Curse

freekedoutfish · May 09, 2007, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Precise

But they do.

Forbidden Keys are given out for 3 commendations, Deep/Strongroot for 5 luxon totems/equipment requisitions.

Ur point is mute because anet has already decided that "high-end" keys are fine to give out from QM's.

Also there are 34 quests that give Imp Commendations, and im assuming that that is about right for each of the trade in items, so on average u get a max of 7k or 10.5k value or approx 7 keys for each area if u do ALL the quests. You will have been questing probably for hours and hours to do them all, therefore if u do do that, u could have easily made like 30k doing average farms in that time. which is like 20 lockpicks, so by putting them in it gives u the option to quest with a decent reward for it at the end.

Im sorry, I was under the impression people were allowed to disagree with what the OP suggested?

Im doing that. My reason being that I dont agree that lock-picks or any high end keys should be given out by NPCs in exchange for tokens.

How could I give my reasoning if I didnt mention my view against the existing system?

I'm well aware the existing NPCs give out all existing key types in exchange for tokens. But as I've said, I dont agree with that. Thats why I dont agree with them giving out lock-picks too.

Atleast Im open to debate, unlike you, who is saying...

"They already give out keys from the NPCs for tokens, so there is no debating it. If you disagree, your an idiot"!

The OP should have stated "This is not open to debate, its a demand".

Saraphim · May 09, 2007, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

I know they are, I include them in my belief that Quartmaster type NPCs shouldnt give away high end gear.

Such as high end keys, super salvage kits and sup ident kits. Thats why I dont sign the idea of giving them lock-picks.

Low end gear like normal salvage kits, normal ident kits, low end keys, and bags. I dont mind, because that helps newbie players out who have little funding.

But high end players, who are doing HM, shouldnt need a helping hand to get lock-picks, or Forbidden keys or other high end gear.

Im not saying im rich and can afford to buy everything. But i hardly ever use tokens and I seem to manage.

So yes my opinion is relivant.

Seeing as you quoted me please point to where I said your opinion wasn't relevant. I am merely disagreeing with your opinion re: so-called high end items such as lockpicks; which incidentally cost less than a superior salvage kit, something which can hardly be called high end as it's available from fairly early on in both Factions and Nightfall.

Also, if you do want to quote me at least address the point (made by more people than just myself) about the connection between the lack of skill quests in the aforementioned campaigns and the addition of quartermasters in said campaigns. You can't seriously not have noticed that, surely?

Apologies to the OP if this is veering off topic.

[edit] Plus I am chuckling at the thought of me ever getting a high end object from a "high-end" chest, even those Locked Chests have given me nothing but purples. Unless I'm misinterpreting the use of "high-end"...

Precise · May 09, 2007, 12:40 PM // 12:40

wadeva...

I still dont get what ur problem with QM's is. While yes they give u free stuff, it is far less worth it than farming money for the items, far less worth it then the free skills u get in prof, and for no reason u have given so far that it shouldnt give out lockpicks/keys.

A 600g key is hardly "highend". a 2k sup salv kit is hardly high end.

Quote:

You have high-end and low-end chests. Ones that count towards treasure hunter and those which dont.

I dont think they should give keys that open high-end chests which count towards treasure hunter.

Thats what I meant by high-end keys.

Does this mean that they shouldnt give out ID kits because OMG they help u along the wisdom title track??? or XP scrolls coz OMG they help u get survivor, or booze for drunkard. No, titles have nothing to do with this.

Im not saying u cant disagree with the OP but if u are gonna disagree atleast have an argument that isnt baseless

EDIT: Sara beet me to most of this while i was writing it up

freekedoutfish · May 09, 2007, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saraphim

Seeing as you quoted me please point to where I said your opinion wasn't relevant. I am merely disagreeing with your opinion re: so-called high end items such as lockpicks; which incidentally cost less than a superior salvage kit, something which can hardly be called high end as it's available from fairly early on in both Factions and Nightfall.

Also, if you do want to quote me at least address the point (made by more people than just myself) about the connection between the lack of skill quests in the aforementioned campaigns and the addition of quartermasters in said campaigns. You can't seriously not have noticed that, surely?

Apologies to the OP if this is veering off topic.

I accept the reasons for adding Quartmaster NPCs, due to skill costs. I accept that expecting people to pay for both skills and expensive items is alot. I accept thats why Anet gave such items away free with Tokens to reduce the costs on players.

But not all items which the NPCs give away in exchange for tokens are necessities. I can understand indent kits and salvage kits being important. But keys are not. Their a luxary item, which you choose to use and you shouldnt get them free. Or atleast not the "more expensive ones" which I consider high end keys!

You can survive ingame without a key.

I dont mind the idea of NPCs exchanging tokens for items such as bags, salvage kits, ident kits, die remover, and other necessities. Those are things which you may need at one time or another. Especially bags. But keys are something that we dont NEED. They should be kept a gold-sink, or atleast the ones which open high-end chests.

Consider the NPCs which exchange tokens for gems. How is a gem a necessity? Its not, its an item used for 5k armor.

Im not disagreeing with the whole idea of NPCs exchanging items for tokens. I disagree with them exchaning tokens for none-important items. But I accept that others may think keys, lock-picks and gems, are important.

I just dont appreciate those people in the forum basically saying...

"Your stupid. NPCs already give out keys for tokens, they must add lock-picks. Anyone who doesnt agree is an idiot."

I also dont accept other people saying I was being off-topic by saying I disagree with the NPC + token thing. Because thats what the OP was talking about. This idea of NPCs giving lock-picks in exchange for tokens.

How else can I agrue my point, if I dont pick at what I see as faults? Im sorry to the OP if that got heated. I never intended that.

[edited spacing, as its a force of habbit]

Saraphim · May 09, 2007, 01:44 PM // 13:44

See now, when pushed into it I think you made your point far more eloquently (if not concisely) in this post....

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

I accept the reasons for adding Quartmaster NPCs, due to skill costs. I accept that expecting people to pay for both skills and expensive items is alot. I accept thats why Anet gave such items away free with Tokens to reduce the costs on players.But not all items which the NPCs give away in exchange for tokens are necessities. I can understand indent kits and salvage kits being important.

Agree, and pardon the editing but I'm cutting out the double spacing to save other people's wrists.

Quote:

But keys are not. Their a luxary item, which you choose to use and you shouldnt get them free. Or atleast not the "more expensive ones" which I consider high end keys! You can survive ingame without a key.

Now.. actually I must say that "luxury items" is a good definition of what a key is. Considering that most collectors will craft you a good weapon, chests are not the only way to get good gear. One of the reasons I love this game so much is that it doesn't favour the ludicrously wealthy in terms of functionality of weaponry and offhands.

Quote:

But keys are something that we dont NEED. They should be kept a gold-sink, or at least the ones which open high-end chests.

Actually, you do have a debate point there, but the fact is that as long as A.net determines that all other high-end chest keys are available from Quartermasters then Lockpick keys should really follow that pattern for the sake of fairness.

Quote:

Consider the NPCs which exchange tokens for gems. How is a gem a necessity? Its not, its an item used for 5k armor.

I'm half and half on this. I've bought Vabbi for my ele, and have a raft of TCs in storage in case I fancy splurging for any of my other toons. I like the idea that gems can be traded, however to get enough for a full set you have to play till your eyes bleed anyway, by which time you'll probably have amassed a good wedge of cash. But any 15K / Jewel armour is by definition a luxury item, so you have a point. But hey, c'mon.. should we begrudge the casual player a chance at shinies?

Quote:

I just dont appreciate those people in the forum basically saying...

"Your stupid. NPCs already give out keys for tokens, they must add lock-picks. Anyone who doesnt agree is an idiot."

Well you won't see me do it because I dislike that kind of debate. I feel I should say though Freekedoutfish, you're not unaccustomed to calling out people as lazy or stupid in your own thread starting posts. Ya, I don't post that much, but I read a lot of them, and I'm not terribly confrontational which is why I don't PVP

Quote:

I also dont accept other people saying I was being off-topic by saying I disagree with the NPC + token thing. Because thats what the OP was talking about. This idea of NPCs giving lock-picks in exchange for tokens.

How else can I agrue my point, if I dont pick at what I see as faults?

For what it's worth I agree, and I also apologise once again for veering off. My last word I promise, and fish.. don't take anything I say personally. My posts are never done in haste or malice.

glountz · May 09, 2007, 03:43 PM // 15:43

/Signed.
And by the way, add more token-rewarding quests.
-Master quests (like the Battle of Turai) should award a bunch of tokens.
-Add Hard Mode higlhy rewarding quests (Did you try the Battle of Turai in HM?)

PS: Fish, stop trolling.

El Panty Bandito · May 09, 2007, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Thank you to those that kept this on topic about adding lockpicks.

Continue to sign away people! I really think Anet is going to see this and consider it!

Thank you all again for your support.

Mylon · May 09, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Sounds like a great idea. Tokens are a one-time thing that can only be gotten from quests. Players would make more money farming for cash than they would questing for tokens, but these would still be a nice reward for the players that play for the quests and such.

MithranArkanere · May 09, 2007, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Welll the topic is:

"Add lockpicks to quartermasters"

NOT

"Remove keys from quartermasters"

If you don't like keys being given to those who spent the sometimes boring work of making quests, then make another thread, but, please, do not change the subject of this one.

No one 'need' beer, or superior identification or salvage kits, or scrolls, nor keys.
But they are already given in quartermasters, as they are sold in merchants.

There won't be mayor changes.
Quests reward tokens are meant t be an alternate way to get some items you could get only in some merchants, traders or even crafters.
You don't like people making quests... well... developers spent some time making them. And most people do like doing them. That deserves a reward.

So adding lockpicks to the 5token collectors would be absolutely logical.

freekedoutfish · May 10, 2007, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Welll the topic is:

"Add lockpicks to quartermasters"

NOT

"Remove keys from quartermasters"

I give up if you honestly cant see the connection between me disagreeing with giving lockpicks to quartmasters and me explaining why, by explaining why quartmasters shouldnt have keys.

If you cant understand how those are connected, and understand how its relivant to my opinion, despite the countless times ive tried to explain, I'm giving up. You just simply refuse to even listen.

And I wasnt trolling, I was trying to put my opinion accross, but others felt it wasnt relivant and decided to bash me for it.

Enjoy your nice open debate where people arent allowed to disagree. Again to the OP, I never intended for anything to go off-topic, because I didnt.

[edit for posters bellow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Precise

And if u think that im saying ur rong ur an idiot, im not trying that at all. Just saying that i think u need to put into perspective that from what ur saying its a luxury good, can be applied to everything recieved from the QM.

Concidering I agree with everything you said, the idiot remark was somewhat uncalled for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Sword Keeper

Um too much gold in the game? Dude....GOLD Is practically rare now.
Farming has been disabled....If you need a detailed explanation I will
proudly explain it.

Also don't go round giving out stupid and meaningless posts such as that.
Remember not all players can be as good as you.

Keep that in mind.

Gold isnt rare. You can make 1-5k easily from one mission or quest, by just picking up drops and selling them the merchant afterwards. Making gold isnt a hard thing to do.

And that meaningless post was in response to the countless posts basically saying "Shut up, your opinion doesnt count, your an idiot". Something I dont deserve, because I havent flamed anyone, insulting anyone, spoken down to anyone.

I have simply tried to make people realise the connection to me disagreeing with the OP and my views about Quartermasters. I havent been rude, or arrogant or l33t in the slightest. Infact its me who has been spoken down to, but the other posters who felt my opinion wasnt worth a penny.

Am I not allowed to defend my view, when its so blatently being ripped apart?

Precise · May 10, 2007, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Hey Fish, just gonna point out u can survive in the game without Iding, Salvaging and having the extra bags. U can sell all ur items to the merchant Unid, if u get a mod u can sell it on its current weapon. By what i gathered as ur definition of a "luxury good" everything at the QM is a luxury good.

Why not make it so that u cannot get anything without paying for it, coz everything is a luxury good.

Everything can be offloaded as a "luxury good" if u want. Realistically u could get through the game without spending a dime. Get collector armors, collector weapons, and only use ur starter skills. Everything is a "luxury good".

And if u think that im saying ur rong ur an idiot, im not trying that at all. Just saying that i think u need to put into perspective that from what ur saying its a luxury good, can be applied to everything recieved from the QM.

Master Sword Keeper · May 10, 2007, 09:18 AM // 09:18

@freekedoutfish

Um too much gold in the game? Dude....GOLD Is practically rare now.
Farming has been disabled....If you need a detailed explanation I will
proudly explain it.

Also don't go round giving out stupid and meaningless posts such as that.
Remember not all players can be as good as you.

Keep that in mind.

Div · May 10, 2007, 09:51 AM // 09:51

The way for guild wars to keep total gold amounts in check isn't through limiting the types of items given out by quartermasters. If you think your 30-40k from selling sup salvage kits is going to affect the economy, think again. It takes tens of hours to beat the game (possibly a few weeks real time, per character) and accumulate all those tradeable items, and all you get is that amount of gold. Compare that to a simple gold sink such as 9 rings that can take out ~150-200k per person each weekend. Being able to save a few thousand gold every time you beat the game is really next to nothing for gold farmers and rich people, but can really benefit starters.

And seriously, who puts their titles in their profile picture...

MithranArkanere · May 10, 2007, 09:44 PM // 21:44

In the time you make a quest, you could be getting much moreolg than the 200g that an imperial commendation is worth.

No need to say more.