Curse

PreWyurm · May 13, 2007, 07:28 AM // 07:28

No to your suggestion

You are suggesting a very huge and negative change to the: gameplay, economy (which has already suffered enough controls), and general mood of players.

First time through, sure, not a problem. Second, third, fourth. Well, its supposed to be a game, a way to relax and enjoy your free-time, not work. If you enjoy repeating all the quests and missions over and over, you are free to do so. But, there's no sense in wasting everyone elses time just because you dont like what you perceive as laziness.

So, once again, I am ABSOLUTELY AGAINST this.

ClanYumemiru · May 13, 2007, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

ClanYumemiru,

You are mentioning story progress as one of reasons to put gates at certain points, if I read that correctly.

Did you finish all the titan quests?

No, because I can't find people for it. Most of them seem more interested in finding new ways to circumvent playing the game rather than putting in the effort to go do it - or "helping" others do same.

Quote:

Those are part of the story, you know.

I partly dispute calling them "storyline" quests - after all, to get them I have to fullfill the Flameseeker Prophecies, right ?

Quote:

And how many people play those quests?
How many people don't even know those quests exist?
I think that's far more than the people whining for a Droks run in Beacons.

But won't you agree that if more people thought of playing quests/missions and the story as a challenge rather than as obstacles they have to find ways around, there would be more people actually doing the Titan quests ? Hmm ?
(For that matter you may argue that the Domain of Anguish is a NF storyline section as well - I'm loathe to do so given its both its rather fearsome reputation and -intentional- high difficulty level. And remember that the Titan quests were not part of the original Prophecies but were, IIRC, added later (29th of September 2005) as (quote) "veteran-level quests" - you might call them the precursor to Elite Missions

The problem isn't just Beacon's anymore, unfortunately.
It's spread from there to Lion's Arch (ToA/Cay run - ToA I can marginally understand, it's in a real sucky location), Kamadan (various ferries), etc ...
Add it all up and it's become a major problem that deserves a thorough solution.

But really, ask yourself -why- people don't know about Titan quests; I can name a few reasons:

1. People who re-enter the Forge from Hell's Precipice are only too happy to have "finished it" and are already looking towards other shores
2. Those who ARE trying to do them have to spam their LFG's in various outposts for hours on end (or hope they have enough friends to form a group) and compete for chat space with either runners or people who are 'home' in that area and haven't got the slightest idea what a Titan quest is yet, why it is very hard to do, and if they learn, they typically want none of it

ClanYumemiru · May 13, 2007, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by PreWyurm

No to your suggestion

You are suggesting a very huge and negative change to the: gameplay, economy (which has already suffered enough controls), and general mood of players.

Yes, I am advocating a change that will negatively impact a group of very vocal players that are abusing sections of the game for their own gain
at the cost of others.

Quote:

First time through, sure, not a problem. Second, third, fourth. Well, its supposed to be a game, a way to relax and enjoy your free-time, not work. If you enjoy repeating all the quests and missions over and over, you are free to do so. But, there's no sense in wasting everyone elses time just because you dont like what you perceive as laziness.

So, once again, I am ABSOLUTELY AGAINST this.

I am going to remind you too, that you unlock locations by character, not by account. Or would you have preferred that instead ?

Cjad the Nord · May 13, 2007, 08:04 AM // 08:04

I feel left out that MY post didn't get the same "dissect-into-itty-bits-then-debunk-with-personal-opinions" treatment. :/

Operative 14 · May 13, 2007, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

Well I guess I'm your first.

Well, my mistake

Though still, you didn't do it on purpose, nor to get fancy gear. It was just a fortuitous occassion of a guild mate helping out

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotrfish

/signed for removing running

Though, this may not be the best solution. Running is exploiting a flaw in the game, which I'm pretty sure was never intended. However people are used to being lazy and skipping many parts of the game, a game which is meant to be played. Therefore, this would anger many players as seen on this thread. I believe Anet is addressing this problem, among many others in GW2. In this case they can start over and get rid of running without having it anger the population. Anet is also gettting rid of all the n00b content you guys are complaining about in Eye of the North. I really enjoy playing through the entirety of all the games, I've gotten all of ym 6 PvE characters through multiple campaigns without running and doing every quest. My ultimate goal is to get Grand Master Cartographer and Vanquisher for all three campaigns on eveyr charcter before GW2 comes out. I just don't see why people would want to skip parts of this amazing game.

Running isn't exploiting a flaw, or something would have been done to forestall it. Especially since they did such a good job blocking that activity in Factions, then reinstated the ability in nightfall to a great extent.

If not wanting to spend hours and hours playing the same Game content over and over again makes me lazy, then I gladly wear the title; I have more productive things to do...

Yes, this game is meant to be played. It's a Role Playing Game; You can decide to play however you want. That's what makes it different from first person shooters or other such games.

What exactly are you refering to as n00b content? No one in this thread, from what I can see, is complaining about the low level areas, they are simply stating the virtues of not being FORCED to partake in them. It doesn't hurt anyone to run. They don't get brain damage, the don't get lung cancer, they don't get a bad sunburn. The only thing they are missing is game content that more than likely a great majority of them have seen before. Everyone here has enjoyed playing through the game content, and it is commendable that you still find it fun to do after 6 characters. And I truely wish you the best of luck in your Cartographer endevour

And Cjad the Nord, you summed it up the best. Why would it bother anyone how others play the game if it doesn't affect them? Runners and Runnee's aren't exploiting or damaging the program. I admit, some running techniques do bend a bit to the shady side (the Kamadan - LA guildhall ferry being the best example), However the only person who is affected is the runner (time and profit if they are charging for the run) and the runnee (Saved time, better armor, loss of money if the runner is charging etc.).

As I said before, Guild Wars is a Role Playing Game. This gives the player in the game the ability to make decisions, and that is what makes GW so fun. Should I save my money, or should I buy that icy dragon sword? Should I go north and go to Bettletun, or south and go to Bergen Hotsprings? Should I skip this scene where [blocked content for new players] Dies or keep watching? Should I spend my money and pay 2k for that run to Yaks from Ascalon, or should I scout beyond the the Northern Wall, be pushed back to Fort Ranik by the dreaded Charr, break out of Fort Ranik and head north and go to the destroyed city and get transported to this other town where I get to watch Rurick get kicked out of the house by his Dad... again.

peterchen620 · May 13, 2007, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparda

i just think it's an attitude that is wrong what does you give the rights 2 cheat the game iff you played ones before i think that is laim and NOOB.
or maybe you are all runners or some of you at least and when they put gates in the game.
It's bad for al u guys couse you don't get any money from it

Everyone has the freedom to do so. Why restrict?

Why call a guy a 'NOOB' or 'laim' for getting his character to Droks? You never know they are 'NOOB' or not, since you are not them.

It is not bad, since it saves time for getting to a particular place.

Quote:

It's bad for al u guys couse you don't get any money from it

You are not making any money either. Games are meant to be wasting our time, not making money.

Running to a specific place is not cheating. Botting is.

This thread is pointless... The OP doesn't make a clear explanation on WHY they should add gates in Tyria. I'm getting a headache from reading this... Mainly because I don't like the OP's attitude, and go randomly calling people 'N00B" for a stupid reason.

Curse You · May 13, 2007, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClanYumemiru

I am going to remind you too, that you unlock locations by character, not by account. Or would you have preferred that instead ?

I love how you keep contradicting yourself like that. You say you want to basically lock up people's ability to go where they please, but keep stressing how locations are unlocked per character and not by account.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClanYumemiru

Yes, I am advocating a change that will negatively impact a group of very vocal players that are abusing sections of the game for their own gain at the cost of others.

... You're not supposed to be further stressing how bad an idea this is by saying something like that. And to think, this is what you do when you agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClanYumemiru

No, because I can't find people for it. Most of them seem more interested in finding new ways to circumvent playing the game rather than putting in the effort to go do it - or "helping" others do same.

That's a mighty opinionated statement there. Most people are not just sitting around thinking, "how can I get my lvl 3 monk from Kamadan to Vabbi in only 1 hour?" like you seem to think they are. Most people are doing the missions, which means, last time I checked, they are playing the game (even in your strange sense). For that matter, a person who is getting run is "playing the game" since they are logged in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClanYumemiru

But won't you agree that if more people thought of playing quests/missions and the story as a challenge rather than as obstacles they have to find ways around, there would be more people actually doing the Titan quests ? Hmm ?

So instead of letting people play the game how they want, you want to cram one play style down everyone's throat? Something that forces everyone to do something they might not want to do, sounds like fun, or maybe I could go to school, which sounds more fun in comparison.

As far as I can see, the whole point you're trying to argue is based around a campaign that has been out for two years. Quite frankly, two years ago, I was playing Battlefield 2, and now I'm playing Battlefield 2142. Prophecies is old, get over it. The real reason you can't find a group in the Jungle is not because Joe The Warrior is running lvl 5's to Droknar's, it's because there are two newer campaigns with more interesting content.

Div · May 13, 2007, 08:54 AM // 08:54

So instead of the players being run from one place to another, there will be lots of level 3's in town spamming for runners for that mission instead. How does that contribute to the overall playing population in those areas?

brian78wa · May 13, 2007, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClanYumemiru

Yes, I am advocating a change that will negatively impact a group of very vocal players that are abusing sections of the game for their own gain
at the cost of others.

How is this at the cost of others? I saw in a previous post you said that its cause theres less players to play iwth if they get ran. Who says theyd play with you if they didnt get ran? I wouldnt. I play with hench/heroes cause they are far superior to 90% of the players out there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClanYumemiru

I am going to remind you too, that you unlock locations by character, not by account. Or would you have preferred that instead ?

Um who cares? what does this have to do with people wanting to get any char they want to ran?

Also if you closed off tyria all of a sudden all youre going to do is make people upset. Then you would end up with people leeching in missions. Intead of being ran to droks they will stand at the begining of the missions. Or if they made it to where you had to be with group they would just follow but not do anything. This is a horrible idea and I would seriously hope it never happened. I doubt it will though so im not worried.

manitoba1073 · May 13, 2007, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Not to put down the freedom of speech, but seriously these ppl need to STF about telling ppl to play the game only how they precieve it to be played. Now i have 19 chars theres no way in hell im doing the long way on each. You dont like ppl being run fine thats you're perogetive, But dont even think you can force me to play your way cause you cant find a group or even use henchies.

miss fire light · May 13, 2007, 09:19 AM // 09:19

LMFAO omg lame idea

/not signed
/not signed

milan · May 13, 2007, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Stop being lazy, put in the grind and hard work, don't you know that it's a serious business where you're affecting people you don't know half way across the world!

Jesus, anyone would think this was a game!

PreWyurm · May 13, 2007, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by milan

Stop being lazy, put in the grind and hard work,

Thats exactly what's nice about Guild Wars, its NOT a grind. Don't try turning it into one like every other game out there.

Quote:

don't you know that it's a serious business where you're affecting people you don't know half way across the world!

Jesus, anyone would think this was a game!

Umm, what? you're going to have to explain that as it really doesnt make any sense to me.

Sparda · May 13, 2007, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Please tell me why you think that running is a good thing.
Why skip a large part of the game, the game was made 2 play not 2 skip a large part of it.
Put some effort in your game play.
Just like ClanYumemiru said. The game is an privilege. Play the game how it's ment 2 be not how you people seem fit.
the only thing some of you do here is going in a circle only to keep saying that running is good and there should not place gates.
Are some of you blind, don't you see our point of view.

shirosae · May 13, 2007, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Adding gates to Tyria would be a great way to reduce the population of early areas from very few to none+cartographers.

People hate pugs. People hate gates. You're not going to force them to party with you by removing all alternatives, no matter how much you try. They'll leave the continent first, and the game later.

Aside from that, how would you deal with people who enter Tyria for the first time from Cantha or Elona? Will they automatically have the road to Ascalon unlocked, or will they have to do some silly set of non-tyrian only quests to run the storyline backwards?

If you have it unlocked for non-Tyrians, won't people who want to avoid playing through the Tyrian storyline just map the area out using non-Tyrian characters instead? Wouldn't that just have increased the number of people who avoid Tyrian characters purely to avoid the early grind, thereby removing even more people from early quests and missions?

This game may well be a privilege (i consider it a product, but i digress), but it's a privilege that people can and will walk away from if/when it stops being entertaining. If people currently don't find doing early missions and quests entertaining, they're going to go play something else that is, whether that something else is in Guild Wars or not.

Nose > Spite > Face.

viper11025 · May 13, 2007, 02:29 PM // 14:29

/NOTSIGNED
Why limit us even more?

ClanYumemiru · May 13, 2007, 02:47 PM // 14:47

/signed

Because I believe that it's doing damage to the game as a whole by allowing people to skip over "undesirable" sections of the game, and removes part of the challenge factor of the game

/notsigned

Because it's a crude and inelegant solution, which creates two tiers of characters - those before and those after, and because Prophecies presents its own daunting challenges that set it apart from the other two.

That said, I find it hard to condone or support running, but I also understand people's positions in this thread; yes, you are free to play the game as you choose, unfortunately for me that includes running - and the chances of -major- changes being implemented to combat or curb it are frankly nil.

I have found the various arguments presented on both sides of the issue very enlightening, very interesting even, kudos to the people who entered the discussion and put their points forward rather than just giving a kneejerk reaction - I apologize if I offended anyone with my rather harsh tone - none was intended, but I sometimes get a little carried away in a heated debate

Now to find another "hot" issue and do it all over again.
Oh - AFTER I finish my next character project; and no, I'm not using runs or ferries

Alex the Great · May 13, 2007, 03:02 PM // 15:02

just becasue you are to poor to aford a run dosen't mean no one can get one.

we earned our money for the run so we arn't lazy.
i got better things to do than play through prophesis for a third time just to cap some elite.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · May 13, 2007, 03:27 PM // 15:27

/notsigned, removing running from factions and NF was the stupidest thing ever... factions is hard because it's almost impossible to get a group, and NF is just too RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing long!

aff1nity · May 13, 2007, 03:40 PM // 15:40

/not signed

What bothers me: people trying to affect the gameplay of everyone else solely based on their opinions and personal experience, without trying to gather larger samples of data to back up their arguments.

No one cares what you feel running is doing to the game. No one cares what you believe running is doing to the game. If you can show that running is having a negative impact or positive impact using statistical analysis (i.e. regressing the number of players in a certain mission based off of the cost of runs), then people should listen to you (they probably still won't. You'll probably still have to deal with the 12 year olds, you know who you are!)

This, of course, is probably beyond what most people want to do with their time (thankfully so!)

Just remember, whenever you get into a heated argument based solely on your opinions and personal experiences (for or against running), your arguments are equally invalid.