Curse

Tarzan Yamada · Apr 12, 2007, 04:07 AM // 04:07

/signed

it would be great to have some kind of "Elite Mission" in Pre searing. Maybe groups of 4 or so could get together and get some nice XP, and decent loot (expert salvage kits? Runes? better armor for casters?)

Not A Fifty Five · Apr 12, 2007, 04:27 AM // 04:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilanthe

If Anet ever add a lvl 16 charr boss (which I doubt very much, they'd add a lvl 14 charr boss instead, else it would be too much easier to achieve), just know (those who already tried/tries/did) how much time it takes to do lvl 14-16 just doing charr bosses runs and how tedious it is.

Now you'll have 4 levels to do this way(this is, if you did all the quests already, else it will be 3 1/4 levels), with 4 times less experience, have to get more xp to lvl up, and the boss will be located somewhere harder to reach (devs won't just put the big exp boss in the middle of nowhere, easy to reach), perhaps it will be behind he Charr Shrine, perhaps all the way back past the Charr Shrine to the last 2 charr groups up the hill).

You'll have to get there, which will be much longer than the regular charr boss hunt, and kill it (if he doesn't actually kill you first, he's lvl14 and you have paper armor). And you'll have to come back to town for another gate opener for 600+ times

In the end, it would take as much, if not more time than deleveling.

And Evilsod, fyi, the title is attainable below 800 hours.

erm.. so.. basically you're saying.. "I'm going to find the worst possible scenario anyone can think of to make this idea worthless so I can /unsign it"....

When anet could simply just up the level of the char.

Honestly this is like saying, if someone wanted to implement HA before it was made, "/unsign, no freaking way, to make this work they'd have to add 400 level 128 monsters randomly in the arena which is total nonsense."

Lilanthe · Apr 12, 2007, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not A Fifty Five

erm.. so.. basically you're saying.. "I'm going to find the worst possible scenario anyone can think of to make this idea worthless so I can /unsign it"....

This is the most realistic scenario. Have you only tried getting to lvl 16 in pre ? If yes, can you imagine yourself grinding 20 times harder to reach lvl 20 ? Do you imagine Anet putting a lvl 14-16 boss right within the reach of every jack easily ?

Quote:

When anet could simply just up the level of the char.

Right, I hope you realize that as a lvl 10 (max lvl possible in pre without killing charrs in the northlands), to just kill a patrol of 4 lvl8 charrs can be hard, you want them to face a group of 4 lvl 14 ?

Oh yeah ! Put all charrs in the Northlands between lvl 12 and 16, so everybody can achieve this title in less than 60 hours !

"I want this title, yet I can't achieve to get it ! Anet, I want a short-cut ! I Want iiiitt ! *cries*"

Quote:

Honestly this is like saying, if someone wanted to implement HA before it was made, "/unsign, no freaking way, to make this work they'd have to add 400 level 128 monsters randomly in the arena which is total nonsense."

Wow, awful comparison.

Not A Fifty Five · Apr 12, 2007, 04:39 AM // 04:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilanthe

Right, I hope you realize that as a lvl 10 (max lvl possible in pre without killing charrs in the northlands), to just kill a patrol of 4 lvl8 charrs can be hard, you want them to face a group of 4 lvl 14 ?

Er yeah. The point of this thread is to make an alternative that would take less time but be difficult.

mazey vorstagg · Apr 12, 2007, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Death leveling must be looked on as cheating. It is underhand, doesn't fit with the game mechanics and exploits what must be an ignored feature or bug in the enemy leveling system.

Therefore no title should use it. Legendary defender of Ascalon should be changed so it requires no death leveling. Even if that means reducing the level required to get it (what's the max you can get by char farming? lvl 12 I think)

FelixCarter · Apr 12, 2007, 05:57 AM // 05:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yunas Ele

Try to get yourself just to level 16 even, and then tell me if you want to do grind 1000x worse than that (which is what it would be if a level 14 or 16 boss was added). You wouldn't.

I would. And I did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilanthe

Have you only tried getting to lvl 16 in pre ? If yes, can you imagine yourself grinding 20 times harder to reach lvl 20 ? Do you imagine Anet putting a lvl 14-16 boss right within the reach of every jack easily ?

Yes. Yes. I only asked for one. I'm willing to grind for it. Not die for it.

I understand what point you guys are trying to make. It should be a difficult title. It doesn't have a function. In that sense, you're arguments are valid. I don't think adding one level 16 will make it any easier than death-leveling. If anything, I think it actually might make it harder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazey vorstagg

(what's the max you can get by char farming? lvl 12 I think)

Level 16, actually. Takes a while, but it's pretty chill if you stick with it.

Lilanthe · Apr 12, 2007, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazey vorstagg

Death leveling must be looked on as cheating. It is underhand, doesn't fit with the game mechanics and exploits what must be an ignored feature or bug in the enemy leveling system.

Therefore no title should use it. Legendary defender of Ascalon should be changed so it requires no death leveling. Even if that means reducing the level required to get it (what's the max you can get by char farming? lvl 12 I think)

FYI, Anet is aware of deleveling, death-leveling was removed once by Anet, and they put it back in for some reason afterwards (just before the addition of the LDoA title I think)

Anyway, I doubt any change will be made to presearing, Anet said times and again that they wouldn't add content to old chapters(although they added the 15k gladiator helm recently

). Well, perhaps it will happen one day, perhaps not, the future holds the answer.

Not A Fifty Five · Apr 12, 2007, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilanthe

FYI, Anet is aware of deleveling, death-leveling was removed once by Anet, and they put it back in for some reason afterwards (just before the addition of the LDoA title I think)

Anyway, I doubt any change will be made to presearing, Anet said times and again that they wouldn't add content to old chapters. Well, perhaps it will happen one day, perhaps not, the future holds the answer.

Heh, anet contradicts itself a lot ^^ I call hard mode one heluva added content to old chapters.

FelixCarter · Apr 12, 2007, 06:20 AM // 06:20

Charr Bags

I laughed when they added these little trinkets to Pre. ANet listens to it's fandom, even if they are people who like to hang out in the tutorial part of the game and use it as a chat-room. XD

But it's true. Only time will tell.

Sparks Dawnbringer · Apr 12, 2007, 06:53 AM // 06:53

/signed. and signed again

I have always felt this was a good idea. I have a level 15 and half monk death leveling right now. It's easier than fighting charr and more points, set it up an go to bed get up kill a level 20 spider, set it up again and go to work. When you get home Level 20 Strider. 184x2 points vs 128 soloing Charr. It feels like cheating. I'm not proud of it but what can you do.

I also think a small outpost you could only get to if you were level 12 out in the north would be nice. I'm tired of not being able to get into the north.

And I am sorry that you think this might take something away from those few who first thought of it. But here you are whoop de doo! You are the man my hat is off to you. I know they don't want to add a small section to pre, you know beyond that small outpost with some level 16 bosses. But please be real why should we have to cheat when we are willing to work for our title.

I think that section of Charr is one of the hardest in the game. It's not easy even at level 15. So if another small area was just as hard wouldn't you like to start a new character just to see if you could beat it and get a real title too. That maybe you could be proud of.

Vilaptca · Apr 12, 2007, 10:31 AM // 10:31

If they make this anything like what the community is asking for, then they better add a second tier to the title for the people who have actually put some effort into it.

I'm after this title myself, so I'm not saying any of this to protect my own self. Just trying to prevent the cheapening of the title.

DreamCatcher · Apr 12, 2007, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vilaptca

If they make this anything like what the community is asking for, then they better add a second tier to the title for the people who have actually put some effort into it.

I'm after this title myself, so I'm not saying any of this to protect my own self. Just trying to prevent the cheapening of the title.

Yes, rename the current LDoA title to ''Legendary Coffinfiller of Ascalon'', add hard mode to pre with groups of 4 lvl 14 charr and give the title ''Legendary Defender of Ascalon'' to anyone who's killed ten thousand of these lvl 14 charr (seems hard enough with the paper armor and pre skills/weapons we have)...now theres a -true- legendary defender of ascalon!
And it's a normal way to get LDoA without it being cheapened!

anyway..

/signed!

MithranArkanere · Apr 12, 2007, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vilaptca

If they make this anything like what the community is asking for, then they better add a second tier to the title for the people who have actually put some effort into it.

I'm after this title myself, so I'm not saying any of this to protect my own self. Just trying to prevent the cheapening of the title.

No. When Prophecies came out, the survidor was hard.
Now, just by making some Canthan quets your are done.

It's completely normal that things become less worthy over time.

Jongo River · Apr 12, 2007, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilanthe

death-leveling was removed once by Anet, and they put it back in for some reason afterwards (just before the addition of the LDoA title I think)

They should have stuck to their first decision and kicked anyone over a legitimate level out of pre for good measure. Instead, they honour them with a title - a most prestigious sounding title, too. At the very least, they could have called them "Legion of Dolts" or something.

AW Lore · Apr 12, 2007, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

No. When Prophecies came out, the survidor was hard.
Now, just by making some Canthan quets your are done.

It's completely normal that things become less worthy over time.

sepcially considering that when prophecies came out, there were no titles, those who reached lvl 20 and finished the game without dying did so as their own challenge, factions introduced the titles, like surivor.

before this titles were added, people were trying their best to reach lvl 20, as their own self imposed challenge to show that one could reach lvl 20 in pre, there were 2 or so that had reached lvl 20 before that title was implemented, and very few were trying to do that, now that there is a title to get by reaching lvl 20, everyone wants a second way to do so. dont mind the first fews that did it without help of anet.

Evilsod · Apr 12, 2007, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yunas Ele

Hes doing something wrong then. People have gotten it in ~600. Not to mention there are still A LOT of guild hall glitched triple xp scrolls floating around (I know someone who has more than 250 of them), so you can cut that time by 2/3 if you're willing to cash out some gold.

Oh, only around 600 hours? Well congrats to them. Thats about 6 weeks of solid 24/7 gaming. I'm assuming about 75% of which is spent afk. Why bring up triple xp scrolls? Who gives a toss about the people that still have items brought in through a glitch.
How can anyone using glitched items to gain this title then have any say in how its modified to make its requirements less stupid when they didn't even do it properly themselves?

How the hell can you be called on as a Defender of Ascalon when all you've proved is that you can die constantly? You might aswell call up a crew of emo's to defend the planet for all the good they'd do. As said already, this title has a more Legendary Coffin-filler of Ascalon feel to it than a Defender.

All titles have there worthless edge. Survivor, so what you went through the game surviving... or did you? How are we to know you didn't just complete every single exp quest you could get your hands on in Elona/Cantha, get a quick Ascension and 50k boost from Prophecies and do some exp farming for a while? LDoA is just a worthless block. If it does get changed those people can brag about how they got it when it was truly a 'hard' title, chances are it'll probably fall on deaf ears.

The definition of 'hard' with respect to titles is thrown around so vaguely. Attaining 'Incorrigible Ale-Hound' isn't hard. Attaining 'Conneiusser (sp?) of Confectionnaries' isn't hard. The only thing you might see as hard is acquiring the gold with which to buy them. But its still not actually hard to get the title. LDoA isn't hard. It just needs persistence, what effort is involved exactly in going afk and dieing alot? Changing this title so it could actually be attained without the 600hours of death leveling spoken of earlier wouldn't cheapen it. The title is as cheap as it could be already with the method needed to gain it.

FelixCarter · Apr 12, 2007, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by AW Lore

sepcially considering that when prophecies came out, there were no titles, those who reached lvl 20 and finished the game without dying did so as their own challenge, factions introduced the titles, like surivor.

before this titles were added, people were trying their best to reach lvl 20, as their own self imposed challenge to show that one could reach lvl 20 in pre, there were 2 or so that had reached lvl 20 before that title was implemented, and very few were trying to do that, now that there is a title to get by reaching lvl 20, everyone wants a second way to do so. dont mind the first fews that did it without help of anet.

What's wrong with going after the title? I have a level 16 in pre that I've leveled just from Charr Bosses. Granted, I have quite a few deaths, but that comes from just clowning around.

I think I should change my request however, from "give us one level 16 boss" to "give us one level 15 enemy". I actually forgot you do all the quests you didn't do at level 19.

Also, by making it an enemy, you don't gain double XP. It will still take a very long time to get up to level 19.

To all the people that disagree: I can see your point of view. It will depreciate the value of the title. I think it's awesome that people went for level 20 in Pre before a title was even added. But the point of the matter is, a title was added. It was expected that people would start asking if the means to get the title actually reflects the title itself.

Griff Mon · Apr 12, 2007, 05:11 PM // 17:11

I have char that is doing this that is currently lvl 16 and about halfway to lvl 17. There are lots of guides out there on how to do it. I don't consider it cheating, it simply is possible within the rules of the game. Monsters and Players level with experience. There is no DP in pre. You can lure monsters to rez shrines. It is tedious, a little silly, and only serves one purpose (to gain experience) but it is possible within the rules of the game.

I find that any little bit of new stuff in pre causes a lot of excitement among the pre community. Golden eggs resulted in several people farming like maniacs to get the Treasure Hunter title. The chocolate bunnies resulted in a few getting their Sweet Tooth title by buying them from other players. The Charr Bags caused a major stir. There are quite a few people sporting Drunkard Titles in pre that have farmed ales from the Bear Hunters and purchased ales from other people. I have yet to see an "Incorrigible Ale Hound" in pre, but I am sure there are those that are working on it. There are people with several mini-pets. Some of these people have no plans to leave pre-searing--ever.

I find that adding some higher level monsters to get experience through regular killing to be something I would like to see. It will surely anger some people, but a wandering band of level 15 Charr (or something similar) that spawn in different locations would add a bit to Pre-searing. A special weekend experience event would be nice too. Perhaps allowing creatures that are ten levels below you to give some experience during a special three-day period.

Keep in mind that killing the four char bosses at level 15 only resulted in 128XP per run and took people 15-30 minutes per run. It takes a lot of runs to progress this way, but it is active progress. Not just AFKing at the rez shrine while a moa bird slowly moves up in levels. The other (and faster) way is the rather complicated process of luring bands of charr to the rez shrine and stacking them so you can level them in larger groups.

As far as the LDOA title goes. I see it as an accomplishment. Getting to level 16 took time and effort, the rest of the way is an AFK grind, but if you get it, it is certainly a respectable title and if you are mocked for it, my guess is that the person making fun of it has issues of their own.

DreamCatcher · Apr 12, 2007, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jongo River

They should have stuck to their first decision and kicked anyone over a legitimate level out of pre for good measure. Instead, they honour them with a title - a most prestigious sounding title, too. At the very least, they could have called them "Legion of Dolts" or something.

Anet never made the decision to kick anyone at a certain level in pre to post but i assume you ment anets decision to disable deathlevelling for a few months prior to it being reinstated.

I think forced kicks are a very bad idea...what could possibly be the benefit of this except for cousing the total annihilation of a small (but very special) sub-community of this game?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Make this title actually attainable through killing enemies. Even if it means bringing a 'hard mode' to Pre-searing accessable only after level 10 (or higher). Such a thing would require thought so 'cookie cutter' builds didn't end up in pre where people with the wrong primary/secondary can't get into any groups.

The death-leveling of Charr or Pets as the title currently requires is just stupid.

I think the bold part of the OP's quote is what this thread is truely about and there are many people that agree to this.
I also agree that most likely part of these people are people that simply find it too hard to get and want to have this title obtainable in a much easier way... ''dummifying this title'' with which I do not agree.
I would also argue that amongst the poeple who don't want an alternative way to get this title are people that will go through the deathlevelling and will simply oppose any alternative way to obtain this title, no matter how reasonable, just for the sake of them having a title that very few other people have.
These people seem to think that anyone who requests an alternative way to obtain this title thinks like this:"I want this title, yet I can't achieve to get it ! Anet, I want a short-cut ! I Want iiiitt ! *cries*" which I think is a very negative approach towards these people and is just plain wrong.

This game should be about having fun and having a normal way to get this title will definately make this game a lot more fun then having to get it by the means that are here now.

remember that not everyone can leave their comps on overnight..not even if they'd want to!

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff Mon

I have yet to see an "Incorrigible Ale Hound" in pre, but I am sure there are those that are working on it.

There are a few of those around already

Evilsod · Apr 12, 2007, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff Mon

As far as the LDOA title goes. I see it as an accomplishment. Getting to level 16 took time and effort, the rest of the way is an AFK grind, but if you get it, it is certainly a respectable title and if you are mocked for it, my guess is that the person making fun of it has issues of their own.

The time and effort taken to reach level 16 *should* be the time and effort taken to reach level 20. You shouldn't have to afk your way throught 4 more levels. I have no problem with the effort put in to kill Charr bosses repeatadly to gain level 16. In my OP i said even if all they did was add a few Charr bosses at lvl14 (or is it 15) so you can gain small amounts of exp at level 19 and slowly creep your way to level 20 while actually doing something!

I also see no reason why people who currently have the title can complain. I'm sure many of the hardcore Pre-ers have titles that you can actually flash or use smuggled items so have no say anyway. The effort stops at level 16. The tedious afking that should not be part of this title is what should go.