Curse

TwilightOblivion · Jun 04, 2006, 05:02 AM // 05:02

I think that the enemies shouldnt be diseased or anything, just that they are overzealous and see you as tresspassers that should be eliminated, the whole "wrath of heaven" thing.

Terra Xin · Jun 04, 2006, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Quote:

But we need to give some flexiblity to Arena Net in the form of plot construction, because certain God relashionships are not as clear as Dwayna and Grenth's good vs evil. Arena Net would need to systematically create their own version of Greek mythology, giving certain Gods beneficial and detrimental relashionships with one another. By giving Arena Net this leeway in plot, it becomes easier for them to create an in-depth plot that players could actively participate in.

I just want to add in that the relationship of Dwayna & Grenth being on the opposing sides of good and evil isn't necessarily true unless you are thinking in the most broad of concepts. The 'good' in Dwayna does not fight 'evil', and similarly, 'evil' in Grenth does not spread like a black plague, those two ideas are soley reliant on the character's perception. Note how the white mantle didn't worship the gods, but what they thought they were doing was right, was also seen as horrific in the eyes of the others. The good and evil in that situation was based on perception.

Quote:

I think that the enemies shouldnt be diseased or anything, just that they are overzealous and see you as tresspassers that should be eliminated, the whole "wrath of heaven" thing.

The reason I recommend the disassociation (is that a word?) between dwayna/good and grenth/evil, is that the teachings of dwayna can aspire to peace but then you have her aspect of air, to which the elementalists follow, and can therefore do harm. On the other hand, grenth can be seen as a vile dominating overlord over souls, but his teachings can also involve communicating with the dead.

And to the quote above, anything 'wrath of heaven' like is more associated with balthazar. That's why smiter monks follow balthazar.

I wouldn't mind if they decide to make it so that when you enter dwayna's realm, you can choose what you do in there, either help or invade... But then you would have to share that idea amongst all the realms.

prism2525 · Jun 04, 2006, 08:14 AM // 08:14

I'm think more of Grenth trying to take over Dwayna as leader of the gods. So there would be a whole undead army trying to take over (like the things from tombs). There would be another armor set AND a weapon crafter which would make truly godly monk weapons (like a 20/20 to all monk skills) which to be crafted would need 45k, 100 sapphires, 50 rubies, some steel and dust. (plus it would be customized). As a focus item there would be a +20 energy, and has: Monk spells cast/recharge instantly (10%). Price and materials should be proportionate. Instead of the avatar of Dwayna (which is busy taking care of the mortal realm) there would be an unknown mysterious character which after you complete 2 or 3 quests she gives you it would be revealed that she's no one other than Gwen who was saved by Dwayna's hand just before a crystal during the searing hit her (and finally we would get to know what became of her too). After the last quest she gives you an item to give her mother in the underworld. Just delivering this gives you 5k and 15000exp.

Scenario: Kind of pre-searing ascalon (no outposts of course) but much more beautiful and all buildings would be solid white marble.

Drops: Solid Diamond weapons (always rare)
Ruby/Sapphire weapons (rare but may be uncommon)
Enlighted weapons (common, uncommon or sometimes rare)
Dust...
Unearthly Keys (with chests around to match)
Candy cane

Pets: Faerie
Hawk
White Dragon Hatchling
Bird of Paradise

Morale boost +10%: Kick (kill) the Voice of Grenth.

pappayaponta · Jun 04, 2006, 08:45 AM // 08:45

Lordhelmos, that's fraking awesome!

Lordhelmos · Jun 04, 2006, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by pappayaponta

Lordhelmos, that's fraking awesome!

Ty, im still working hard... soon I'll have the whole thing pattented and finished up

Roupe · Jun 04, 2006, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Enemies
I like Undivine idea of "peacefull" invaders, tormeted souls. There are plenty of Dwayna worshipers that has in multitude died in the sacking of Ascalon, the freed sacrificed souls of the "choosen" from Door of Komalie & Shirows afflicted.

perhaps a simmilar afflicted condition disease (like in Zen Daijun )
quite alot of "peacefull" foes (as in pre-seering, and shig yea) but that are swapped for more vicious if struck by the "disease"

Doupleganger party (copies party ) that guard something desireble loot.

Not to mention foes slayin by the heroes &
some bosses that are/were allied with Dwayna, that can make reaperances as vengefull souls

for example :
Monk Ssuns- Blessed of Dwayna (-from archipilagos)=>Vengfull Ssuns

npcs reapering
Kilnn Testibrie (the ghost from defend the wall), since he promised to meet the heroes

Areas

Sun & Springtime-ish(remember the wintersday conflict) , perhaps night and snow in the "corrupt" areas.

IceFires city idea, I envision the city similar to Minas Tirith (Return of the King)

The area would have blocking gates (some hidden) that requires keys & or switches to be activated (think pre-seerings northland entrance system)or particular bosses to be killed -behind the gates would be something desireble (loot ^^). Gates could lead into certain "houses" or "rooms", and not just be area dividers

quests, nonliniar several scatted smaller quests, using it to tie ups some minor loose ends

draxynnic · Jun 04, 2006, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by prism2525

There would be another armor set AND a weapon crafter which would make truly godly monk weapons (like a 20/20 to all monk skills) which to be crafted would need 45k, 100 sapphires, 50 rubies, some steel and dust. (plus it would be customized). As a focus item there would be a +20 energy, and has: Monk spells cast/recharge instantly (10%). Price and materials should be proportionate.

No. Just no.

One of the important points of Guild Wars is that there aren't supposed to be any 'godly' items - skill over time played and so on. There are some items that are slightly better than the norm - some greens that can't be reproduced with collector items with upgrades, and things like the difference between the Amulet of the Mists greens to regular collectors, but on the whole, these differences are fairly subtle.

The +20 energy focus item DEFINITELY has to go. Even as a staff, that's high. As a focus... could you imagine combining it with one of the Amulet of the Mists wands to get a total of 25 extra energy where most people would only have around 12. That's a big advantage.

The idea for a 20/20 for all monk skills wand - also not good. All skills for a given profession isn't much different in many builds to all spells period, and that's capped at a 10% chance. Furthermore, I don't think I've ever seen a wand that has both fast casting and fast recharge - it's usually one or the other (although that could be just that I haven't been lucky enough to find one - but while I haven't entered the UW or the FOW, I have been playing for close to a year). Having both is restricted to staves and focii.

Anyway, enough ranting. Just remember that Guild Wars is not about looking for the ultimate weapon that will give you the advantage, but that higher level PvE play is more for looks than to actually increase your character's power.

The truth itself · Jun 04, 2006, 03:20 PM // 15:20

I imagine an area where healing and damage is inverted, so for every damage taken, you actually heal and every heal taken, you take damage ect.

There obviusly needs to be some wierd enviromental effects for this to be viable.

nimloth32 · Jun 04, 2006, 04:24 PM // 16:24

i think the main point of the area is to protect it from the invasion of grenth and balthazar(well, dwayna try to heal and preserve the land while balthazar bring destructions and death) and the traitors within..and there will be 'restore the land', 'unseal the guardian' kinda quests that need to be done within a time limit perhaps..

it will be kinda cool with the existence of artifacts like 'tears of dwayna' and there will be things like eternal sun in the realm

moreover, well, anet can add one uber unique boss in the realm that need one or two 8 persons party to kill

XaiXo · Jun 04, 2006, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Right, Ill post up my full idea of what it could be later...But for now, the special thing about this place could be:

Weapon Crafter: Not "godly" weapons, but rare, perfect weapons for all proffesions, with no mods bar damage/spellcast mods (15^50, 20/20 etc), that would require a sizeable amount of money, and a certain amount of Rubies/Sapphires/New rare crafting material.

Unique title: After you say, clear the area, you get a title like "Guardian of the Holy realm", or "Keeper of Peace".

Something like this would kinda balance this area, as in FoW you have unique armours, and in UW you have the Spider, each realm should have something unique, and somewhat challenging to get.

Anyway, as I said before, more to come from me.

Ietwat · Jun 04, 2006, 08:12 PM // 20:12

This all is a great idea, and dont forget to solve the mystery from Gwen

.

And yes, the general theme from this piece of world should be light, white and like a heaven. And make a quest with were u can cap a white pigeon just like a spider in UW

.

I really hope aNet makes this, im all trough UW and FoW, so it would be a new challenge like the Elite Missions in Cantha.

Bring up the ideas!!!

Goonter · Jun 04, 2006, 10:26 PM // 22:26

I like Thom and TopGuns approach.
-A relationship between the different gods.
-You pick a side.

UW and FoW exist for fow armor alone now. Thats a little chessy. Nothing wrong with special armor, but there was a day when highly rewarding quest was the reason to take a trip too.
I wouldnt mind in the slightest if UW and FoW was altered altogether for a broader relationship between the other gods dungeons.

Including crafting drops to get various types of special armor, quest with high exp rewards - I could see an item, just like the Amulet of Mist, given at the completion of the final quest.
It will get you a cool green weapon and this item is given as many times as you beat the final quest.
Perhaps because of this, the quest are all together lengthy and hard, or you may need more than one "amulet" (like a collectors item) to get the weapon. ...or a combonation of both.

Aside from rewards, I dont think every character needs to be on the same page when addressing these gods. Some will admire one, others will blame another. I could see robbing dwayna blind as proper motivation, especally someone alligned with Lyssa.

TwilightOblivion · Jun 05, 2006, 02:05 AM // 02:05

i really like what lorhelmos has to say, however "obelisk" is just another name for a pillar, so i think the name is a bit redundant. Ivory tower, crystal spire, etc something like that i think would be more appropriate.

Niscimble · Jun 05, 2006, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbnatr

Landscapes: Cloudy floors(walking on clouds) dark blue sky with bright stars big floating temple of dwayna in the middle

Enemies: banished angels(banish mesmers/monk/warriors ect..)

Allies/NPCs:callers of dwayna

Quests: Race to the temple!. timed quest were you have to get to dwayna's temple before something happens

Tamable creatures:buffalo with wings(to make buffalo wings yum=])

Drops: weapons made of clouds

Special Armourers/Weaponsmiths: something that will let you add stuff like rubys and sapphires on your weapons/armor

Name: something like idk "apostles rejuvenation"

I just had a vision of Mario 64...

Niscimble · Jun 05, 2006, 04:03 AM // 04:03

I think it would be cool to have to "activate" certain seals to protect the realm. Also, you could have the cliche "invading army," but also make it so there are good ghosts coming in as well, and you have to distinguish between the two.

You could have four different seals placed on four elemental planes: Air, Water, Fire, and Earth. Once inside the realm, have a staging area with portals between the realms, and of course have a boss between you and the seal, and ultimately, the exit.

When all seals are activated, you allowed entry into a "treasury" of sorts. You are then ambushed by Grenth himself, or some other badass monster, and you have to make it out alive.

ALSO:

I think the staging area should take place in a Mausoleum sort of thing, with branches off into the realms, that change slightly to show which realm you are entering. For example, having the fire realm have a red hue, and alot of torches, while the water realm would have a faint blue color, with fountains etc.

mushi · Jun 05, 2006, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Just an idea, but perhaps there should be a way to travel through each relm one after the other. Example, say you and your group went to fow. After going to Fow and completing most of the quests (and for some weird reason feel inclined to play some more) maybe there should be a quest that would link to UW. After completing that particular quest (you only have an on the spot option) you can travel to UW. Etc etc

Thom · Jun 05, 2006, 10:23 AM // 10:23

While I really don't want to add a whole bunch of moral philosophy to this discussion, Dwayna is the God of life and air. People in most culture tend to see life as generally a moral good. If you read the initial lore, it sounds pretty much like one of your major religions. "Lay down thy weapons, and as I have done unto ye, so ye must do for your brethren. Offer protection to the weak. Give solace and shelter to those who need it. Be ye a salve to the wounded. For I am your goddess, and I will give blessings to all those who follow these teachings." Sounds a lot like the Beatitudes among other things. I really don't know any better way to define "good" beyond the golden rule and this is basically what Dwayna is saying. Grenth seems to be the god supporting an exploitation of the dead (necromancy). Most cultures tend to revere the dead and wish them to rest in peace undisturbed. While Grenth may or may not be evil, he doesn't stand within what most cultures would consider good.

The idea of warring Gods seems a bit silly to me. I feel that the gods seem to be quietly indifferent to one another. Each has a plane of awareness which are largely non-overlapping. What would concern Melandru would for the most part just concern Melandru. What they would share is an interest in human events and in that sense their interests would overlap. The fact that some monks serve both Balth and Dwayna would seem a bit conflicting from a purist point of view, but from the human perspective they share the desire for order.

I do see it as interesting to have 2 types of objectives in Dwayna's realm.
1) The ability to loot and fight against the spirits guarding the realm.
2) The ability to do quests which involve providing healing and protection which unnecessary blood shed.

Perhaps for 2, Dwayna would teleport you into the middle of some sort of brutality and your quest would be to cure the injustice. One quest could transport you into the middle of Tyria to save some tengu who are being brutalized by bandits. Another may be running to various luxon bands and cure them of disease. This would reuse existing maps making them a bit more interesting and when the quest is finished Dwayna would appear and reward you.

Summary: You enter Dwayna's realm to get transported to another instance where you would do some kind act, which could be fairly rigorous. While in the realm you could move freely without attack except for certain protected treasure rooms. Within the deepest vaults one would find green artifacts of various degrees of usefulness.

Roupe · Jun 05, 2006, 11:00 AM // 11:00

Yes quests that are kinda like the pre-seering monk quests and the Bloodstone Fens bonus, such quests would fit nicely in dwaynas realm.

gabrial heart · Jun 05, 2006, 04:48 PM // 16:48

I would love to see more mystery/puzzle solving quests and perhaps this would be a good place to start. Lever manipulation, certain spell portals (activated by a certain spell type), enchantment type trigers (certain ench's cause things to happen), special hard-to-get skills training, larger bosses (suggested earlier of a holy djin perhaps or glint type monsters), god collaboration bonuses (grenth, melandrus, dwayna, balthazars quests oriented bonuses that are musts to defeat a final boss?).

I think bringing a puzzle dynamic to elite levels like fow,uw and this new proposed area would draw in more players other then the typical hack and slashing stuff that continues to be the main focus of quests now. Although creating a dynamic area would be tough from a design/programming aspect, it would be awesome to see something like that to keep down on the guides that solve such areas (by posting builds and solutions) and keep it interesting for those that like to contribute to the forums but dont always want to have complete solutions to some of the dilemas. Perhaps if i have time I'll post some concept art soon.

Viruzzz · Jun 05, 2006, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopGun

In the end, you'd end up with a very dynamic "War of the Gods." While this kind of thing is cool, it's not necessarily plausible to the immense amount of work involved. It would be possible to slowly incorporate each God's dungeon with certain expansion packs, perhaps creating a new dungeon every year. But we need to give some flexiblity to Arena Net in the form of plot construction, because certain God relashionships are not as clear as Dwayna and Grenth's good vs evil. Arena Net would need to systematically create their own version of Greek mythology, giving certain Gods beneficial and detrimental relashionships with one another. By giving Arena Net this leeway in plot, it becomes easier for them to create an in-depth plot that players could actively participate in.

just thought I'd comment on that. The way i see it. the gods are eachothers opposites. and in a way they are not.
Grenth vs. Balthazar - twisted evilish Vs. honorable knightly god (also ice vs fire)
Melandru vs. Lyssa - Nature vs. Chaos
Dwyanna vs Balthazar - Damage vs. healing

My point is that at any conbination of the two you can find something one one of them that is opposite form the other one.
and in any combination you will be able to find similarities.
even between dwyanna and grenth.