Curse

lightblade · May 11, 2007, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Note: I do not claim these changes to be the best (so don't flame me if you think the change would make them overpowered ), but I do think they need to be changed one way or another.

Domination:
Enchanter's Conundrum: change to AoE to effect nearby foes
Psychic Instability: extend knockdown time to 3 seconds.
Overload: increase conditional damage to 5..80
Ignorance: reduce cost to 10 energy

Illusion:
Air of Disenchantment: AoE one ring bigger; to nearby foes
Arcane Conundrum: to 1 second cast
Fevered Dreams: change machanics to spread condition when condition is renewed.
Shared Burden: reduce recharge to 15 seconds. It is an elite after all.

Inspiration:
Extend Conditions: reduce recharge to 2 seconds; or...more helpful, make this effect "nearby" foes.
Keystone Signet: reduce recharge to 0 and change machanics to: All signets are recharged and Keystone Signet is disabled for 17...9 seconds.
Lyssa's Aura: increase duration to 5..17 seconds
Tease: Change to skill, not hex; so the only way to remove it is for the target to hit you.

No Attributes:
Arcane Mimicry: reduce recharge to 30 seconds
Epidemic: extend AoE to nearby
Hypochondria: reduce cast time to 1/4
Signet of Disenchantment: none. This skill just under used for no reason.

Pericles · May 11, 2007, 06:19 PM // 18:19

I agree with everything u say except your change at psychic instability, 3 sec knockdown is a lot and the conditions are not to hard to meet.
Other than this, i'd say an excelent thread!

MSecorsky · May 11, 2007, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Chaos Storm - increase AoE.

lightblade · May 11, 2007, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Chaos Storm - increase AoE.

Chaos Storm is actually fine. It's powerful enough even if it hit one target.

LONGA · May 11, 2007, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Signet of disenchantment cost too much for sure.Unless you are running a full signet build which is not really effective.

Overload is fine if condition is met if not it should do a little more damge.A wanding damge still do better. and increase its casting time to ensure that no other class except mesmer can use this effetively.

Mylon · May 11, 2007, 08:40 PM // 20:40

To be honest, mesmers suck. This is just scraping the tip of the iceberg. I've given up on even including full mesmers in my PvE team (except in Echovald where the mesmer hero is actually better than the other pathetic choices like Charge!) or playing them in RA/TA. I use them as a secondary to get a couple of interrupts and diversion, but as a full class they don't do enough damage and they don't do enough shutdown.

Let's see... I can attempt to interrupt my opponent casting Signet of Devotion... Oh wait, mesmers have a hard time interrupting non-spell skills. When they do interrupt something, they often do some kind of trivial effect and have a long recharge time on it. Edenial does nothing when the enemy switches to a +30e/-2eregen set just to cast a spell and then switches back.

Rangers make better interrupters since they can just spam it and do decent damage at the same time, plus one of their best spammable interrupts also disables the skill, which mesmers only have Power Block to compete with. Rangers can even do edenial with debilitating shot and quickening zephyr (plus maybe an attack recharge like oath shot). Necros make better hex spammers and can do edenial as well in the form of negative regen, plus spam some nice hexes to kill opponents like Insidious Parasite.

Yeah... All of the other classes have gotten a nice inflation of power since Prophecies, or maybe people have just found more optimal builds. Mesmers haven't really gotten any better.

lightblade · May 11, 2007, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mylon

To be honest, mesmers suck. This is just scraping the tip of the iceberg. I've given up on even including full mesmers in my PvE team (except in Echovald where the mesmer hero is actually better than the other pathetic choices like Charge!) or playing them in RA/TA. I use them as a secondary to get a couple of interrupts and diversion, but as a full class they don't do enough damage and they don't do enough shutdown.

Let's see... I can attempt to interrupt my opponent casting Signet of Devotion... Oh wait, mesmers have a hard time interrupting non-spell skills. When they do interrupt something, they often do some kind of trivial effect and have a long recharge time on it. Edenial does nothing when the enemy switches to a +30e/-2eregen set just to cast a spell and then switches back.

Rangers make better interrupters since they can just spam it and do decent damage at the same time, plus one of their best spammable interrupts also disables the skill, which mesmers only have Power Block to compete with. Rangers can even do edenial with debilitating shot and quickening zephyr (plus maybe an attack recharge like oath shot). Necros make better hex spammers and can do edenial as well in the form of negative regen, plus spam some nice hexes to kill opponents like Insidious Parasite.

Yeah... All of the other classes have gotten a nice inflation of power since Prophecies, or maybe people have just found more optimal builds. Mesmers haven't really gotten any better.

As a veteran mesmer player, I can tell you mesmers do not suck.

As for your Signet of Devotion, I give you [skill=text]Complicate[/skill] and [skill=text]Psychic Distraction[/skill].
Can your ranger interrupt 3/4 cast Word of Healing on reflex? I don't think so.

Rangers don't make better interrupter because they can spam it. Blindly spamming interrupts are totally useless. This is why nobody uses [skill=text]Incendiary Arrows[/skill].

Skye Marin · May 11, 2007, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Air of Disenchantment and Enchanter's Conundrum have an odd effect. They double the cast time of enchantments, which doesn't make much sense because most useful enchantments cast in 1/4 to 3/4 of a second. The skill would be much more useful if they added a flat 0..3 seconds or even 0..2 seconds to the cast time of any enchantment. It would be like Migrane to any other spell, except with enchantments.

Extend Conditions wouldn't be much more useful if the AoE was simply increased. Conditions are too easily removed. To make the skill worthwhile, a unique ability should be present, like:

Whenever target foe would lose a condition prematurely, that foe has a 45..75% chance that that condition is renewed for 5..10 seconds.

I'm afraid your buff to Keystone Signet would be too powerful for use with Ether Signet. Otherwise, good other buffs.

lightblade · May 11, 2007, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skye Marin

Air of Disenchantment and Enchanter's Conundrum have an odd effect. They double the cast time of enchantments, which doesn't make much sense because most useful enchantments cast in 1/4 to 3/4 of a second. The skill would be much more useful if they added a flat 0..3 seconds or even 0..2 seconds to the cast time of any enchantment. It would be like Migrane to any other spell, except with enchantments.

Extend Conditions wouldn't be much more useful if the AoE was simply increased. Conditions are too easily removed. To make the skill worthwhile, a unique ability should be present, like:

Whenever target foe would lose a condition prematurely, that foe has a 45..75% chance that that condition is renewed for 5..10 seconds.

I'm afraid your buff to Keystone Signet would be too powerful for use with Ether Signet. Otherwise, good other buffs.

Air of Disenchantment: I actually didn't test this out, but if you read the discription carefully, you'll see Air of Disenchantment will remove enchantment when the hex is removed (on duration expiration or otherwise). If this is the case, then the 100% more casting time wouldn't matter that much.

Enchanter's Conundrum: Um...the 100% extra cast time does help a lot. But the after effect of damage is very hard to trigger, because if the target uses enchantment, there will always some enchantment remain on the target.

Extend Conditions: I actually came up with that idea before, but put it down. Mainly because if it refreshes again, it will trigger Frigility twice.

Keystone Signet: That would cause you to use 2 skill slots for energy and one of them is an elite! Again, if you're even using Keystone Signet chances are your bar is filled with signets and won't be needing Ether Signet anyway.

Skye Marin · May 11, 2007, 10:32 PM // 22:32

No matter how you slice it, your Keystone Signet + Current Ether Signet would give more energy more reliably than Offering of Blood minus the 5 energy and 20% health cost of Offering of Blood. Having all your signets recharge is just an added bonus.

B Ephekt · May 11, 2007, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Rangers make better interrupters since they can just spam it and do decent damage at the same time

Rangers are easier to shutdown with blind, miss hexes and blocks. Interrupts suck when spammed mindlessly, and mesmer have fast casting allowing them to hit 3/4s cast more easily. If you want skill disabling there is PD and Diversion, the latter of which disables for more than double the duration of distracting shot.

Unless you're relying on a ranger for degen, mesmers are generally a better choice for interrupts.

Furthermore, mesmers don't suck. They are in fact quite powerful in pvp, if played by a competent player. Mesmers suck in pve because their niche does not fit in well with slaughtering mindless AI as fast as possible.

Quote:

Can your ranger interrupt 3/4 cast Word of Healing on reflex? I don't think so.

Good rangers can. Interrupting as a ranger is about more than reflexes though.

Nevin · May 11, 2007, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Yes my ranger can... In a matter of fact my ranger has interrupted 1/2 second cast time spells as well. If you have good reflexes a ranger is much better for interrupting.

ACreator · May 11, 2007, 11:02 PM // 23:02

1st - actualy mesmers own anything if they know what they are up to.
2nd - mesmers are in best interrupters though if seen a ranger interrupt my infuse while I had healer's boon on...

Dinkytowner · May 11, 2007, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

Yes my ranger can... In a matter of fact my ranger has interrupted 1/2 second cast time spells as well. If you have good reflexes a ranger is much better for interrupting.

You've interupted 1/2 second casts for one reason and one reason only. Because rangers will just spam savage/dist randomly because of low energy cost and quick recharge. If you have good reflexes, interupting on a mesmer is much more effective. You don't have to bother with that flight time crap. Interupting with a ranger is about anticipating when they will cast.

pingu666 · May 11, 2007, 11:17 PM // 23:17

ranger has broad head arrow too, dazed owns most casters

i much prefer my ranger for interupting

savage/bha/distracting shot then optional conncusion shot

in pve who uses blocking stances? warriors, rangers, assassins and dervishes (slightly)

so mesmer isnt so hot vs them anyways

B Ephekt · May 11, 2007, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Good rangers can hit 1s and 3/4s casts on reflex alone. 3/4s requires you to be close and have a recurve though.

A lot of ranger interrupting comes from predicting when a cast will come based on a player's cast patterns or a skill recharge time. For example, it's very easy to dshot RC (which is a 3/4s cast) in a condition build since the enemy monk will most likely be spamming it every 2.75 seconds.

Shadow Kurd · May 11, 2007, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

Yes my ranger can... In a matter of fact my ranger has interrupted 1/2 second cast time spells as well. If you have good reflexes a ranger is much better for interrupting.

[skill]Shame[/skill][skill]Guilt[/skill][skill]Mistrust[/skill]
What u need reflex for

But still i think there both VERY close:

Shutdown
Mesmer:
[skill]Diversion[/skill][skill]Signet of Humility[/skill][skill]Power block[/skill][skill]Blackout[/skill]

Ranger
[skill]Choking gas[/skill][skill]Flurry[/skill][skill]Practiced Stance[/skill](combined so leaves less space for something else)

FAST interrupt
[skill]Power return[/skill]
[skill]Magebane Shot[/skill]

And the mother of all interrupts:
[skill]Cry of Frustration[/skill]

Mylon · May 11, 2007, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Diversion is, in my opinion, the best mesmer skill, period. Being able to shut down a skill for a minute (or a little over half a minute if using it as a secondary) is very powerful indeed.

As for interrupting... Interrupts by themselves are not very powerful. They can sink a kill, but so can extra damage, deep wound, etc. Rangers get the bonus of being able to deal damage as they interrupt, interrupt any skill (including those annoying rituals), with one of their better interrupts even disabling the interrupted skill for a good period of time, all while doing damage. Mesmers are limited by expensive skills, slow recharges, and lackluster side effects on top of the interrupts.

XvArchonvX · May 11, 2007, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightblade

Can your ranger interrupt 3/4 cast Word of Healing on reflex? I don't think so.

Rangers don't make better interrupter because they can spam it. Blindly spamming interrupts are totally useless. This is why nobody uses [skill=text]Incendiary Arrows[/skill].

Reflex is only part of interrupting successfully. Predicting when a skill will be used can often allow interrupts on skills with very low cast times. If casting times are too long, then Broadhead Arrow can be used to inflict dazed and allow a more steady stream of interuption.

Also, Incendiary Arrows isn't used because it doesn't last the full length of its recharge. Choking Gas + Practiced Stance + Needling Shot, however, is used and can provide better interruption along with an AoE effect.

Mesmer interrupts are simply different than ranger interrupts, but neither is clearly superior.

lightblade · May 11, 2007, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

Yes my ranger can... In a matter of fact my ranger has interrupted 1/2 second cast time spells as well. If you have good reflexes a ranger is much better for interrupting.

Human Reflex = .25 second
Bow interrupt cast = .5 second

Add that you get 3/4 second and it's impossible.

Find me in game and lets see you can interrupt my 3/4 cast tease
(yes, even in melee range you can't interrupt 3/4 cast)