Curse

spellsword · Apr 20, 2007, 11:22 AM // 11:22

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The way it is now, the drops scale DOWN, no matter what you only get 1/8 of the drops, that is what people are pissed about.

The best option would be to scale the drops UP, solo farmers would still get the same amount of drops, and if you were in a full party, the drop rate from monsters increases for every other person in the party, so you still get the same amount of drops.

Someone posted this in one of the rant topics, and I think it would be the perfect solution.

freekedoutfish · Apr 20, 2007, 11:56 AM // 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by spellsword

Someone posted this in one of the rant topics, and I think it would be the perfect solution.

I've never understood this idea which people have, where the amount of stuff which drops, magicaly increases if you have more people in your group.

The idea is that one creature carries a set amount of gold and items, which you share amoung your team or you take solo.

Are you suggesting that we should increase the amount that creature carries by 8 fold, if your in a 8 man team? That doesnt really make sense does it.

Its fine as it is. I've never understood why people think there has been a "farming nerf" because ive not seen a staggering change in drops.

Shaolin_Steve · Apr 20, 2007, 12:01 PM // 12:01

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Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Its fine as it is. I've never understood why people think there has been a "farming nerf" because ive not seen a staggering change in drops.

If you always run in 8 man PUGs, you won't notice any difference. This only impacts players who enter an area alone. I've tested this, the drop rate has changed dramatically.

There are many things to do in this game - so at this point I'm keeping an open mind. However I won't be spending money like a sailor on leave until I can guarantee I can replace it.

legion_rat · Apr 20, 2007, 12:02 PM // 12:02

I agree with fish. I understand that the so called "economy" might be in danger but I am not to worried. Anet is trying to kill farming mostly due to the bots and gold sellers out there. If they really wanted to kill it they would start selling gold on the GWstore. If the buyers could buy their 100k for cheaper prices from anet it would do to things. The people that suck or are to lazy to make the money on their own would have it. and it would stop the gold sellers as they would lose an enormous amount of profit.

~the rat~

Unkemptwolf · Apr 20, 2007, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

The idea is that one creature carries a set amount of gold and items, which you share among your team or you take solo.

But this rule has still been violated, because when someone goes into an area solo, they (the monsters) are only carrying 1/8th of what they were before. The loot is already scaling, the suggestion is simply that it be scaled so as to be a reward, rather than a punishment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Its fine as it is. I've never understood why people think there has been a "farming nerf" because I've not seen a staggering change in drops.

The farming nerf concern comes from this line in the last update:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Update

Loot now scales according to party size.

Wtf Its A Monk · Apr 20, 2007, 12:03 PM // 12:03

i dont think it should go up but i do think it should go back to normal....

Frazzy · Apr 20, 2007, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Or ANET could just nerf solo farming all together and the game would be 80% better.

Mr_Cynical · Apr 20, 2007, 02:01 PM // 14:01

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Originally Posted by Frazzy

Or ANET could just nerf solo farming all together and the game would be 80% better.

Er... they have nerfed solo farming altogether and the game isn't better. That's kinda the point of this thread.

Faer · Apr 20, 2007, 04:32 PM // 16:32

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Originally Posted by Mr_Cynical

Er... they have nerfed solo farming altogether

No, they haven't. To completely "nerf" it would to make it entirely impossible. There are still a handful of known viable ways to "solo farm", though a large portion of the community is probably too hung up on the drops being reduced to take them into account at the moment, and there will most likely be more methods coming in the near future. Solo farming is still alive. It just takes a little more thought and effort than before, that's all.

I find your username to be appropriate, taken in this context, by the way. Gave me a chuckle to brighten up this very hectic morning of mine.

willie nelson · Apr 20, 2007, 04:47 PM // 16:47

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Originally Posted by Faer

Solo farming is still alive. It just takes a little more thought and effort than before, that's all.

I don't think you understand the nature of the latest nerf. Basicaly, you get the same amount of drops if you go alone or with seven other people. You can still solo the underworld with an elementalist, for example, but you won't get any more drops than you would with a full 8-man team. Therefore solo farming *is* completely nerefed. There is no point to it. And the drop difference *is* significant. It's not a matter weather something *can* be done as much as what's the point of doing it, as there are no rewards.

Faer · Apr 20, 2007, 05:07 PM // 17:07

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Originally Posted by willie nelson

I don't think you understand the nature of the latest nerf.

I don't think you understand that there are more ways to farm than just killing a monster or three over and over again...

Twyrnea · Apr 20, 2007, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Drops haven't changed for a full party, so there's no 'punishment' involved for party farmers. It's purely solo-farmer based, as far as the 'nerf' goes.

And on that note...can't you just take heroes into an area with you and flag them far away while you do the killing?

And, on the more expensive side, buy 7 more accounts (yikes! But some people will do it, I bet) and figure out how to run them all at once, then flag them in the area. Full party with ALL the drops for you. So, it's not a complete nerf for solo farming, but it's a GOOD start. You have to put a good amount of effort into getting around this one.

I don't think that solo farming should be completely nerfed at all. There ARE people, believe it or not, who solo farm because they enjoy being able to clear an advanced area by themselves. And sometimes you just don't feel like getting a group. I am a frequent solo farmer myself, and I don't mind all THAT much that drop rates have been changed, but nerfing the ability to solo farm entirely? That would be a poor move, IMO.

Dusk_ · Apr 20, 2007, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

No, they haven't. To completely "nerf" it would to make it entirely impossible. There are still a handful of known viable ways to "solo farm", though a large portion of the community is probably too hung up on the drops being reduced to take them into account at the moment, and there will most likely be more methods coming in the near future. Solo farming is still alive. It just takes a little more thought and effort than before, that's all.

I find your username to be appropriate, taken in this context, by the way. Gave me a chuckle to brighten up this very hectic morning of mine.

This is what I seriously hate about these discussions, people saying "just put in a little more effort". No, effort has nothing do with it. Now we have to put in 8x the amount of time.

I'm not a hardcore player who wants to spend 5 hours a day doing nothing but grinding. That's why I loved Guild Wars, it let me play at my speed and still reap all the benefits of the game. If I wanted to afford some stuff like 15k Armor all I'd have to do was make a couple of runs in the UW each week, and in a couple weeks I'd have enough cash. Now, multiply that by 8, and the same results will take me several months, or I'll be grinding every day.

In other words, what used to be attainable for casual players is now delegated to the hardcore grinders or the already rich. There's a reason I enjoyed playing this game instead of things like Diablo 2, and now that reason's gone.

(For anyone who dares respond with "you don't NEED those items", guess what, I WANT them. I play this game for enjoyment, and I enjoy seeing my characters decked out in that nice looking gear. Tell me the benefit of removing that enjoyment to anyone who isn't a hardcore gamer)

Monk Gsb · Apr 20, 2007, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twyrnea

And, on the more expensive side, buy 7 more accounts (yikes! But some people will do it, I bet) and figure out how to run them all at once, then flag them in the area. Full party with ALL the drops for you. So, it's not a complete nerf for solo farming, but it's a GOOD start. You have to put a good amount of effort into getting around this one.

any one for bots ?

party of 8 bots clearing a area. 8x the speed it normaly took. but 8x less drops than solo. they still make the same ammount of money over the same time. so the people who have bots are unscratched, but the person who's farming for his/her obby armour gets 1/8 th of the drops.

baisicaly it means its gonna be; Guild Wars: Attack of the Bots. xD

Kuldebar Valiturus · Apr 20, 2007, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Opinion follows:

I think it's fair to say farming, solo farming in particular, has been "nerfed".

I don't think anyone can argue that it hasn't been reduced to some degree from its prior level of effect or efficiency.

If a player could solo-farm and get the drops from every mob killed without having to share it with 7 other players, the risk/reward scenario made perfect sense. You soloed what normally takes 8 party members and you get all the loot that would normally drop.

But, if I understand things correctly, you now get equal or higher risk while solo-farming but with far less reward. You effectively have seven "invisible, non participating party members" that are taking your loot before you ever see it essentially.

So, 1/8th the drops you used to have while solo-farming prior to the game update.

So, any way you cut it: that's a nerf.

I don't think we don't need to cloud the issue:

Calling this portion of the game update a "nerf" has nothing to do with whether farming is a valid player activity or whether there could be other methods developed to more productively solo-farm. I'm sure there will be if it's humanly possible.

ElinoraNeSangre · Apr 20, 2007, 05:43 PM // 17:43

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Originally Posted by Shaolin_Steve

If you always run in 8 man PUGs, you won't notice any difference. This only impacts players who enter an area alone. I've tested this, the drop rate has changed dramatically.

So here's a thought; has anyone tried to see what happens if you enter an area with a full team of hench, and flag them at the start (so they end up offscreen pretty quick and thus don't get drops), then go solo farm?

I don't solo farm (I guess I'm just not cool enough

), so it's not something I could probably test easily, but I'd be very inetrested to see the results.

spellsword · Apr 20, 2007, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Mind you, I didn't really like solo farming. The problem is that it was the only efficient way to farm that doesn't take several hours. When farming with a 8 man team, the drops are pitifully low, and the chances of getting a good drop are really bad. I just want to be able to get the same amount of loot as I used to. The proposed fix would allow that and it would still encourage grouping together.

For the people who suggest to take heroes and flag them away: from what I read on the forums, it doesn't work. And even if it did, I am sure Anet would fix it eventually, as it sounds rather exploity-ish anyways.

camael · Apr 20, 2007, 05:55 PM // 17:55

The thing is, this encouages botting! Don't call me crazy, it's true. The people who sell in game money don't care, they have computers running with botting programs and it doesn't matter to them how much lower the drop rate is. They'd go back into an area so many times that they make most of their money on about the same drop rates that we have now, only they have infinite time and energy to do so. That's because that is there job, and also because, like I said, they are running many computers with many accounts. Even if there accounts are banned, they will buy new ones, it factors right into their costs.

The people this hurts are the players, who now, may find it more difficult to gain money in game, are frustrated with it, can't find a group to get loot in HM, or just simply don't have the time-- might turn to buying gold. Like I said, the bots don't care about the drop rates, and even if they did, what would it do to them? Maybe they'd up their prices a little bit? No matter, that just means more profits for them, considering buisness is booming.

Faer · Apr 20, 2007, 06:04 PM // 18:04

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Originally Posted by Dusk_

I'm not a hardcore player who wants to spend 5 hours a day doing nothing but grinding.

You can make several hundred platinum spending only 10 minutes a day trying for it. I did, just the other day in fact, and so have quite a few other players so far. Best part is, the method is still viable (even more so now, after the "nerf"), can be done with almost any Primary Profession, and takes a few moments of sitting down, thinking, and maybe searching the Campfire to find.

Again, I will state, solo farming hasn't been completely nerfed. Don't try harder, think harder. Farming the same mobs endlessly to make money was a box the community closed itself into. Cut the tape and let loose. I don't like the fact that I can't SoJ Dragon Moss to death for "phat lewts" now any more than the next fellow, but I'm not going to sit with a thumb in my belt-loop waiting for somebody to fix what I can't adapt to. I'd rather spend a few minutes looking at the game and realizing I can still make money, and even better, I can do it in a way that the majority of the community is obviously blind to.

You can have the items you don't need, but want, and so much more, if you simply find the will to obtain them. You can grind mobs for 8x more time, or you can pop out of the box. It's up to you, and everyone else like you, to decide.

Kuldebar Valiturus · Apr 20, 2007, 06:06 PM // 18:06

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Originally Posted by camael

The thing is, this encourages botting!

I tend to agree with you. Botters overcome the obstacles that human players find far too time consuming. So, either A-Net will have to step up its Bot-sniffing methods or it may have to place the so-called "anti-farm" code back in the game.

My feeling is that there never should have been any "anti-farming" code at all in the game. However, there should have been:

-anti-bot code

-exploit detection

-online gold/item sales detection

Clearly, the path of least resistance was "anti-farming"...truly the equivalent of restricting the farming of cotton in order to eradicate boll weevils.