Curse

Matrix · May 04, 2007, 11:22 PM // 23:22

VERY Impressive.
Signed>>>>

bilateralrope · May 05, 2007, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prowlinger

Everyone wants an online Guildwars auction house, but this
late into the games' history, it would not be feasible to add
in such a demanding addition.

And who are you to be able to say that ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

And since ArenaNet said they weren't adding an AH...there's no hope.

People keep saying this, but they never seem to be able to show where ANET said that. So provide a link or I won't believe you. The closest to ANET saying anything about an auction house is this post Billiard made after visiting ANET's offices, where he claims one of the ANET staff members told him they were working on an auction house.

As for the OP's idea, it seems to be just another variant on the AFK stall idea. So I'll reproduce my rant against stalls:

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

I saw AFK stalls in Maple Story, and even if you ignore the bugs present and the quirks that would be unique to Maple Story (Maple Story is a 2d side scrolling MMO, and its business model is free to play, but paying cash for optional extras, including the ability to setup a stall) its a very horrible trading system.

- By requiring you to be AFK to trade, it means that you either can't play when most people are online, or you can't use the stall to trade with them. Well Maple Story does let you have an NPC run your stall, if you pay more cash, but I don't see that being an option for Guild Wars.

- When you go to place an item for sale, you have no feedback about what price to set. Set it too low and someone snatches it up to resell at a higher price. Set it too high and it won't sell. Oh and all you know is if the item sold or not.

- If you are looking for an item it takes ages of wandering between the stalls. And you have to check most of them because they are mainly with names like "asdf", "low prices", "stuff!!". Yes you could introduce a method to search the stalls, but if your doing that whats the point of having separate stalls instead of one NPC who runs a single trade stall for everyone to place items for sale at ?

- When you finally track down the item you want to buy, you have no idea if its a good price or far too high* because there is no easy way to compare it to the prices at other stalls. But if you decide to go searching more, you run the risk of someone else snapping up it if its a good deal.

- By forcing people to AFK you require them to keep their computer on and using their bandwidth. Now while most of you probably on flat rate connections, I'm living in New Zealand and our options for broadband plans simply suck. I don't think there are currently any plans with a monthly transfer limit of above 20gb, even on the >2mbit connections. Once we go over out limit we either pay per mb, or more commonly we have our speed cut to 64k for the rest of the month. Besides even if you don't have bandwidth limits to worry about the computer would be using more power if left on unless you have some other reason to leave it on.

- Sure people could only run the stall when they are otherwise on the computer, and lets assume that there isn't any hassle to setup. While running Guild Wars will use system resources, meaning that if they have a less powerful computer or want to run more resource intensive programs (usually games) then the resources used by Guild Wars can make the difference between being able to run both and not being able to.

- Because of the bandwidth needs of an MMO, the only option for its connection is one where they pay per amount of data transfered. People AFKing not only use up the limited server processing ability, but they also cost more due to the extra bandwidth they are using.

*Here is a screen shot that shows that a Pet command guide sold for 100k, despite it being able to be bought from an easily accessible NPC in unlimited amounts for only 1k. If there was feedback then you would get sellers undercutting each other here bringing the price down to below the NPCs price for when people decide they don't need it and want to sell it.

bilateralrope · May 05, 2007, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by JumpingBean

I like the idea of forcing the user to be in the cart and not out adventuring and such b/c as a buyer I'd become frustrated with trying to negotiate a trade and the seller is too busy doing other things to pay attention.

No instead you have to deal with a stall runner who is AFK overnight and therefore won't respond to you at all for a few hours, if they ever do.

Quote:

And having carts and easier ways for people to buy and sell items would create a more realistic economy in the game, adding to the depth and realism of the online world.

Since when is realism a good thing for Guild Wars ?

Exterminate all · May 05, 2007, 01:43 AM // 01:43

/Signed

Yes I am all for this man, this would be a great idea. Kinda of like a mini-store people could have, other people have came up with this idea, but not as detailed as this. People would love this and use this all the time.

Hazard the Horrible · May 05, 2007, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

People keep saying this, but they never seem to be able to show where ANET said that. So provide a link or I won't believe you.

Here's your link. A closer look reveals this:

Quote:

Auction House and Marriage will not be implemented for Guild Wars, but are possible for Guild Wars 2

I like this idea a lot, it would make trade much easier. Oh, yeah, and props on the Photoshop artwork.
/signed

funnyman100 · May 05, 2007, 02:02 AM // 02:02

sounds cool! I'd love for this, I hate having to tell that I'm selling something and no one it buying it

bilateralrope · May 05, 2007, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazard the Horrible

Here's your link. A closer look reveals this:

The problem with wiki's is that anyone can edit them, so its best to check out the source of the information, not the summary a wiki provided. So to quote the lines where Gaile actually mentioned the auction house:

link to chat segment

Quote:

Gaile Gray: We have no plans to add an auction house to Guild Wars. Perhaps it will be something for GW2, I don't know.
<snip HA line>
Yes, players may want an easy way to sell and they may have that in Guild Wars 2 But from what I understand...
we won't be adding an auction house to Guild Wars.

"We have no plans to do x" does not equal "We will not do x". Gaile is limited by what ANET tells her. I can understand her being cautious and saying that she doesn't think something will happen if ANET hasn't told her otherwise. So all we can take from that is that Gaile doesn't know anything about the auction house.

Still even if ANET is against an auction house, that doesn't change the fact that as a trading system, individual stalls are a horrible idea.

savage vapor 33 · May 05, 2007, 08:17 AM // 08:17

The photoshop stuff still amazes me, that just looks really nice. I'll switch my vote to
/signed

This could be a great concept to the ball rolling for Anet. Something along the lines of a shopping cart, and stuff like that.

klrk · May 06, 2007, 02:58 AM // 02:58

this look like the vendor system used mostly by korean mmo
to tell the truth , i hate this system , it will totally make outpost heavily crowd and lag and i bet game server will be severely strained
instead , i like the auction house system better

OhCrapLions · May 06, 2007, 03:08 AM // 03:08

I like the vendor idea SO MUCH more than the Auction House idea.

/signed

Prowlinger · May 07, 2007, 01:42 PM // 13:42

The system was designed to currently work with the engine as is and not require mass changes to the core for the simple fact that ANet said no auction houses. This is just a simple version that could be achieved without considering it a real auction house.

Sure there are pros and cons of it all... And it shouldn't create any more lag than we already have now...

Shadow Kurd · May 07, 2007, 01:57 PM // 13:57

/signed

Master Ketsu · May 07, 2007, 03:17 PM // 15:17

/signed and /signed to all previously similar requests.

GW doesnt really need an auction house, just a way to make the current trading system easier. An automated system like this is exactly what the economy of this game needs to prevent itself from further plummeting into the abyss of fail.

creelie · May 07, 2007, 03:52 PM // 15:52

/signed

You really thought this out; I'm impressed.

bilateralrope · May 07, 2007, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prowlinger

The system was designed to currently work with the engine as is and not require mass changes to the core for the simple fact that ANet said no auction houses. This is just a simple version that could be achieved without considering it a real auction house.

Making any trade system is likely to require major internal changes to allow people to view the items other people have up for sale.

Quote:

Sure there are pros and cons of it all...

Cons:
- You are required to stay online when selling stuff.
- There is no way to quickly see what other people are selling items for, meaning casual sellers will have no idea what price to ask for.
- There is no way to quickly find people selling specific items, meaning you are likely to spend ages to simply find one person selling that item. If you want to shop around for a better price, expect to spend hours looking.
- There is no way to quickly find people selling specific items, meaning that if someone gets a good spot for their stall (somewhere where players will look first) they can ask for a much higher price than anyone else and still expect a sale.
- Because people will be AFKing to sell stuff you are looking at many more people logged in at any one time than currently, meaning more server load, meaning more lag. Oh and the extra bandwidth use will cost ANET more money.

Pros:
- Might be easier to program than other ideas. But as we don't know how guild wars is implemented we can't really say either way.
- If the extra bandwidth this uses costs less than the extra CPU load costs, this might be a cheaper system to run long term. But again we need information ANET isn't releasing.

Quote:

And it shouldn't create any more lag than we already have now...

So having many more people logged on doesn't cause lag ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhCrapLions

I like the vendor idea SO MUCH more than the Auction House idea.

Why ?

A few weeks ago I would of liked this idea. But then I played maple story where they have something like this implemented, and it was horrible. So I have to ask the people signing this, have you ever encountered tried to buy specific items over a trade stall system before ?

onerabbit · May 07, 2007, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Very nice! this is something we NEED =]

thunderai · May 07, 2007, 10:05 PM // 22:05

I still think if merchants in game allowed you to view the things they purchased form players, and allowed you to purchase from them would be better. There would be no need for an auction house or anything else. The merchants are already there and the price would be set according to supply and demand without the player invovled directly in the price.

Why you cant see what other players have sold to the merchant is silly.

Lydz · May 07, 2007, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Erm...hate to break it to you lmao...but merchant prices ARE determined by supply and demand. The amount of people selling to them determines the price you pay

thunderai · May 07, 2007, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lydz

Erm...hate to break it to you lmao...but merchant prices ARE determined by supply and demand. The amount of people selling to them determines the price you pay

actually this may be true in part, but it isn't for the whole. Weapon smiths sell perfect white items, but what is the value of a gold? 400gs maybe. Players sella 400g item for 5k, usually more. So the merchant has no clue what the real price of an item is. Or Players have no idea what the real price should be. either is true, and buying from a player isn't worth a premium charge when you could simply buy the item at wholesale from the merchant, if you could.

How do we know a sword is worth 100p + 25 ectos... There is nothing saying that is true. How much do you want to bet the merchant thinks the item is worth less than 400 gold. Even the weaponsmith wont buy it for more than 400 gold. The player price is pure fiction, as they have nothing to base the price from. Rareity in it self is no proff of value according to a merchant. unless you can buy directly from the merchant anything a player says is a false economy.