Curse

tommarrow · Apr 26, 2007, 04:45 PM // 16:45

What about the fact that in normal mode you get a 30% boost. At the highest level you have 71% chance of the pick not breaking. You could open several chests before it breaks. This will also include the elite areas where the keys already cost 1.5k. With a normal key you get one shot. With a lock pick you have a good chance of using it again. I agree about hard mode % being too low. At the highest it should at least be over 50%.

lioka pelenoria · Apr 26, 2007, 04:46 PM // 16:46

The only thing im not happy with is the purples comming out of hardmode chests. WTB hardmode chests that are actually worth opening with lockpicks, else lockpicks have a drastically reduced value than that 1700 someone mentioned, more like 200

Dougal Kronik · Apr 26, 2007, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Fully support the professions getting bonuses as long as it's only for side quests and noon relevant events/areas. Anything for the storyline should disable the profession bonuses.

Give's each profession some importance depending on what the party wants to do at that time.

I really like clawofcrimson's ideas.

=HT=E5Destroyer · Apr 26, 2007, 05:01 PM // 17:01

well as of this comming weekend anyone who has a lucky or unlucky title to me will be worthless. this title has gone to the crapper because people will be going afk all weekend for it so they can lock pick.. so dont come monday showing your lvl 5 or 2 or we lucky and think your cool. cause you are not just a sad player who wasted money. do like these guys say and go puy the picks it is alot cheaper.lol

Fender · Apr 26, 2007, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommarrow

What about the fact that in normal mode you get a 30% boost. At the highest level you have 71% chance of the pick not breaking. You could open several chests before it breaks. This will also include the elite areas where the keys already cost 1.5k. With a normal key you get one shot. With a lock pick you have a good chance of using it again. I agree about hard mode % being too low. At the highest it should at least be over 50%.

1.5k keys were dropped to 1.25k. It is always a good idea to use a lockpick on a 1250g key chest in normal mode.
For a 750g key chest, you need lucky 5 + treasure hunter 2 for it to be a good idea. Or lucky 3 + treasure hunter 3. Or lucky 2 + treasure hunter 4. Lucky 1 doesn't help w/ 750g keys.
For a 600g chest, you need lucky 4 + treasure hunter 4 for it to be a good idea. Or lucky 3 + treasure hunter 5. Or lucky 1 + treasure hunter 6.

I'm sure nobody bothers with the sub-600g chests anymore.
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Lockpick

Div · Apr 26, 2007, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prowlinger

I think lockpicks at the moment are not worth the $ to buy or use.

Being early into the NF campaign... they are not worth buying at all... keys are much cheaper and guaranteed.

If I find a lockpick I would sell it... having it break on the first try is a waste... you could see it and buy alot more keys in its place... so whats the point there?

Now if lockpicks had a guaranteed 1-3 uses before breaking then it would be a gamble but not be useless... Some of us noob toons don't have high lucky titles or wisdom but even that appears to not be helping many of you uber lucky chest runners...

Actually buddy, it's just that your treasure hunter/lucky titles suck. For me, lockpicks are worth buying for any key that's generally more than 450g at the merchant. Also, lockpicks provide the convenience of not having to constantly go into storage and switching keys, so it should be a little more pricey if your character isn't developed (think about expert vs superior salvage kits). Early in the NF campaign? Who actually buys those 50g or whatever Istan keys? Seriously. What are you thinking? Also, wisdom has nothing to do with it. Shows how much you know about lockpicks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prowlinger

Do we need a key ring? Yes. That could be added to the storage options right up there with the belt pouch and 2 bags...

Do the lockpicks need to be revamped? Yes. The functional feature is alittle off.

Should the Assassin class get a sole BONUS to using lockpicks? Yes. They are the craftiest (is that a word?) class ... they should get a nice +25% against breakage on using them. Why? Assassins still need some love... and they are the closest to Rogues that we have at the moment. Makes common sense.

Why should the Asssassin class get a bonus for lockpicks? I could envision that each class gets a special bonus to something... it would really enhance the diversity of the game alittle more and add reasoning to function for each class. All of these should involve trade skills and not combat.

Unfortunately, the answer is no to all your questions. We already got more storage, and no matter how much storage/key rings/crafting storage Anet gives, people are going to be ungrateful and ask for more. Why bother? Functional feature being off? It works to save money on good characters, and for other characters you pay a little extra for convenience. Perfect. Assassins getting bonus on lockpicking has nothing to do with the fact that everyone thinks they suck in PvE. Makes common sense? All that change'll do is make sins teh-uber-chest-running class. People will still hate them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prowlinger

Examples of class diversity and ideas:

Warrior - Bonus to holiday use items (+25% longer life of holiday item)
Monk - Bonus to Shrine skill usages (+15% longer shrine buffs)
Elementalist - Bonus to getting rare salvage items on salvage (+15% chance)
Ranger - Bonus to salvaging items (+25% additional salvage)
Mesmer - Bonus to merchant costs (+15% bonus to sells / -15% to buys)
Necromancer - Bonus to removing runes from items (-25% vs breaking item)
Assassin - Bonus to using lockpicks (-25% vs breakage)
Ritualist - Bonus to dye mixing (25% chance one dye will not be used up)
Paragon - Bonus to weapon customizations (+5% Damage on all weapons)
Dervish - Bonus to removing insignias from items (-25% vs breaking item)

These apply to only the character involved and do not grant bonuses across the party while in a group.

Simple class skill diversity

WTF Epic fail list. So basically people are going to make a level 2 mesmer to buy/sell stuff to merchants, eles/rangers/necros/derv to salvage, rits to mix dyes, sins to run chests. That proposal makes absolutely no sense, and is completely lame >.>

No, just no. Your ideas suck. End of story.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommarrow

What about the fact that in normal mode you get a 30% boost. At the highest level you have 71% chance of the pick not breaking. You could open several chests before it breaks. This will also include the elite areas where the keys already cost 1.5k. With a normal key you get one shot. With a lock pick you have a good chance of using it again. I agree about hard mode % being too low. At the highest it should at least be over 50%.

Actually if you open canthan chests, you get a 35% boost (since the keys are 450g each), which makes you retain it over 3/4 of the time. The boost can be up to 55% (for ascalon keys), meaning you have up to a 96% chance of retaining the lockpick in normal mode.

And yes, hard mode items need to be better (or have much higher gold %) or else it's totally not worth it. For a typical level 20, they probably have about ~15% of retaining the key, and even for the more advanced chest runners, they only have ~30% of keeping it. Those are really low percentages for how many purples come out of those chests :P

VinnyRidira · Apr 26, 2007, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Why don't we each just have the same profession with the same skills and then we can have total balance. /sarcasm

A suggestion if implemented would have to be play tested to work out the balances. Most role playing games give different professions different elements besides their primary attribute.

I agree that lockpicks at the current break rate versus cost are too expensive, considering the Thomas Crapper stuff that you get.

Antheus · Apr 26, 2007, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by VinnyRidira

Why don't we each just have the same profession with the same skills and then we can have total balance. /sarcasm

Yes, why not?

Why should the letter 'A' in front of my name say I'm playing an assassin. Why not let my build determine what I'm playing, rather than some pre-set name.

This aproach solves so many balance, advancement and character development problems that level/class based games look like stone age.

The reason it's not used is because majority of players are physically incapable of understanding how a game without levels works. This was proven by every RPG that tried it.

Average player wants to be a number and a letter. E20. A14. M9.

Those that claim they want better character development actually want longer grind, so that they can outgrind others and win. And levels give a nice way to determine that. E20 is more powerful than E19. And E19 pwns E18 noobs.

ShadowsRequiem · Apr 26, 2007, 05:56 PM // 17:56

I'm sorry but giving diff characters a bonus is the stupidest idea i've ever heard of

Why would they go give the assassins a 25% base???!? thats nuts why even bother with my treasure hunter on anyother char.....

Besides what part of assassins should give them this lock picking base. I mean assassins are killers not theives.

HEY I know LETS Give Sins the Power to Shadow step inside of a chest and then POP right back out like FREAKIN David Copperfield!!!!!!!!!

clawofcrimson · Apr 26, 2007, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Great. So now a group will need to bring a completely useless class into some high end area just so that at the end they'll get a chest?

This is guaranteed way for leechers to come along, just because they are necessary. "STFU or I quit and you don't get chest."

read the bottom of my post... you could either..

~take a henchi

~use secondary (although it would really defeat the purpose)

And no class is utterly useless... It would truly stimulate more interesting pve groups.

I agree this would make trouble for missions... but side quests and exploring?? those areas are void of immersive gameplay as it is...

tenshi_strife · Apr 26, 2007, 06:52 PM // 18:52

ok lockpicks are not a problem i think this was said earlier but in normal mode you have a 40% chance base to kkep pick..... i have to say tahts pretty good, only in HM so you get a 10% chance....

oh and about you class thing i gotta say HELL NO yes my 2 cents

Tazaki · Apr 26, 2007, 06:55 PM // 18:55

OP: While the lockpicks are a bit off the whole bonuses per class that you perposed were unbalanced and horrible. As a monk I think that the whole bonus of shrine use is slightly asinine. While I do use the shrines as I'm sure many do I could care less that the bonuses last just a little longer. On top of balancing issues all the unique bonuses would cause, youd also have many people upset that one class get X bonus while another got Y bonus. Best bet would be to just not have them at all and tinker with picks some till they work better.

D E C E P T I V E · Apr 26, 2007, 07:26 PM // 19:26

/not signed

there are problems with the current system that could be tweaked but none of the ways you suggested make any sense, are all extremely unbalanced and seem to be aimed at favoring a certain profession more than others, mainly the assassin. None of the suggested buffs for the other classes even comes close to the buff that the assassin gets, and the mesmer buff gets completely cancelled out all together with the +15 here and -15 there. Also assassins are not the most clever class, they are the cheapest class, most overpowered class next to rits, and they keep getting buffed for reason I will never understand. All the while mesmers keep having their skills nerfed. Mesmers are powerful and can be extremely powerful in the perfect situation, underpowed in others and that is the way they were intended to be and why they take some intelligence to play. They feed off of the imbalances of the other team in a way, unless you just want to play constant e denial because that is what they are being limited too by the people that keep nerfing them.

Anyway back to the post. There is no problem with the lock pick system. The only thing that I see as a problem is the randomization of the drops. It would be nice if the rare drops could be traded for something at a trader in order to be useful, sort of like the gemstone system of NF, where you could accumulate so many of them and trade them for what you want. Maybe instead of a gold weapon you could get a gold nugget and so many nuggets could be traded for the weapons, mods, or tomes that you want at a trader, or sold as a rare crafting material for a fair amount of plat, arould 3-5plat seems reasonable to me, or be traded or sold among players.

Winterclaw · Apr 26, 2007, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Here's an idea, add a generic skill line that all pve characters have access to, it could be for lockpicks, weekend events, whatever. In it there could be a skill that ups your chance of keeping your lock pick or not breaking a key by about 3-5% per level.

So if you are willing to put 12 levels into it and waste a slot on your skill bar, you'll be able to keep your keys/lockpicks 36%-60% of the time with the skill alone.

MithranArkanere · Apr 26, 2007, 09:22 PM // 21:22

This is not D&D and assassins are not thieves, they are Assassins, they do not stealth, they slip.
Their primary skill is not 'dexterity' is 'criticals'.
You can't open a chest mashing it with a dagger until you have a critical that brakes the lock.

Classes have two differences. And only two:
- Primary attribute.
- Armor (base, insignia and runes).
No more. And I don't think they are having more anytime soon.

I only would go for the account keyring. Something like this:
- A 'keyring' menu item is added to the menu, grayed.
- Pay a Xulai representative for it, and the keyring becomes usable.
- To have it on screen, drag and drop the meny icon.
- To put or take key from it, click the icon, a panel like the materials storage panel would appear, but with ky icons instead of materials.
- There would be a limit of 250 keys of each type and lockpicks.
- The keys would be shared for the account, and the chests would check that panel and you inventory to see if you have keys.

Hm... yup, that would be a nice keyring for me.