Curse

gameshoes3003 · Apr 11, 2007, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Okay, if you look at the water elementalist skills, this is comparatively the worst self-enchantment.
Armor of Frost: 5 energy 1 second casting time, 45 second recharge time
Enchantment Spell. For 10...29 seconds, you gain +40 armor against physical damage. Armor of Frost ends if you use any Fire Magic.

Here's the doppelganger to this skill which can be considered to be much better.
Frigid Armor: 5 energy, 1 second casting time, 20 second recharge time
Enchantment Spell. For 10...22 seconds, you have +10...34 armor against physical damage and cannot be set on fire.

Compare the two skills, which one would you use? Well logically it'd be Frigid Armor. You can actually frigid armor continuously and have it up all the time (at 11 water magic minimum, have to include casting time). Where as Armor of Frost only lasts for 29 seconds at 12 water magic then you must wait for 16 seconds for it to recast it from the expiration time.
Also, the armor between the two, Armor of Frost gives you +40 (vs. physical) all the time, sure that's great an all, but Frigid armor gives you +34 (vs. physical at 12 water magic). Not much of a difference eh? Even at 10 water magic Frigid Armor offers +30 armor.
Another comparison, Frigid Armor makes it where you cannot be set on fire, where as Armor of Frost can be affected by fire. But if you cast fire magic, well why even have Armor of Frost? But who doesn't want immunity to fire? We all kind of do since it's the highest health degenerating condition for a short duration.
In conclusion Frigid Armor is comparatively better than Armor of Frost. I'm suggesting that Armor of Frost should be buffed. I was thinking +24 armor vs. fire, but I'm not sure how to balance it out, all I know is that it's not a very good skill.

Winterclaw · Apr 11, 2007, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Both have their uses. AoF has been around for a while while FA was newer, and sadly breaks with what anet had said about not needing new chapters to be competitive. For the first one, you are garunteed 40 armor no matter what. The second one isn't the same.

However I have to agree with you that the latter is better and the first one could use a buff somehow. Especially since in the later chapters enchantment stripping has become a little more common. Of course if ANet sees this, they'll probably take the easy route and nerf FA.

I think the first thing that should be done is either extend the legnth that AoF stays on the caster or reduce it's recharge to 30 seconds. Since cold damage isn't that common, maybe give it +20AL vs cold as well. IMO giving up the ability to use the powerful line of fire spells and keep the enchantment up needs some good bonus.

But I think water magic is going to stay the neglected skill line at least until GW2 comes out.

gameshoes3003 · Apr 11, 2007, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Both have their uses. AoF has been around for a while while FA was newer, and sadly breaks with what anet had said about not needing new chapters to be competitive. For the first one, you are garunteed 40 armor no matter what. The second one isn't the same.

However I have to agree with you that the latter is better and the first one could use a buff somehow. Especially since in the later chapters enchantment stripping has become a little more common. Of course if ANet sees this, they'll probably take the easy route and nerf FA.

I think the first thing that should be done is either extend the legnth that AoF stays on the caster or reduce it's recharge to 30 seconds. Since cold damage isn't that common, maybe give it +20AL vs cold as well. IMO giving up the ability to use the powerful line of fire spells and keep the enchantment up needs some good bonus.

But I think water magic is going to stay the neglected skill line at least until GW2 comes out.

yeah, I thought about a nerf for Frigid Armor, but I can't conjure that kind of stuff very well.
Also Water magic is a very useful support skill. Those hexes are the most annoying things ever and they can screw someone over. Currently I use Icy Shackles {elite} on my ranger, since it's not hard to meet the requirement of getting an enchanted target in PvP, the other person is pinned down for a long time leaving my team and I to spike him/her.

tenshi_strife · Apr 11, 2007, 04:58 PM // 16:58

yea water eles get boned in the ass.... really its the most useless attribute ever.... /signed

Winterclaw · Apr 11, 2007, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Also Water magic is a very useful support skill.

That's my problem with it, that's all it is to Anet. The best spike skill in that line is expensive to use and useless if the other guy is enchanted where every other class has at least one useful attack skill that works in most situations. The other ones usually cost 2x as much as icespear for only 50% more damage.

Don't misunderstand though, water magic has some pretty neat skills, it's just they don't have enough good attacks compared to the other lines. I PvE mostly so rooting a bunch of weak AI monsters isn't that important to me.

Thomas.knbk · Apr 11, 2007, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

yea water eles get boned in the ass.... really its the most useless attribute ever.... /signed

[skill]Water Trident[/skill]
[skill]Icy Shackles[/skill]
[skill]Frozen Burst[/skill]
[skill]Freezing Gust[/skill]
[skill]Blurred Vision[/skill]
[skill]Deep Freeze[/skill]
[skill]Shatterstone[/skill]

all exellent skills. you, sir, are wrong.

Sk8tborderx · Apr 11, 2007, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Why take either of those when you can just take armor of mist? Extra armor and speed buff is better than armor vs physical only.

Winterclaw · Apr 11, 2007, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Tom, half of the ones you suggested are elites. Deep freeze and freezing gust don't do that much damage either.

gameshoes3003 · Apr 11, 2007, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8tborderx

Why take either of those when you can just take armor of mist? Extra armor and speed buff is better than armor vs physical only.

You can't maintain Armor of mist as well as Frigid Armor. Also, as an elementalist, you can use anti-elemental armor and use frigid armor to cover up the physical damage. Also, if you use a ranger, this can definitely buff your armor.
But also, Frigid armor lets you immune to fire, isn't that a great thing? Who likes being on fire?
But anyway, you're kind of driving the thread away from it's topic, it's not a thread to find alternatives, it's a thread to buff a skill.

Also, Water Elementalists have powerful skills, but unfortunately, the powerful skills are elties whereas other attributes have very powerful skills that aren't elites. i.e. Rodgort's Invocation.

Winterclaw, you stated that freezing gust doesn't deal a lot of damage, lol it can deal 84 =D. Then deep freeze can hit for 90, and then agonizingly slow down your target, perfect opportunity for Water Trident.
But, that's a different thread topic lol.

tenshi_strife · Apr 11, 2007, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

[skill]Water Trident[/skill]
[skill]Icy Shackles[/skill]
[skill]Frozen Burst[/skill]
[skill]Freezing Gust[/skill]
[skill]Blurred Vision[/skill]
[skill]Deep Freeze[/skill]
[skill]Shatterstone[/skill]

all exellent skills. you, sir, are wrong.

hahahahah all i got to say is
[skill]meteor[/skill]
#2 is elite and on of the few good ones
[skill]grasping earth[/skill]
#4 is lame lol
[skill]blinding flash[/skill]
[skill]earthquake[/skill]
[skill]meteor shower[/skill]

and you only named off 7 skills in the many of the waters...... half of which are elite..... yea

Vermilion · Apr 11, 2007, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Tom, half of the ones you suggested are elites. Deep freeze and freezing gust don't do that much damage either.

If you have the energy to manage it, deep freeze is worth bringing at 0 spec. And honestly, when has water been great for just damage? In pve you really don't get to see the benefit of water magic I suppose.

In regards to the OP, I really just think armor of frost is one of the those skills that is subpar. Honestly you wouldn't want to bring it or any of its alternatives, would you? Highly situational at best.

Lydz · Apr 11, 2007, 10:38 PM // 22:38

I do think that Water magic has been rejected for far too long. It's the absolute last element I'd ever consider using, simply because almost all it's good for is slowing down people so that OTHER people can kill them. Elementalists are about massive damage, not mesmers in sexier clothing! (woman only ^^)

Kool Pajamas · Apr 12, 2007, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lydz

I do think that Water magic has been rejected for far too long. It's the absolute last element I'd ever consider using, simply because almost all it's good for is slowing down people so that OTHER people can kill them. Elementalists are about massive damage, not mesmers in sexier clothing! (woman only ^^)

Yes you slow them down so others can kill them, or prevent damage to your own team. This is a team game. Elementalists have a variety of uses. There is more than just fire.

gameshoes3003 · Apr 12, 2007, 12:44 AM // 00:44

You know you can easily get 2 elemental powers that can do very well with just minor runes... Anyway, can we get back to the topic please?

Made In Ascalon · Apr 12, 2007, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

hahahahah all i got to say is
[skill]meteor[/skill]
#2 is elite and on of the few good ones
[skill]grasping earth[/skill]
#4 is lame lol
[skill]blinding flash[/skill]
[skill]earthquake[/skill]
[skill]meteor shower[/skill]

and you only named off 7 skills in the many of the waters...... half of which are elite..... yea

If you want to use water magic for nuking, then you're doing it wrong. Water magic works great for slowing foes down and cover hexes. Not to mention, Shatterstone + Freezing gust = as good as any lightning pairs.

In regards to blinding flash; conditions are a LOT easier to remove than hexes, plus blurred vision is an AoE hex. In regards to grasping earth; the duration should be cut down so it's not so useful with zero point distribution, but other than that, it's as good as freezing burst.

gameshoes3003 · Apr 12, 2007, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Two elemental powers in your bar. It can work for you!
Anyway, I must agree on the grasping earth thing. Warriors can easily use it and it's just as good as cripple. Also since people bring more condition removers rather than hex removers, they're screwed!
then as I said before, can you please say yes to buffing Armor of Frost?