Curse

akurun · Apr 06, 2007, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Glathil

I did invest in energy management, you fool. I invested -75 hitpoints and 97 attribute points in it. Now you're telling me that this just "isn't enough" and that I need to get a secondary to help manage energy.

Do you realize that you are still gaining 3 or 3.2 energy every second if it triggers every 5 seconds? That outclasses most of the energy management skills in the game combined. Most energy regain offers less than 1 pip of energy, including elite energy management skills, when this level of soul reaping that you mentioned(15 or 16) provides 9-10 pips in addition to your inherent 4 pips.

Also, what's wrong with being a support class? Support doesn't just mean healing. It includes most things that don't directly involve killing things.

Concerning the suggestion of nerfing other primary attributes, fast casting is already weaker than others. Spawning power is absolutely useless for all but one build in terms of its passive benefit, and that one build, the Ritual Lord, is barely surviving. Energy storage honestly isn't that important except for its skills, although about 9 or so's usually a good idea if you've not got more important things to put attributes in. Expertise is sweet, and honestly, the rangers would die without it, because most of their useful skills are 10 or 15 energy, and they've got 5 less energy and 1 less pip of regen than casters. Strength is utterly useless, except for its skills. In pve, it's useless because not many warriors are built for damage, and for those that aren't see the pvp section of my explanation. In pvp, strength's passive benefit is useless because it doesn't stack with things like Sundering. Divine Favor's pretty important, both for making mo/ monks better than /mo monks and for its skills. Critical Strikes is an assassin's energy management. Their skillbar usually has no room for survivability, much less energy-management, so they bring about 13 critical strikes and get 3 energy when they crit, which isn't much energy, but it's better than nothing. Mysticism is good for skills and has a decent synergy with low duration enchants and things like aegis chains. Leadership is nice energy management, although fairly conditional, and has some good skills. Soul reaping, by contrast, not only has some decent skills, but is absolutely the best energy-management in the game, if it's triggering even once every 5 seconds.

If soul reaping doesn't trigger once every 5 seconds for you, the change has no effect on you, so stop complaining.

Sk8tborderx · Apr 06, 2007, 04:51 PM // 16:51

I gave Olias my regular MM build, and Master of Whispers a standard SS build, BOTH of them had NO energy problems, if they can manage, I am pretty sure a human player could do it also. (Unless of course you think that the AI can play a necro better than you, in which case, please play a different profession.)

Phe Belladona · Apr 06, 2007, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8tborderx

Unless of course you think that the AI can play a necro better than you

im pretty sure a bot MM is better in most cases anyway - they are godlike at death nova microing

Sk8tborderx · Apr 06, 2007, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phe Belladona

im pretty sure a bot MM is better in most cases anyway - they are godlike at death nova microing

But, when the ai is managing energy better than you, you are doing something wrong.

tyche7 · Apr 06, 2007, 05:12 PM // 17:12

/signed to change this back to the way it WAS.

I could go on and on and on why it needs to be the way it was and nerfing it is needless but I'm at work at the moment ~(-;

BlackSephir · Apr 06, 2007, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

/signed to change this back to the way it WAS.

lawl... When you get back home don't forget to edit your post and tell us why SR needs to be returned to previous state ^^

Muspellsheimr · Apr 06, 2007, 05:23 PM // 17:23

First, I agree that A change was needed in the Soul Reaping mechanic for balance purposes. However, this change was overkill. I noticed the change immediatly when I played with my necromancer (favorate class). I did not have any problems with energy management - but that is due primarily to my play style (I have never had energy problems without an e-denial harrassing me, and I rairly play with more than 4 or 5 in Soul Reaping).

The problem with Soul Reaping was its ability to be abused when used with spirit spammers. The solution should have been quite simple. Make it so Soul Reaping does not provide energy from spirit deaths. If minions were still causing a problem, reduce the energy gain from minions to half. This would have fixed the balance problem effectivly, without causing the mechanic significant harm.

And just another bit of information for all of you concerned about your precious minions (worst necromancer setup ever) - the minion master setup is the build LEAST affected by this change.

Soul of the Scythe · Apr 06, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31

On making Soul Reaping not work when minions or spirits died:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrTickle

That's the idea!!! Then the ABUSE of SR will stop.

So you think the way to go is to make this primary attribute REALISTICALLY useless for PvP, so you and all your other whiners in this thread don't have to work to tweak your precious Necros and actually have to manage energy effectively like every other class? I have a Necro and, as i said before, don't play him very frequently because SR was overpowered. It was boring for me to play a Necro, everything was way too easy. I rarely ever ran out of energy. It wasn't challenging.

I do not PvP at all. However I fully understand that PvP is WAY more important in terms of balancing than PvE. PvE is easy no matter what Anet does to it.

This game is all about adapting. Anet changed it, deal with it. If you want to get back at em, then prove to them you can succeed even with their, as you call, crappy "update". I may not necessarily agree with every update they have made, but I'm not gonna sit in a forum and whine about it, I'm gonna go out and fix my builds to work with the updates.

gasmaskman · Apr 06, 2007, 05:40 PM // 17:40

PvE never care about overpowered stuff until it's nerfed.

There's a reason everyone and their mother asked for a MM in PvE.

Mercy's Mirror · Apr 06, 2007, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muspellsheimr

And just another bit of information for all of you concerned about your precious minions (worst necromancer setup ever) - the minion master setup is the build LEAST affected by this change.

I agree, although I do enjoy playing MM from time to time. I just went through Vizunah Square on my Necro as an MM. I went straight Death and SR, with 13 in SR. I brought Taste of Death with me and Consume Corpse, and used Reaper's Mark for a bit more energy management.

That said, there were times even in Vizunah where I had to wait for enough energy to 'Taste' a minion so I could boost my energy levels. I admit, I went with my two favorite minions (mostly because it pains me to know that ANet reduced the cost of minions that I rarely use or see used in PvE) which was more energy intensive.

In missions like that, I rarely heal my minions, since I try to raise them as soon as a corpse becomes available (which in turn allows me to gain energy from the dying minion - if this weren't the case and SR stayed nerfed, this build probably wouldn't be viable in a lot of places.)

A friend in my party, who set up as an SS, was regularly suffering from lack of energy despite the massive amount of deaths taking place in that mission. He claimed he regularly hovered around 15 energy, and found himself waiting for another death that happened to coincide with the 5-second rule.

cyberjanet · Apr 06, 2007, 06:08 PM // 18:08

I'm going to have to start from scratch learning how to play necro again. Nothing works any more.

Glints Bane · Apr 06, 2007, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Ok I keep seeing that many people have the same point which is "it just makes the game harder"...well thats not the point I'm getting at. The point is PvP wanted the change, they got what they wanted but it screwed with PvE. Now would it be so hard for Anet to make it so that Soul reaping isn't triggered from souls? you see anet just goes and nerfs and it seems that they dont even think about PvE...yeah so what I have to manage my energy with an energy skill, I dont care about that. My point is that Anet could have come up with a better way to "dumb" down soul reaping...but instead they just slapped on a 5 second cool down...its like saying mesmers can only fast cast every 5 seconds...or a sins critical hit can only take place every 5 seconds...Anet just didn't seem like they actually thought this through.

Nekretaal · Apr 06, 2007, 06:17 PM // 18:17

/signed

There's been too much news coming rgarding GW in too narrow a time span. A lot of the stuff that's happened is stuff I dont support dont like. I liked 6v6, I liked kill count (soon to go we all know it), I dont like the fact that there are no new expansions, and I liked my primary character necro, even though I knew that there were aspects of the game that she couldnt take place in because her skills are too weak to compensate for a good primary (ever seen a Necro FOW chest runner?). The builds she used are dead to me now.

If I have to play "BiP" to get into a group for hard mode, that will make me quit entirely. After reading the posters on this board (at least those posters who anet listens too), I dont think I'm the type of player that anet wants to have in its game.

Mike_version2 · Apr 06, 2007, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberjanet

I'm going to have to start from scratch learning how to play necro again. Nothing works any more.

Nothing works? Just because you cant spam all those high energy spells doesn't mean nothing works, all you have to not do is not spam them every bloody second.

Yankel D · Apr 06, 2007, 06:24 PM // 18:24

You people honestly complain like no other class has ever been nerfed, and no one else understand what it's like.

SR was honestly killing PvP, and I'm happy to see that something's being done with it. You all complain about having to relearn how to play a necromancer? That seems a bit extreme and over-dramatic. Stop complaining and figure out a solution for your problem: I'm sure there are plenty out there.

Glints Bane · Apr 06, 2007, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yankel D

You people honestly complain like no other class has ever been nerfed, and no one else understand what it's like.

SR was honestly killing PvP, and I'm happy to see that something's being done with it. You all complain about having to relearn how to play a necromancer? That seems a bit extreme and over-dramatic. Stop complaining and figure out a solution for your problem: I'm sure there are plenty out there.

yeah first dont tell us not to complain...because this all started with the complaining of PvP players and we have the right as costomers to complain about whatever we want(in this case soul reaping nerf). I know other classes have been nerfed...but has their primary attribute been nerfed? I think not. I'm not going to lie soul reapping was getting bad in PvP because of spirit spammers....but how hard could it actually have been to just make it so that spirits dont give energy after their death?

Before spirit spammers Soul reaping was never a problem but when it becaomes a problem Anet nerfs the hell out of the whole thing instead of just fixing the current(and only) problem.

lishi · Apr 06, 2007, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercy's Mirror

Barely understand? No I understand quite well what is going on here. However, I refuse to stoop to your level in my response. It is quite possible that I was in the middle of writing my post when you posted yours, you know....

Oh, and I'm not a 'he'.

Edited to respond to Mendes' earlier post:

"With 10 in soul reaping, triggering soul reaping every 5 seconds means that you have an average gain of 2 energy per second. This is the equivalent of 6 EXTRA energy regen. This is post nerf"

I don't know many PvE necros who have 10 in SR. That's a luxury that many builds simply cannot afford.

mhh to have 10 in soul reaping is only 9 + 1.

now i dont have the game now but it think is about 45 point of attribute.

you can have easly

12+ 4
9+ 1
9 +1

and yes , you cannot pretend to make a build who have a attribute to 16 and other 3-4 attribute at decent level

Nekretaal · Apr 06, 2007, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yankel D

You people honestly complain like no other class has ever been nerfed, and no one else understand what it's like.

No other class has had its primary nerfed. So, yes, no one else would understand what its like.

para.normal · Apr 06, 2007, 06:45 PM // 18:45

My main char is a nec, and I'm primarily PvE only, and the change to SR has crippled the use of my character. I can no longer churn out minions the way I used to be able to, but I don't just MM all the time either. My SS build will have problems maintaining energy, the increased cost to Reckless Haste makes it worse. I'll never be able to be my own battery. Yeah, there's Offering of Blood but I'm sure every other necro out there has some other elite they'd rather use. And how often do you see two necs in a party just so they can put Blood Ritual on each other? In my opinion, the change to SR has ruined what made it so great to be a primary necromancer. I can understand though why this change would be needed in PvP play, but not everyone who plays GW cares about PvP. I don't. Everytime there's a "skill-balance" change, it seems to benefit PvP only, and messes up things for PvE, so I think the only good way to keep everyone happy is to create two seperate skill sets, one for each. Till then I think I just might turn my ele into a minion master and have some poor, energy-drained necro give me BR every 5 seconds.

lishi · Apr 06, 2007, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by para.normal

My main char is a nec, and I'm primarily PvE only, and the change to SR has crippled the use of my character. I can no longer churn out minions the way I used to be able to, but I don't just MM all the time either. My SS build will have problems maintaining energy, the increased cost to Reckless Haste makes it worse. I'll never be able to be my own battery. Yeah, there's Offering of Blood but I'm sure every other necro out there has some other elite they'd rather use. And how often do you see two necs in a party just so they can put Blood Ritual on each other? In my opinion, the change to SR has ruined what made it so great to be a primary necromancer. I can understand though why this change would be needed in PvP play, but not everyone who plays GW cares about PvP. I don't. Everytime there's a "skill-balance" change, it seems to benefit PvP only, and messes up things for PvE, so I think the only good way to keep everyone happy is to create two seperate skill sets, one for each. Till then I think I just might turn my ele into a minion master and have some poor, energy-drained necro give me BR every 5 seconds.

all skill balance benefic pvp mostly because a overpowered skill don't bother pve.

infact having a overpowered skill make the pve more fun for a large base of player.