breeze or any regen because all they need to do is cast one spell for divine favor to heal them completely, and a -4 degen will take 50 seconds (under the 0.5% rule) and 2+ minutes (under the 0.2% rule) to kill a 55 monk, as opposed to 7 seconds as it stands.

The 55 would not only be assaulted with degen, but also normal attacks. The regen as it is now is what covers the normal attacks and keeps them alive. With gimped regen because their health is too low, nothing can really save them. True that degen won't affect them as much, either, but the attacks and other sources of damage still assault the 55'er.

icedwhitemocha · Mar 16, 2007, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

yea but warriors are NOT damage dealers... they can apply pressure but not much damage, if your saying this is overpowered then think of eles dps, which with a good build can do over 70 to 80 dps at a minimum also the degen revamp will be good cause it will be balanced well cause those with low health will be affected the same as thoses with high health

You have been misinformed sir.

Interesting idea, but I don't think its broken enough to warrant fixing.
/notsigned

Div · Mar 16, 2007, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

While I agree that this could potentially overpower certain skills/builds, that can be easily remedied by tweaking numbers. Either make those certain skills a little less powerful (lengthen cast times or recharge, or shorten effect lengths), or as tenshi said, maybe not .5%, but .3-.4%. At .3%, anyone between 500-800hp would be losing 2hp/sec for each pip - how it is now. Sounds balanced to me.

I'm not sure what you know about 55'ers, but this idea would certainly kill the build entirely. Why? Because this involves regen as well, which I think you are missing. The 55 relies on being able to continuously heal all damage they receive, which is minimalized by Prot Spirit. Their regen would be seriously gimped since it would be a minimal 3hp/sec at 10 pips of regen, and .5%. At .3%, it would be 2hp/sec at 10 pips.

Thanks for the critical feedback, though, since you do bring up good points. I think a drop to .3-.4% sounds fine, but the number isn't really the point. The main point of the concept is a percentage of health, an even amount no matter the target's max health at the moment. The rest is just balance issues that can be worked out in testing or whatever.

EDIT:

The 55 would not only be assaulted with degen, but also normal attacks. The regen as it is now is what covers the normal attacks and keeps them alive. With gimped regen because their health is too low, nothing can really save them. True that degen won't affect them as much, either, but the attacks and other sources of damage still assault the 55'er.

Ever tried such thing as SoA 55/105? Probably not...if you haven't, go look at guildwiki.org and try it out before coming back to argue again. I really think that anet should just balance skills instead of trying to add another new element of balancing degen into the game as well. They have enough work as it is, and don't need to be overwhelmed with a plethora of mediocre to less-than-mediocre ideas.

Thomas.knbk · Mar 16, 2007, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

think of eles dps, which with a good build can do over 70 to 80 dps at a minimum

....................
Pardon me? Give me a build that can ditch out 70-80 DPS please. I'll immediately make a team full of them.
Oh wait. They can't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

currently degen is good as pressure but currently thats it

That's exactly what it's supposed to be. And it's good at it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

also this would balance it more,

It'd be really, really overpowered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

ok so lets say not .5% but rather .2%

Now you're contradicting yourself. This would make it significantly weaker than it is now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

also saying that degen is over powed because of one group of skilled players is not wise. if thats the case EVERY CLASS IS OVERPOWERED, a good ranger spike kills, a good ele pressure kills, hell even good iways killed

You're the first person in this thread to make that statement.
And ironically, if a group of skilled players can use something too effective it will be nerfed. (e.g. the aforementioned iway, ranger spike)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

ALSO this is applied for regen too to make skills like healing breeze more usable

Healing Breeze would still suck hard if this was implemented. Slightly less than it does now, but still hard. It would be the worst skill in the game if 2% would be implemented.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

also this helps high health tank use breeze and mending with much more use. so truly i do think this needs added and i still /sign and yes i have thought this through

Wow......you want to change a game mechanic because it helps high health mending wammos?

Sorry, if it feels like I'm bashing you dude, but that post was so full of shit, I had to correct a few things.
And please, please use paragraphs, or at least sentences instead of just one seperated by commas.

I still won't /sign the idea, as you might have thought. Re/Degeneration isn't broken, so don't fix it imo. It may be slightly overpowered in 55 farm builds, but changing a game mechanic should be the last resort in fixing a farm build. I think changing Prot Spirit to 'reduces dmg to 10%, minimum 20/30, would be a much better change, and one that wouldn't affect PvP at all.

Wild Karrde · Mar 16, 2007, 02:18 PM // 14:18

/NOTSIGNED

Degen is powerful enough as it is, as some of the posts in here have already stated, and did anyone think about condtion applying assassins? then all the assassins would just be condition applyers.

This proposal would have serious consequences.

glountz · Mar 16, 2007, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

I think changing Prot Spirit to 'reduces dmg to 10%, minimum 20/30, would be a much better change, and one that wouldn't affect PvP at all.

To kill 55, you are right, it is not the regen mechanic that have to be changed, but Prot spirit.
10% health means you reduce damage to a certain amount regardless of max health, or armor.
Prot spirit should be changed to "reduce damage to 80...48....40 HP lost" instead of a percentage of your max health.

legion_rat · Mar 16, 2007, 06:50 PM // 18:50

I walked through most of nightfall with a degen (sin) build. multiple conditions on everyone via epidemic eats any fleshy creature alive fast. add in other problems like hexes from necros and then general beatings given by warriors and devishes and degen can be very bad. Conditions/degen is fine how it is in PvE, the monk AI cant keep up with that much health loss. ESP if the monk is the first one you hit. Now in PvP that may be different, I dont know i never do it.

~the rat~

*bleeding,poison,deepwound,blind,epidemic take that monks*

tenshi_strife · Mar 16, 2007, 10:41 PM // 22:41

ok lets adress this one problem at a time

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

....................
Pardon me? Give me a build that can ditch out 70-80 DPS please. I'll immediately make a team full of them.
Oh wait. They can't.

gladly
[skill]searing flames[/skill][skill]glowing gaze[/skill][skill]mark of rodgort[/skill][skill]meteor shower[/skill][skill]glyph of sacrifice[/skill][skill]fire attunement[/skill][skill]aura of restoration[/skill][skill]resurrection chant[/skill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

That's exactly what it's supposed to be. And it's good at it.

i can see it as more of a damage thing but ok

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

It'd be really, really overpowered.

i think making it a percentage based thing would be much more balanced for those with lower health or higher health

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

Now you're contradicting yourself. This would make it significantly weaker than it is now.

i didn't figure the numbers out i just was throwing something out, i think it should be percentage based is my point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

You're the first person in this thread to make that statement.
And ironically, if a group of skilled players can use something too effective it will be nerfed. (e.g. the aforementioned iway, ranger spike)

no im not the first someone stated that degen owned because of how one team uses it, also i believe builds should not be nerfed because of one group thats just dumb but you may be right the probably do anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

Healing Breeze would still suck hard if this was implemented. Slightly less than it does now, but still hard. It would be the worst skill in the game if 2% would be implemented.

like i said above not checking my numbers right now

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

Wow......you want to change a game mechanic because it helps high health mending wammos?

no i hate wammos i was just giving an instance of why this would help

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

Sorry, if it feels like I'm bashing you dude, but that post was so full of shit, I had to correct a few things.

im not totally full of shit but i do appreciate you insight

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

And please, please use paragraphs, or at least sentences instead of just one seperated by commas.

yes i am notorious for that and i will try to fix it

i think that covers it and im still /signing