Curse

pipedream · May 22, 2007, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Get Rid of the Bots!!! - The solution is SO SIMPLE

Ok the solution is simple in theory.

I know you guys who design these games can't be totally ignorant to the way these bots operate. The key to a bot, its heart and soul, is... CONSISTENCY!

Take away its constant and the bot doesn't know how to function, well it will still function but it won't be performing the tasks the end user is looking for.

Ask your self this, Why do you only see bots in certain areas? The answer is not, the "loot" is better there. The answer is the area contains a constant.

If your not following, a constant is creating a system to record a complete loop with no seems and repeat it forever... the location you may zone to, always getting the same spot and facing the same direction. This is vital for a bot. It is the heart and soul of its needed constant. The enter mission button, merchant, storage and inventory window... always open in the last spot and in the last size u left them.

This next feature is almost prompting the use of bots... The Merchant remembers the bags you select and not select be available, this feature makes the bots REALLY happy cuz they can ID, Sell, Salvage and have almost total control of what is keep and what is sold to the merchant as part of the seamless loop.

Prophicies - Bergen Hot Springs... currently riddled with 55 monk bots, but along side are real 55 monk farmers. Given my theory, if you change the game coding or what ever you do to program these games so that, when you zone into a town or out post, the location is random. Bots can't handle random.

THE ANSWER IS RANDOMIZE THE CONSTANTS IN SOME WAY AND THE BOTS WILL GO AWAY

(If this post belongs some where else, sorry. This seemed like the most logical place for it.)

vergerefosh · May 22, 2007, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Sounds simple, but will it work? Could just get smarter bots

Eldin · May 22, 2007, 12:31 AM // 00:31

They may be able to code bots to calculate/pinpoint the locations (unless the areas are TOTALLY random within being in a reachable area).

It's a simple yet probably effective idea. It's true a bot is set up in one way. If you, say, put an enemy the bot is not set up to handle, goodbye, Mr. Roboto.

pipedream · May 22, 2007, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Note: So no one gets the wrong idea, I am not suggesting modding game play... the suggestion is make it so the bot can't navigate itself out of town or to the merch so on and so forth

Evan montegarde · May 22, 2007, 12:48 AM // 00:48

I think it would make more sense to randomize where the enemies spawn in an instance, within a short range.

Annom · May 22, 2007, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Ehh, may be too difficult to execute correctly.

Kaida the Heartless · May 22, 2007, 02:18 AM // 02:18

This is not how botting programs work. They are usually based on a vector system fed with boolean values. I'm not going into a big speech about how it works here but, from my experience, the bot works something like:

Move to coordinates (43, -58, 32).

Instead of:

Turn 2 degrees left and take 5 steps/move 5 meters/move from a countdown of 3 until 0/etc.

Second, many bots work based on a boolean system (true and false). An example may be (not exact coding):

Has Prot Spirit worn off: If yes, recast Prot Spirit, if no, do nothing.

The same could be applied to gathering monsters:

If maximum value of minotaurs within "aggro" range is <8, then move to "farm" mode. If not, continue route. If else, continue route.

Aggro range would be determined by another set of values, etc. Bots feed off of the memory in your computer to get these values, i.e. knowing when prot spirit is going to run off, where minotaurs are at, etc.

I'm not a professional coder or anything of the such by any means, but I've taken apart quite a few programs of this nature and I'm almost positive this is how most of them work.

A basic example would be Aimbots on games such as Counterstrike. These still operate in the same fashion and they can lock onto heads of other players that are randomly in motion. Randomizing won't work here. :/

Replicant · May 22, 2007, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Bot's don't need to know where they spawn.

check how the bots operate, they do a lot of spinning to look for the sign (yellow) to leave the city, or look for the merchant names (green).

hell, with enough programming experience this would have very little impact on bots.

for example, all the bot would have to do is look for the specific pixel color and then select a bigger portion of the screen and run an OCR (Optical character recognition) app on it.

so.. lets say the first hit gets the storage person.. they would then select a rectangle about 75 pixels wide, 20 pixels high (estimating). and then run it through an OCR app. the app would do it's best and would come out with a "Xunlai Agent [Storage]" string. the bot would then say, oh i don't need to hit storage, check another section of the screen, and look for the next green pixel. (and rinse and repeat till the merchant is selected. then the built in auto-pilot mode would allow the bot to run to the merchant, sell, and then look for yellow (sign)... read it and go out, or look for another yellow sign.

would make writing a bot a little more complicated, but not too much.

and moving around windows and stuff is stupid, they keep the location of window placement for our convince... who do you think would whine more? Bots that can just look for the "enter mission" text.. or players that have to play whack-a-mole with their windows cause every time they zone their party menu, merchant window, storage windows, etc.. move around.

and as Kaida the Heartless has mentioned, bots usually run on X Y Z type system..
send packet to move to 100 42 8 and the client would move there.
of course, this would require someone smart enough to decrypt and encrypt guildwars packets.

Div · May 22, 2007, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Use the search function. People have suggested stuff like this before. Plus, it's not as easy as you think, and definitely not very practical.

JeniM · May 22, 2007, 06:32 AM // 06:32

What about people that like consistancy?
It would really bug me if everytime i zoned i was facing a different direction and 2 meters to the left
And as for windows moving round and changing whether my Equipped are listed at merch would make me sell me sword first time i'm tired, and sell my GW soon after that!
I like constants. I like knowing my radar will be in top right next time i spawn and i don't need to hit F11 and change the interface round every time i zone

I got another good idea let's make it randomize hotkeys everytime the player moves

flyinhigh · May 22, 2007, 06:44 AM // 06:44

you can program variables into a bot. they are randomly generated values between 2 points. you then have it run the random's every loop. consistency problem solved.

freekedoutfish · May 22, 2007, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Randomising areas wouldnt stop people using bots. People would just make more bots, and put them in varied places.

To say that Anet is "ignorant" to the problem of bots is stepping over the line. They are well aware of the problem, the people at Anet play the game like the rest of us and im sure Bots annoy the hell out of them too.

But it doesnt matter what mechanics of the game you change, people will always create and use bots. Regardless of how high or low the drop rates are.

Anet do everything they can to stop it. Your idea wouldnt just effect bot users, it would have nock-on effects for casual players too.

Anet cant impliment ideas and systems to stop bots, if its going to effect casual players. That will anger them, and discourage them from playing.

There is no simple solution to removing bots, and I would love to see your degree in video game programming, and for you to then go sit in Anets offices and wip up a solution in 10 minutes flat!

It takes time, money and effort to make such huge changes to the game, and Anet needs to justify doing it when it can take time away from bug fixes, and other projects involving GWs.

To make a change that would involve the entire game would require a dedicated programming team, and to take them away from other things.

As annoying as bots are, they arent a priority, unlike errors, bugs and new compaigns.

JeniM · May 22, 2007, 10:23 AM // 10:23

Only easy solution to bots : Stop trials
Most bot users would likly not want to have to pay for an account if it will get banned

pipedream · May 22, 2007, 11:16 AM // 11:16

Some of you give these Botters too much credit. Yes maybe some use the high tech methods you have described but I believe most are using a very low tech macro recorder/player that relies on the consistency that originated this post.

If you have ever looked on ebay at the GW things people sell (besides gold), you come across people selling a package of game exploits, hacks and bots for about $4. I have purchase a few of these to check out what they are distributing. Every bots system I have come across is a macro player/recorder. Its as simple as recording your movements from the time you leave a zone until you return. Then you just loop it forever.

A few minor game changes is all I am suggesting. The windows that I am talking about being random only need to be moving about a 1/2 - 1 inch or so. The macro bots need everything to be in the place you left it. If a button moves randomly an inch to the left, right, up or down. When the macro is playing its going to miss that button thus throwing the entire macro out of sequence.

For the one person who said it would bother them not to zone in the same spot all the time... why? (if it bother you, your probably doing something your shouldn't be doing) 75% of the towns in the game have random (multiple) spawn areas. My guild hall has 3 potential zone locations. Its the towns that only have one that you will ever find bots in. Some guild halls one have one. These Halls with one spawn are also bot friendly. A guild hall can play a big roll in a bot as well.

In short, every town, outpost and hall should have a minimum of 3 spawn locations and the macro bots will have a hard time operating. The enter mission button is the next constant. Lots of bots farm mission areas because you enter a mission using a button (in Prophecies). Thats a whole other issue.

pipedream · May 22, 2007, 11:22 AM // 11:22

BTW is did not call anyone Ignorant, I said they can't be ignorant to the way the bots operate. Research the deff of ignorant if your still confused.

In case you haven't noticed, the GW economy is in shambles. A team of programmers is needed to fix the problem.

freekedoutfish · May 22, 2007, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by pipedream

BTW is did not call anyone Ignorant, I said they can't be ignorant to the way the bots operate. Research the deff of ignorant if your still confused.

In case you haven't noticed, the GW economy is in shambles. A team of programmers is needed to fix the problem.

Do you really think magically, removing all bot activity within GWs will stabalise the economy? People will always find an easier way to make gold in large amount.

The economy will always be a shambles, because we will always have the oober rich, the oober poor and the people who cant be arsed to try and make gold and just winge instead.

Unless you know some way to equalise that rift between rich and poor, you wont solve the economy issue.

Removing bots completely (which will never happen) will just incourage people to use different methods. Im not suggesting we dont do anything about them, but dont think that bots are the only cause for the economy being the way it is.

JeniM · May 22, 2007, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by pipedream

Some of you give these Botters too much credit. Yes maybe some use the high tech methods you have described but I believe most are using a very low tech macro recorder/player that relies on the consistency that originated this post.

If you have ever looked on ebay at the GW things people sell (besides gold), you come across people selling a package of game exploits, hacks and bots for about $4. I have purchase a few of these to check out what they are distributing. Every bots system I have come across is a macro player/recorder. Its as simple as recording your movements from the time you leave a zone until you return. Then you just loop it forever.

A few minor game changes is all I am suggesting. The windows that I am talking about being random only need to be moving about a 1/2 - 1 inch or so. The macro bots need everything to be in the place you left it. If a button moves randomly an inch to the left, right, up or down. When the macro is playing its going to miss that button thus throwing the entire macro out of sequence.

For the one person who said it would bother them not to zone in the same spot all the time... why? (if it bother you, your probably doing something your shouldn't be doing) 75% of the towns in the game have random (multiple) spawn areas. My guild hall has 3 potential zone locations. Its the towns that only have one that you will ever find bots in. Some guild halls one have one. These Halls with one spawn are also bot friendly. A guild hall can play a big roll in a bot as well.

In short, every town, outpost and hall should have a minimum of 3 spawn locations and the macro bots will have a hard time operating. The enter mission button is the next constant. Lots of bots farm mission areas because you enter a mission using a button (in Prophecies). Thats a whole other issue.

Even moving 1/2 and inch would really make people like me uncomfortable.
Some people love surprise some need constants.
Constants on my desk eg my clock would piss me off even being an inch form where i know it should be. - You don't think like that so you can't understand it

And as for acusing me of using a bot!! Thread hijacking and turning this into a riot is the only thing stopping me from expressing how i feel about that.
You don't have the same problem with not having things where you left them but i do and i'm 99% sure i'm not the only one

Mr D J · May 22, 2007, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Wait... I don't get your idea... So you are saying that when you zone from bergen you end up in ascalon? Umm...? And randomizing golds won't work either.. you'll never see an Ice Golem drop a gold Dead Bow.

EDIT Never mind I see what you mean by random location now... but that will really suck for everyone... not just bots. Imagine it glitching and spawning 3-4 groups in 1 place?

EternalTempest · May 22, 2007, 03:33 PM // 15:33

hmm

Not sure how effective this would be. There set spawn points but with mobs following patrol paths, occasionally fighting each other, it's tends to mix up where a mob group is at any given time.

flyinhigh · May 22, 2007, 04:18 PM // 16:18

you realize that even if a human does the exact same thing over and over there is a variable, say ~.5 seconds, of error between clicking things, you can program that in, also pixel search and image search makes spawning anywhere in a outpost, and where your window shows up completely irrelevent. it matches the color/text of say merchent, does a pixel search on its open merch window to not sell golds, image searches for the phrase "storage agent", goes there, opens inventory, drops off, pixel searches for sign out of town, and runs to it, takes a few steps left/right, forward,

your solution, merely makes the bot runners put a little more into their bots, and makes a huge inconvenience factor for everyone else.