Curse

Juk3n · Apr 25, 2007, 06:19 PM // 18:19

This is going to sound nuts..but i really need to know.

First let me start of by saying i am neither here nor there about the topic in question, i'm so awsomely fantastic with my GW mission tactics, i'll take henches/Heros mix over pug's in most circumstances, (except on missions that` require a team to split).

But i do need to ask the /Notsigned folks somthing..

How will the ability to use 7 heros make HARD MODE EASIER? i don't get it i mean, i know heros have an extra 50 al each..no wait, they don't...hmm, must be the fact that hero skills recharge 80% faster tha..no wait they don't do that either..hmm

i got it, it's because they use hidden (Hero skills) kinda like Monster skills but just for heroes....no wait, silly me they don't have those either..gosh dang it what could it be?

i play W/R ..ALWAYS, i refuse to compromise i luv my classes and i love my build. Im also a damn good warrior, i'll take a pepsi challenge any old day of the flucking week with some of the elitist nubs i see in some towns.

No one wants to do DoA with me because im not a W/E..okaaay, but im good i swear, "sory , wiki says w/e or no go"..what to do??

ahh haaa, i can just use my non elitist scum Heroes , i mean, they're not asa good as a full human party , but they could be quite usefull...no wait...using 7 heros lowers the games difficulty...no wait..does it..ohh im so confused.

/singed for the OP (just because there are NO valid reasons for not signing).

bhavv · Apr 25, 2007, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Made In Ascalon

If you've been doing 3 heroes + 4 henchmen since heroes came out, then will making the max 7 heroes really change your gaming experience at all? Honestly.

Yes it will because then I can use my own builds.

Will allowing 7 heroes change your gaming experience if you choose to pug? No it wont.

Unless you actually use heroes + hench, you have no idea.

Allowing 7 heroes will make PVE in GW the best thing ever since sliced bread and microwaves for me.

Darko_UK · Apr 25, 2007, 07:43 PM // 19:43

I S I G N T H I S B E C A U S E I T Y P E I N C A P S

Age · Apr 25, 2007, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by legion_rat

This would be great if real people didnt rage quit, mass aggro, go afk and everything else. As it stand now I have been running with one to two guildies but what about the people who are not in a guild or are more casual players? If they are not going to buff henches to be useful in hard mode then they should let us take all heros.

~the rat~

edit was because i forget this

/signed

That is because most ppl don't have confidence in each other which is rather sad in today world or most look at it from a grim outcome that the mission will fail if one leaves or goes afk.There is a simple solution and that is to /resign and restart .It is a good thing to ask questions to like do you have enough time to help out and will you not go afk if they do report them.You will never get this as Anet won't give it to you as it completely unbalances it out.

Deleet · Apr 25, 2007, 09:42 PM // 21:42

/signed for reasons already stated, especially too many idiots and too few good people.

Gaia_Hunter · Apr 26, 2007, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Puging vs Heroing/Henchie.

Is really the world of GW inhabited by a such horrendus amount of noobs?
No.

So why people consider, in most situations, using AI controlled party members, even if half of those only have a profession, and sub-par skill bars better?

Coordination.

If a player stops to scratvh is head or IDing an items, every single hero/henchie will stop. They focus fire by nature. They dont get distracted or tired and stop using their skills or making mistakes. A player can refine its tactics using heroes/henchies for a certain area, but people come and go.

There are groups of people that spent their time practicing and improving their coordination. They are called Army, Sport Team, GvG guild team, etc.

A pug didnt spend any time doing that, so their are uncoordinated.

Places were only certain teams are accepted, like tombs, people will actually learn to fill their role, and even then a less experienced member can ruin it.

Thats why an henchie/hero party is superior to the large majority of pugs. They have a leader and follow its instructions, bad or good, but only one head planing and executing the strategic (as in global plan) aspects.

A trained and coordinated human team is superior to hero/henchies party, because they had the human capacity of discerning and choosing the best tactical (as in "its better to remove the blind from that warrior, than the daze from the other warrior", or "its better to spend my rez sig on the guy that has an hard rez, than on the other that has a spen rez sig") answer for the problems. But these team also have a single voice of command and have resources like TS, than most pugs wont have.

Thats why Pug<Henchie/hero<guild group.

Zinger314 · Apr 26, 2007, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Allowing 7 Heroes wouldn't make much of a difference in Hard Mode, at the least. You'll still be owned by the proper groups even with the equivalent of Henchmen as Heroes, no matter what you do.

Plus, I doubt ArenaNet will implement it anyways. How exactly would the UI handle that?

Porkchop Sandwhiches · Apr 26, 2007, 03:55 AM // 03:55

/signed

Personally.. I will refuse to group with people as long as I can in hardmode. I enjoy the challenge of clearing all by myself... but I've learned very much recently just how much henchmen DO suck. I'm almost halfway through one title for vanquisher with all hero and henchies... needless to say having 7 heros would be so much less of a headache!

Perfected Shadow · Apr 26, 2007, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Confidence in PUGs, hmmm imo for HM it's not about PUG skill level, etc. it's about trying to FIND A PUG in the first place. Maybe it's just my timezone but I believe many are affected to a large extent. Thus the solution is to use heroes/henchmen. But of course most henchmen skillbars suck.

/signed

MithranArkanere · Apr 26, 2007, 09:34 AM // 09:34

I join parties for elite missions, hard quests, green hunts, and helping others.

Henchmen would still be useful for those who has not Nightfall or not many skills unlocked for a certain profession.

And remember that hecnmen are fully equiped, while you have to equip your heroes.

bhavv · Apr 26, 2007, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

How exactly would the UI handle that?

Maybe by adding 7 flag buttons around the mini map, and only allowing a maximum of four hero windows to be open at a time?

You dont need to have all the skill windows open for your heroes, as long as they have skills that work, thats all that counts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Allowing 7 Heroes wouldn't make much of a difference in Hard Mode

Yes it would if you know how to actually use the skills in the game. Adding a simple channeling on the hench monk bars would allow a party to be sustained for significantly longer, which can make a lot of difference. Taking obi flame on herta instead of aura of res will mean enemies die a lot faster if I cast it manually allong side my SF.

Single skill changes can make huge differences, which you would know if you PVP'ed.

If anyone thinks that henchmen skill bars cant be improved, they're a noob.

Also, heroes have runes, henchmen dont. +4 to the primary attribute on 4 party members makes a huge difference.

You dont go into GVG or HA with a stone daggers spike at 12 earth magic, or take a woh monk with 12 healing and healing breeze. The same applies to PVE, especially in hard mode.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

And remember that hecnmen are fully equiped, while you have to equip your heroes.

All my heroes are much better eqquiped then the henchmen, runes, max green weapons, e.g, both my monks have a totem axe and Byzzr's benediction, and I have a full set of monk runes that I swap around as required.

So why cant I use my better equiped heroes instead of hench?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

That is because most ppl don't have confidence in each other

I dont have confidence with anyone anymore in this game unless they're in my guild, or if they are at least Rank 6 HA *AND* Koabd.

I have had too many bad experiences with pugs, which is why I will never use them again. Remove Henchmen and heroes from the game and I quit GW.

nugzta · Apr 26, 2007, 11:24 AM // 11:24

/signed

I want my team to synergize with each other, not some random elements blend in together. GW is a team game, random never works in this game. Regardless if your team is compromised by human or AI, what matters is each build in your team working together.

Vel · Apr 26, 2007, 11:33 AM // 11:33

/signed

I think they should allow you to take whatever you want. I would like to see UI letting you control upto 3 to 5 heroes at any time on the radar. At a very minimum I would like to see 5 heroes.

In PvE the standard set of heroes are 1 Healer, 1 Nuker/SS and 1 MM. This sorta limits the possibilities considering you have many heros and many will be added soon. Also, in PvE there are very standard common templates are being used in multiple areas. So, improving AI on those templates will help tremendously.

SotiCoto · Apr 26, 2007, 11:48 AM // 11:48

/Signedificated .... if I didn't already.

Yeah... I spent quite a bit of time and money levelling all my heroes up to 20 and kitting them ALL out with runes, inscriptions and fully souped out collector weapons. Only on my Assassin as it happens, but I've nearly got all my Necro's heroes souped up (and they're all level 20 too).
For that reason if nothing else it would be nice to make use of more of them. As it stands Olias, Sousuke and Zhed are permanent fixtures on my party bar and most of the rest of them never get any air-time...

bhavv · Apr 27, 2007, 05:02 PM // 17:02

How possible would it be for me to make this build everytime I wanted to pug? Its pretty much why I want 7 heroes.

[skill]gift of health[/skill][skill]Searing Flames[/skill][skill]glowing gaze[/skill][skill]liquid flame[/skill][skill]mark of rodgort[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]fire attunement[/skill][skill]resurrection chant[/skill]

[skill]barrage[/skill][skill]keen arrow[/skill][skill]crossfire[/skill][skill]savage shot[/skill][skill]distracting shot[/skill][skill]"watch yourself!"[/skill][skill]"shields up!"[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

[skill]barrage[/skill][skill]keen arrow[/skill][skill]crossfire[/skill][skill]savage shot[/skill][skill]distracting shot[/skill][skill]sharpen daggers[/skill][skill]critical eye[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

[skill]anthem of envy[/skill][skill]cautery signet[/skill][skill]"They're on fire!"[/skill][skill]"stand your ground!"[/skill][skill]"Fall Back!"[/skill][skill]"go for the eyes!"[/skill][skill]"find their weakness!"[/skill][skill]signet of return[/skill]

[skill]obsidian flame[/skill][skill]churning earth[/skill][skill]sandstorm[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]ward against melee[/skill][skill]ward against elements[/skill][skill]earth attunement[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

[skill]preservation[/skill][skill]life[/skill][skill]soothing memories[/skill][skill]spirit light[/skill][skill]splinter weapon[/skill][skill]protective was kaolai[/skill][skill]holy veil[/skill][skill]flesh of my flesh[/skill]

[skill]orison of healing[/skill][skill]words of comfort[/skill][skill]dwayna's kiss[/skill][skill]light of deliverance[/skill][skill]mend condition[/skill][skill]holy veil[/skill][skill]channeling[/skill][skill]renew life[/skill]

[skill]reversal of fortune[/skill][skill]gift of health[/skill][skill]shielding hands[/skill][skill]shield of regeneration[/skill][skill]mend condition[/skill][skill]holy veil[/skill][skill]channeling[/skill][skill]renew life[/skill]

Jetdoc · Apr 27, 2007, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

How possible would it be for me to make this build everytime I wanted to pug? Its pretty much why I want 7 heroes.

Find one other person to party up with, then get them to bring 3 heroes?

:dunno:

If this gets implemented, can we please retitle Hard Mode to "Slightly More Difficult Mode"?

bhavv · Apr 27, 2007, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

If this gets implemented, can we please retitle Hard Mode to "Slightly More Difficult Mode"?

I really dont understand this reasoning at all. In hard mode enemies still attack, cast spells and move 50% farster, as well as being really high levels.

How does using any combination of Anet's oh-so cleverly designed skills make it any easier?

As someone mentioned before, heroes have no benefits over a human player, the only benefit is being able to use whatever skills you like. If there are any seriously imbalanced skills that make HM too easy when used then nerf them. Its what they do to HA.

VinnyRidira · Apr 27, 2007, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Allowing 7 Heroes wouldn't make much of a difference in Hard Mode, at the least. You'll still be owned by the proper groups even with the equivalent of Henchmen as Heroes, no matter what you do.

Plus, I doubt ArenaNet will implement it anyways. How exactly would the UI handle that?

7 Heroes versus 3 Heroes + 4 Henchmen would make a huge difference. The synergies between the Hero builds are amazing. 2 People plus 6 heroes work enormously well when the hero builds compliment. Even with the current AI heroes are very good, I think the current AI is very good anyway.