Curse

J.Kougar · Apr 27, 2007, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Traps, with them and the skill Trapper's Speed, a person can drop multiple copies of a trap on the same location and in effect cause an instant death 'bomb' to go off. It's more complicated than a one hit kill, but that's basically what it equates to.
One trapper can stack five or more of each Spiked Traps, Barbed Traps, Flame Traps, and Dust Trap in a location, and if you walk onto that location, shadow step to that location, or are teleported to that location, you stand a very good chance of being instantly killed by the combined damage of all the traps, as well as being knocked down and set on fire, crippled, and caused to bleed all at once. So a -10 Health Degeneration as well as often 500 or more damage, with no quick way to get out of the numerous and continuous repeated hits from each of the Dust and Flame traps (and the knock downs and crippled effect of the Spiked and Barbed traps keep you from getting away from the remaining damage that is going off in that area).

Given these traps can be set on a location like the landing pad for Teleporters in places like Alliance Battles where you are very unlikely to be able to know the trapper was there due to the massive size of the exploreable map, the fact that you might have been on the opposite side of the map when you died, and are then resurrected in your base next to the Teleporter with no knowledge and usually no line of sight to the other side of the Teleporter pad where you will land, do you think that the traps are over powered given they can instantly kill one or more people (especially casters) if they unknowingly step into a Teleporter that has been trapped on the other side (since in AB they can trap and leave before you ever resurrect and have any idea they were down there, or you cannot tell due to all the other players and NPCs fighting near that area at the time)?

Traps can also be used to Solo Farm places in PvE, as well as giving a single Ranger the power to wipe out people in one shot in cooperative PvP areas like Alliance Battles. Given this, especially when used on teleporters like mentioned above, are Traps not a little over powered?

Please do keep in mind that I do play a trapper on a simi frequent basis in places like Alliance Battles and Fort Aspenwood, and it's not simply me having accidentally stepped into a trap pile once and being annoyed about it. Far from it. I do use Traps to annihilate people, but even so... and being on both the dealing and receiving end of a trap pile, I still tend to feel that it's a little over powered in many instances.
What do you think?
Personally, I'd like to see an increased recharge time on the Trap skills... and maybe reduce the knock down time from Spike Trap?

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Added by Moderator: References to past moderation removed. I feel that it is best that the issues with the prior thread not end up carried over here, and reason for moderation stated is not entirely accurate. In the end, it should always be evident that the rules apply to every thread.

Arkantos · Apr 27, 2007, 06:43 AM // 06:43

First of all, AB is hardly cooperative PvP. Probably 75% of the players have no clue what to do and run around attacking stuff.

The reason you think traps are overpowered is because you play scrub PvP where heals aren't as common. If you had a monk on you, you'd notice they aren't good. One RC will remove all conditions and heal you a lot.

Traps are immobile, take 2 seconds to use, take alot of energy, and are easily interuptable. If someone is wanding a trapper, it's pretty much gg for him.

Increasing the recharge time (which is already quite high) will kill trappers. Why kill a build because it does alot of damage against people without heals? If anything, I'd be much more worried to fight an assassin then a trapper in AB.

In conclusion, if they're such a hassle for you, avoid using portals in AB, let your team know there is a trapper, and avoid it. Bring a monk. If anything, traps are underpowered and do not need to be touched.

arcanemacabre · Apr 27, 2007, 07:13 AM // 07:13

I'm just gonna repeat what I said in that other thread (since it was neither a troll nor off-topic post):

I AB a lot, and for one, I rarely use the teleporters, save for the start. Secondly, that ranger is going to spend a lot of time laying that many traps, Trapper's Speed or not. Probably more time than it takes for you to res. Either way, that means one man down from both sides for a period of time, making it equal as far as capping goes - the most important thing in AB - not kills. I'd just laugh at that strategy because it leaves them down one man probably longer that your side would be down you.

The only thing chalked up to luck here would be if more than one of you get hit by all the traps. In that case, a pat on their back for a decent strategy, but no more effective than one good player taking out 2-3 others at a time, as I have before. It's just a heck of a lot less dependable, and likewise a waste of time.

I do have a trapper that I have used to farm UW and Stygian, and I think they are overpowered in PvE, but only because of the AI. Sure, AB is the closest thing to PvE that PvP ever gets, it still involves real players who can think for themselves. Traps by themselves are doing exactly what they're supposed to do. They're hard to use effectively, at all, but when you can use them, yes they will be like a bomb going off. That's how they're designed.

savage vapor 33 · Apr 27, 2007, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Traps are also an essential part to farming. Stygian veil, UW, and other places use traps for great advantage. It's pretty easy to avoid a, "death trap," don't walk through it. If you didn't see it get layed down, stand still, and wait for it go off. LoL, there are many ways to countering a trapper, wand him for god sakes.

zwei2stein · Apr 27, 2007, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Exacltly ... al it takes is one person WANDING trapper to shut him down. If he uses trappers focus, normal interupt works.

Then, all it takes is to nulify his damage is to not to move to traps.

Also, Trapper proplably spend minute of two laying traps down to achieve enough spike damage ... that makes pitifull damage over time, that even doent not have to happen. I mean, even life transfer necro propably does more dps and is more reliable (sigh)

I you do know there si trapper and you let him trap without harassment, your fault

And, if you have to trigger traps, there are ton of defensive skills that just ... own traps. Shield of Absobrtion for example being common on competent monk bars.

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This is just like RA related nerf requests...

If something kills clueless people does not mean it is overpowered.

J.Kougar · Apr 27, 2007, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Traps are immobile, take 2 seconds to use, take alot of energy, and are easily interuptable. If someone is wanding a trapper, it's pretty much gg for him.

Traps... Expensive? How? Sure, Dust Trap is 25 but only like 12 Energy after Expertise, and Spike and Flame trap are only each 10, which is like 5 after Expertise, and Barbed Trap is only 15, and like 7 after Expertise... so with the four traps, costing 11, 5, 5, and 7 energy... and Trapper's Speed up (which is only 5 Energy before Expertise) I can drop trap after trap after trap with ease and not much of Energy issues. Sure, I usually only run a 13 in Expertise, and I could just use another Superior to make it a 15 instead if I wanted, but I don't play Trapper enough to bother with another piece of armor and having to switch it out all the time depending on the build (what can I say, I have a soft spot for interrupts and causing dazed o casters, lol) I'm using at the time, as I have enough of that to do as is already.

Sure, Traps are immobile, but that's half the fun of setting them... knowing where you put them when no one was around, and watching the carnage when they find them. If you're a good trapper, the immobile issue isn't an issue at all.

I also don't do much normal PvP, as you mentioned, but that's mostly because I can't tolerate the other players there. Yea, I have to put up with the majority of the other players being less than half my age in Alliance Battles too... but it's a little better there, and I still do leave when it gets to be too frustrating. I mostly PvE because I can play solo with Henchmen and Heroes easily and peacefully, or when my Fiance isn't working and is home with me, he and I play together all the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Increasing the recharge time (which is already quite high) will kill trappers. Why kill a build because it does alot of damage against people without heals? If anything, I'd be much more worried to fight an assassin then a trapper in AB.

In conclusion, if they're such a hassle for you, avoid using portals in AB, let your team know there is a trapper, and avoid it. Bring a monk. If anything, traps are underpowered and do not need to be touched.

Communication with PUGs in Alliance Battle is less than ideal, and you never know if there will be a trapper on the opposing side until you fall into his traps. Still, I think the traps would be just as fine if they all had at least 30 second recharge times... as you could still easily drop several of each with Trapper's Speed, and it would not really affect PvE or PvP (except for not being able to pile them quite so high) and well... it's just my opinion, but I think that would still make Trapping fun and effective, just not overly so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

that means one man down from both sides for a period of time, making it equal as far as capping goes - the most important thing in AB - not kills.

I very seldom ever see an Alliance Battle won because of capping... yea, it's happened, and it's ended sooner because one side capped all the points, but that's so rare a thing to happen... and it's almost always one team reaching the 500 kill count before the other, that it seems a little ridiculous when people will cap a shrine just to run from another group that is right behind them to take it back, when they could take that group out and keep the shrine at the same time. That's just been my observations of it since Factions came out though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

I do have a trapper that I have used to farm UW and Stygian, and I think they are overpowered in PvE, but only because of the AI. Sure, AB is the closest thing to PvE that PvP ever gets, it still involves real players who can think for themselves. Traps by themselves are doing exactly what they're supposed to do. They're hard to use effectively, at all, but when you can use them, yes they will be like a bomb going off. That's how they're designed.

I've never used them to Farm, I don't really go for farming or gimmick builds really... just seems... unsportsman like... or something... either way I don't enjoy it... but I do agree that traps are over powered in PvE ...but still think they are in PvP as well. Just my two cents though.

I've never really had a lot of trouble using Traps effectively though, maybe it's just my luck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by savage vapor 33

Traps are also an essential part to farming. Stygian veil, UW, and other places use traps for great advantage. It's pretty easy to avoid a, "death trap," don't walk through it. If you didn't see it get layed down, stand still, and wait for it go off. LoL, there are many ways to countering a trapper, wand him for god sakes.

I don't get interrupted much when I trap, even when they attempt to wand... but then again I bring along a stance or two that give me a 75% chance to block.

As far as them being essential for Farming... I didn't think that was a good thing, with as much as ArenaNet works to try to limit and disrupt Farming, you'd think they'd be happy to add onto the recharge time if it meant hindering the Farmers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Exacltly ... al it takes is one person WANDING trapper to shut him down. If he uses trappers focus, normal interupt works.

Then, all it takes is to nulify his damage is to not to move to traps.

Yes, but smart trappers don't leave home without a defensive skill or two, as I mentioned above.

As for not getting into the traps, well, easier said that done at times... for reasons mentioned in my original post.

Sorry for the huge post, but didn't want to leave anyone out when responding.

MithranArkanere · Apr 27, 2007, 09:55 AM // 09:55

A way to detect traps, given to assassins(shadow arts) and rangers(wilderness survival) as skills would be more than enough.

Something like... you bring the skill, you use it in front of the portal, and the more points in the attribute of the skill you have and the less the trap

The skills would:
- Detect the trap, but won't deactivate it, so you'll have to warn your allies about it.
- Have huge recharge times, like 60 seconds or more, so you use them only in places where passing through is a must, or otherwise you'll advance too much slowly, and trappers would have to be more 'imaginative' putting traps, having to put them where enemies don't expect them.

PvE monsters won't use wisely detect trap skill, so such a skill would be only really useful for PvP.

Not A Fifty Five · Apr 27, 2007, 10:32 AM // 10:32

traps just suck, honestly. No need to touch 'em. And I'm surprised that, having ABed a lot, you think that capping is not how to win AB. Thing is, every X seconds a shrine counts for score, and its very quick. The "500 kill count" you refer to is usually almost entirely from shrine points, not kills. That thing where you win if you hold the all shrines for a minute... pointless, it was made only to speed up one sides' inevitable win. People would still focus on capping entirely just for the cap points.

outside of AB in pvp traps blow chunks.

In pve.. Yeah its pretty imbalanced for farming. However, other methods usually are better. Only a few areas were designed such that trapping is the ideal farming method.. and..then what? Nerf all the other farming methods? I dislike farming but nerfing this because its slightly usable in farming is.. meh. You'd have to nerf 55s AGAIN as well, E/A sliver farmers, etc. Too much work for too little gain. And some people just like farming. So there you go.

Lastly.. given that it is only imbalanced in pve farming.. since when has anet nerfed a skill for pve farming? So far, the only major pve nerfs have really been because either pvp caused it or through AI/monster additions like dying nightmares.

Glider of chaos · Apr 27, 2007, 10:59 AM // 10:59

OK, lets do some math.

It takes about a minute to lay a set of traps enough to deal significant damage. Usually only 1 man steps into a trap, sometimes 2 of them get there at once, and what about 3? Almost never. And it takes only 20 seconds for them to respawn. BTW, there's no DP in AB, so there's no reason to get frustrated upon such death.

Bottom line: trapper's team is looses like 60 seconds and enemey looses like 20 or 40 seconds... So, trapping portals is not the brightest idea

PS You are wrong to think that capping points doesn't matter. Score in AB is not only a killcount. Control points produce significant score as well.

legion_rat · Apr 27, 2007, 12:33 PM // 12:33

/usigned

One if they change traps PvP it will kill them in PvE. You very seldom see traps anymore in PvP because unless its a player not paying attention, or a very bad group, you most likely wont fall for the same trick twice. If you got the massive trap bomb, all you do is this

~team chat~ "Theres a trapper on the other side, watch the teleporters"

and its done. They already killed soul reaping (not harmed killed, dont try and get one of the more powerful ranger systems nerfed too. Trapping in PvE is fun and maybe a little over powered if you know what your doing, but over all it works well for most areas. Increasing the trap time would kill the trapping system.

~the rat~

OhCrapLions · Apr 27, 2007, 02:11 PM // 14:11

/notsigend

no, it takes too long to set enough traps to do reasonable damage. For a ranger, the best thing to do in a real situation would be to use a guard for interrupts and ans set, at the most, two traps and start arrowing (?) away waiting for an unsuspecting player to fall in. Kite, wash, rinse, repeat.

Bringing THAT many traps is just stupid, what about attack or survival skills? What will you do if Lyssa attacks you?

Patrick Smit · Apr 27, 2007, 02:19 PM // 14:19

I love traps, especially when people rush in da bomb, thinking it wont harm them that much. Also after being in the heat of the batlle people tend to forget where all th etraps are, and will always set a couple off.

Trapping is annoying, and with focus, its rather fun to play for once in a while.