Curse

Numa Pompilius · Nov 28, 2005, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amn_En_Tarsath

All that was asked for was to even out the odds. Make the dropsystem a 1/8 chance (or 1/6 based upon your location) everytime a monster dies in your radar range.

So that you're penalized for taking out monsters with smaller groups?

Personally I feel that if you're able to take out the mob with 3-4 people you deserve more drops than if you need 8 people to do it.

I also don't see your point. You have a 1/8 chance TODAY of getting a drop if you go out with a full team. If you go out with less than full team, you have a higher chance but take more risk and take longer to kill mobs. Seems like a pretty balanced system to me.

Besides, I don't think your basic premise, that people don't group, holds. AFAI can see people group pretty much all the time, it's just a fairly small group of people who obsess with monk farming builds. And the botters, which btw would be completely unaffected by fixed drop rates.

The Acolyte · Nov 28, 2005, 05:48 PM // 17:48

/unsigned

Acolyte Devathi

darkdragon99 · Nov 28, 2005, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orbberius

Great, now you have a bus buddy to sit with on the special short bus while you both go to your special school where they try to teach both of you special kids how to read.

YOU'RE NOT UNDERSTANDING THE CONCEPT
REREAD THE POSTS
STOP MAKING UP THINGS THAT AREN'T IN THE POSTS
PLEASE

i understand pefectly you want to change it so every one in a group gets something every time a mob is killed and i already told you the problem with that. the only way to do that is to increace the drops and in turn the solo players get that much more maybe you should learn to read.

Pompeyfan · Nov 28, 2005, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkdragon99

i understand pefectly you want to change it so every one in a group gets something every time a mob is killed and i already told you the problem with that. the only way to do that is to increace the drops and in turn the solo players get that much more maybe you should learn to read.

No, you do not need to increase drop rates and solo players would not get more - do solo players get 8x quest items if they kill a quest monster solo? No the monster drops one for each party member - so a solo player gets 1 drop, team of 4 will see 4 dropped, team of 8 will see 8 dropped - regardless of how many or how few are in the party everyone will only get one quest item, so why not make rare drops the same? They'd still be rare, but if one did drop, everyone in the party would benefit rtegardless of whether solo, 56 man trapping, full party of 8.

Take Rago's Flamestaff as an example - I've been in parties that have killed Rago at least 15 times, but I've yet to see him drop the flamestaff even once, but if he had only one person from the party would have benefitted - so why not make it that if he does drop a flame staff all party members get one? It is still a rare drop afterall.

Oronar · Nov 28, 2005, 08:14 PM // 20:14

/sighs

This thread is equally frustrating and humorous to read.

Taken from Fansite Friday #61:

Quote:

We need to avoid situations where a small subset of players can earn orders of magnitude more gold than the average player, thus driving up prices of rare items to a level where normal players could never hope to afford them.

So ANet's problem is farmers being able to produce significant amounts of gold quicker than groups of normal, non-farming players. They just said so themselves. Why, exactly, is it that these farmers are able to produce so much more gold? The answer has been stated many times already but I will repeat it here again. THEY GET ALL THE DROPS. Not 1/8th of the drops, not 1/6th, but 100%. Like it or not, this is a team/group oriented game, and is promoted as such. Yet there is LESS incentive to play within a group for the aforementioned reason.

Solution? Change the loot system entirely. Add some sort of modifier that would change the amount of loot a monster drops that would be entirely dependent on party size. For instance, in a party of one, the total drops for a run would be x. In a party of two, it would be 2x. In a party of three, it would be 3x. You get the idea. This system rewards solo farmers and group players EQUALLY. It creates balance. This would also remove the need for the constant nerfing of the game. Solo farming would still be a viable option for people who enjoy playing alone or need some time away from PUGs, etc. Nobody suffers because of it, and the vast, vast majority of people will gain from it. Everyone should be relatively happy/not pissed off.

That is the best explanation I could come up with. I don't think I could explain it in simpler terms. If you do understand and disagree, please write an intelligible response and explain why you do.

/signed

darkdragon99 · Nov 28, 2005, 10:43 PM // 22:43

you make much more sense than the other two but i still don't understand how they will put such in you got to think of the dev team too. also you ppl should stop insulting peoples intelligence.

Oronar · Nov 28, 2005, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Sorry if it came across as though I was trying to be an ass. I was feeling frustrated that the others' continued efforts to explain it to you weren't working. As to the actual difficulty of programming something like this... well, I haven't the faintest idea. I assume that with their vaunted streaming update technology and the ease with which they changed things like the enemy reactions to AoE spells, it wouldn't be such a big deal. Of course, I could be way off.

MSecorsky · Nov 28, 2005, 11:15 PM // 23:15

No, totally not signed. What... is one monster going to start dropping multiple items? Ye gods, I can see people dropping out of missions to go sell to the merchant because they're full halfway through.

Nah, all told, not a good idea.

Numa Pompilius · Nov 28, 2005, 11:18 PM // 23:18

No, his idea isn't to increase drops in large groups, it is to decrease drops for small groups.

I.e., if you go soloing you get no more drops than if you have 7 other players with you.

This to encourage people to group instead of solo.

Personally I don't think it is necessary to encourage people to group, people group when they need to anyway.

MSecorsky · Nov 28, 2005, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

No, his idea isn't to increase drops in large groups, it is to decrease drops for small groups.

I.e., if you go soloing you get no more drops than if you have 7 other players with you.

This to encourage people to group instead of solo.

Personally I don't think it is necessary to encourage people to group, people group when they need to anyway.

Ah, so then I read it wrong? Still, it makes little sense... a creature's going to either drop or not regardless of party size... changing that based on party size seems to violate... reality, for what it's worth.

Besides, I don't think of it as being penalized for being in a large group, rather as a bonus for being in smaller groups.

But I'm not greedy for imaginary "items" that are nothing more than bits of data capable of being erased by unknown people at their whim.

Perspective, FTW.

Oronar · Nov 29, 2005, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Ye gods, I can see people dropping out of missions to go sell to the merchant because they're full halfway through.

Salvage ftw? They have those huge kits now, so put 'em to use. A lot of what drops can be sold for more as salvage components anyway, and a lot more is relatively worthless. Pick and choose what you want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

No, his idea isn't to increase drops in large groups, it is to decrease drops for small groups.

Nope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Still, it makes little sense... a creature's going to either drop or not regardless of party size... changing that based on party size seems to violate... reality, for what it's worth.

Realistically, why would these monsters have all that random loot in the first place? Is it realistic that I can only cast fire storm on a monster and not anywhere on the ground within my aggro circle? Or how about dying? Realistically, you wouldn't expect a party of adventurers to come back to life in the nearest town, yet they do. Realism in a fantasy game can only be justified to a certain reasonable extent before issues of balance and practicality come into play. I don't really see a downside to this proposed change to the loot system, but I also don't expect it to have a snowball's chance in hell of ever being implemented because it's too radical a departure from what we have now. Then again, I never in my wildest dreams would have expected them to nerf aoe like they did. Either way, I still believe this is a very viable alternative to the way the system currently works.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

But I'm not greedy for imaginary "items" that are nothing more than bits of data capable of being erased by unknown people at their whim.

Perspective, FTW.

You may call it greed, but really it's just a desire to develop a character that is perceived as more 'special' than the average; in other words, they want to differentiate themselves somewhat from the majority of people. Many people will be satisfied with drok's armor and collector's weapons. Some will not. For those who want more, they will have to work for it. The problem lies in the discrepancy between time and effort spent acquiring these items and the payoff in terms of satisfaction that one receives from obtaining them. Generally, any accomplishment of this nature will be very satisfying, but only for a relatively short period of time. Then you start to wonder if it was worth it. Don't interpret this as me trying to say that getting fissure armor or whatever should be easy. It just shouldn't be ridiculously hard. People will be more inclined to play the game if their next goal seems to actually be attainable rather than a pipe dream. And yes, keeping people playing is a good thing.

MSecorsky · Nov 29, 2005, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oronar

You may call it greed, but really it's just a desire to develop a character that is perceived as more 'special' than the average; in other words, they want to differentiate themselves somewhat from the majority of people. Many people will be satisfied with drok's armor and collector's weapons. Some will not. For those who want more, they will have to work for it. The problem lies in the discrepancy between time and effort spent acquiring these items and the payoff in terms of satisfaction that one receives from obtaining them. Generally, any accomplishment of this nature will be very satisfying, but only for a relatively short period of time. Then you start to wonder if it was worth it. Don't interpret this as me trying to say that getting fissure armor or whatever should be easy. It just shouldn't be ridiculously hard. People will be more inclined to play the game if their next goal seems to actually be attainable rather than a pipe dream. And yes, keeping people playing is a good thing.

Well, here's the rub... you tone down drops for solos and really you change nothing for your personal character development. You jack up drops for groups and you over flood the market so everyone has everything and there is no more 'special' anymore, not that special isn't a matter of a percent or two as it is.

Either way, you accomplish nothing other than annoying more people.

Bad idea stamp is a good idea here.

FFF_WarRaven · Nov 29, 2005, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

sigh

did it occure that for some people the last thing they want is the PVP experience? (actually maybe quite a few)

Amen, someone who understands!!!!!

I am so sick of hearing a few guildies say comon play pvp, use a spiker or use your iway, OMG !!!1111 you don't have an iway!!! or you don't have this or that build....tho at the same time i'll ask him why is it that you beaten the game how many times and didn't know about solo monking??!!! or that glowing hearts can salvo into charcoal...etc..etc..etc....sure i'll pvp ....sometime, but not untill i'm ready, i feel more accomplishment from pve than trying to show people how big my virtual groin is etc..etc..etc..

:::End Transmission:::

Megamanfan · Nov 29, 2005, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Well, here's the rub... you tone down drops for solos and really you change nothing for your personal character development. You jack up drops for groups and you over flood the market so everyone has everything and there is no more 'special' anymore, not that special isn't a matter of a percent or two as it is.

Either way, you accomplish nothing other than annoying more people.

Bad idea stamp is a good idea here.

Where are you guys getting this "tone down drops for solos" idea? Apparently out of thin air because all that's being proposed here is that whether you go out by yourself for farming, doing missions, quests or whatever or you decide to go out with a group of whatever size (from 2 to 8), you should be able to get pretty much the same amount of crap and gold in your inventory when all is said and done.

I don't much care for the "drop enough rare items for everyone in the party to have one" junk though. If that's the case, they better make rare items WAY more rare or that could have potentially bad repercussions for the market.

Right now there are solo builds for a reason; it's more profitable. It's a simple fact that you get more junk and gold farming an area for 30 minutes solo than you do within a group and for a game that prides itself on the "team" concept, the loot distribution system is as back asswards as it gets.

darkdragon99 · Nov 29, 2005, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megamanfan

Where are you guys getting this "tone down drops for solos" idea? Apparently out of thin air because all that's being proposed here is that whether you go out by yourself for farming, doing missions, quests or whatever or you decide to go out with a group of whatever size (from 2 to 8), you should be able to get pretty much the same amount of crap and gold in your inventory when all is said and done.

I don't much care for the "drop enough rare items for everyone in the party to have one" junk though. If that's the case, they better make rare items WAY more rare or that could have potentially bad repercussions for the market.

Right now there are solo builds for a reason; it's more profitable. It's a simple fact that you get more junk and gold farming an area for 30 minutes solo than you do within a group and for a game that prides itself on the "team" concept, the loot distribution system is as back asswards as it gets.

can you get anymore hatful