Curse

[M]agna_[C]arta · May 28, 2007, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Nerfing Guide^^!
-I find some of your ideas are Overpowered and Underpowered.

Quote:

Boulder, Spell
10 energy, 2s casting time 8s recharge
Send out a large Boulder that rolls along the ground. Target foe and any foes in the Boulder's path are struck for 8...60...80 earth damage.

I think this is Underpowered, Try this.

Try adding knock down but if you add this increase recharge time to 15 seconds^^.

Quote:

Gift of the Titans, Enchantment Spell.
15 energy / 3s casting time / 30s recharge
For 5...27...30 seconds, you are enchanted with Gift of the Titans.
You cannot be set on fire, and any foe striking you in melee combat, and all adjacent foes, take 5...29...35 fire damage and are set on fire for 1...3...4 seconds.

I think this is Overpowered, Try this.
BTW I changed the name for shortcuts.

Titan's Gift
-Enchantment Spell, 15e|2c|25r : For 5-15 seconds, You are enchanted with Titan's Gift. You are immune to Fire Damage and Burning, and Whenever a Foe strikes you that foe and Adjacent foes to you are Knocked Down for 1-3 seconds and suffers burning for 1-3(5) seconds.

-This gives you more time to Escape.
-This gives you more Defence.
-This enables yo to harm foes even if they are not adjacent.

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Stormchild, Elite Enchantment Spell
25 energy /5s casting time / 30s recharge time / -2 energy reg upkeep
While you are enchanted with Stormchild, you deal 20...160...200 lightning
damage once every 2 seconds to a random foe within earshot.
Stormchild ends if you move, are knocked down, or use a non-Spell skill.
When Stormchild ends, it is disabled for 120 seconds, and all your other
skills are disabled for 3...1...1 seconds for every second it was active.
50% chance of failure with Air Magic 8 or more.

I think this is Overpowered. Try this.

Stormchild[Elite]
-Enchantment Spell, 25e|3c|60r : For 5 seconds, While you are enchanted with Storm Child, You deal 20-125(175) Lighting Damage once every second to a Random Adjacent Foe(Same foe can't be struck again). Stormchild ends when you move. This spell causes exhaustion.

-This won't give you 50% chance to work.
-A more Brief Description.
-And your skills won't be disabled.

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Fevered Frenzy, Hex Spell
10 energy / 2s casting time / 20s recharge time
For 5...10...12 seconds target foe and all nearby foes are hexed with Fevered Frenzy. They attack 25% faster, but take 50% more damage from all sources.

I think this is Overpowered, Try this.

Fevered Frenzy
-Hex Spell, 10e|2c|20r : For 5-10(12) seconds Target Foe and Nearby Foes are hexed with Fevered Frenzy. They gain 15% more Adrenaline and they Attack 25% Faster. But take 33% more damage from all sources.

-Imagine Heavy Damage Spell + 50% more Damage = Swipe of a whole Party, I think that's too much^^.
-You may take away the Adrenaline Part just like to add^^!

Quote:

Avatar of Kormir, Elite Form Spell
15 energy / 2s cast time / 30s recharge time
For 10...62...75 seconds you cannot use attack skills, your attacks are ranged and whenever you use a skill all other party members within earshot gain 5...20...25 health and 0...2...3 energy.
This skill is disabled for 120 seconds.

I think this is Overpowered, try this.

Avatar of Kormir
-Form, 15e|3c|30r : For 10-35 seconds, You cannot use Attack Skills. Whenever you use a skill all other Party Members within earshot gains +5-20(25) Health and +0-1(2) Energy. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds.

-Try nerfing it cause you may just get some spamming skills and your party may have unlimited supply of energy or even health.
-And the lasting time is too long.

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Whirlwind Sweep, Scythe Attack
10 energy / 15s recharge time
Lose one enchantment and strike all adjacent foes for +5...12...15 damage.
If you lost an Enchantment this way, any foe struck will also be knocked down for 2 seconds.

I think this is Underpowered, Try this.

Whirlwind Sweep
-Scythe Attack, 10e|15r : Lose all enchantments and strike all adjacent foes for +15-31(37). If you lose an enchantment this way, Foes struck by this skill are knockdown for 1-2(2) second/s.

Kale Ironfist · May 28, 2007, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClanYumemiru

Hmm ... how about if the damage dropped to 8...55...70, only dealing damage to target foe, keeping the conditional KD to foe & adjacent ?

Considering the energy cost, it looks like a cheaper alternative to Earthquake/Dragon's Stomp. Looks good.

Quote:

You mean something like this:

Boulder, Spell
10 energy 2s cast time, 15s recharge
Launch a Boulder at target foe. Target foe is struck for 10...72...90 earth damage, and all foes adjacent to the target are struck for 5...40...50 earth damage.

Looks good as an Earth variant of Meteor.

Quote:

Sliver Armor triggers on more conditions - spells, ranged attacks, melee attacks.
However, you are right in that it still looks rather formidable.

Gift of the Titans, Enchantment Spell
15 energy, 2s cast time, 20s recharge
For 5...12...15 seconds you are enchanted with Gift of the Titans and cannot be set on fire.
Every foe striking you in melee combat is set on fire for 1...3...4 seconds.

Considering the cost and the fact that its a gift, you might be able to extend it to all foes who attack you. I'd say reduce the duration at 15 Fire Magic to 3.

Quote:

It's also an intensely weak skill for all its strength.
It's long activation time, its Enchantment status and dismissal conditions, and what happens AFTER it gets ended, create a tradeoff. How long are you willing to maintain it, and can you deal with its aftereffects.
Yes, it is a FORMIDABLE weapon, however, with a number of fatal flaws.

It is because of the fact that its a formidable weapon with fatal flaws that leave it unbalanced or useless. Reduce the cast time to 3, remove the upkeep, increase to 4 seconds per trigger and reduce damage by about a third (maybe 120 at 15?), remove the ends if you move/get knockdowned, disable for 60 seconds, remove the air<8 50% failure, lastly give it a duration, say 5-20 seconds (again 0-15 attribute)?

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Av of Kormir - I don't know. Lots of things deemed impossible have happened over the past 20-22 months I've been playing.

When there are bugs in place with skills like Conflagration affecting all projectiles instead of just arrows (flaming spears anyone?), I don't think this will ever work under the current engine.

Quote:

Whirlwind Sweep, Scythe Attack:
10 energy, 15s recharge
Lose an enchantment. Strike all adjacent foes for +5...12...15 damage, and if you lost an enchantment this way, any foes that were attacking are knocked down.

That better ?

Looks good, from there the recharge need to be adjusted for it to be worth bringing over a skill like Whirlwind/Teinai's Wind (maybe 12?)

Quote:

Wrathful was Janthir, Item Spell
25 energy 3s cast time 30s recharge time
Hold Janthir's Ashes for 5...24...30 seconds, while you hold his ashes, you walk 20% slower.
Once every 4 seconds all foes within earshot that are activating skills or attacking are knocked down, and you lose 10...5...4 energy for each foe affected.
If you reach 0 energy, you automatically drop Ashes of Janthir.

Either lower the initial cost to 15 or reduce the payment cost to something like 8-3 energy (0-15 attribute). This is because a Rit holding this has a much lower energy pool than others, and would likely only have at most 15 energy after casting this (and that's with radiant insignia).

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Spirit Storm
15 energy, 3s cast time, 45s recharge
Destroy all allied spirits within earshot.
Target foe and all nearby foes take 20...45...50 lightning damage (maximum 180) for each spirit destroyed and are Weakened for 3...8...10 seconds.

Looks good.

Quote:

Not meant to be a projectile.

Thunderbolt, Spell
10 energy, 1s cast time, 8s recharge.
Inflict 7...62...70 lightning damage on target foe. Damage from Thunderbolt has 25% armor penetration.

Still basically a filler spell, but it's got the right cost.

Quote:

I'm afraid THAT applies to more skills

Hmm.

Stoneglass Shard, Spell
5 energy, 1s cast time, 8s recharge
Send out a Stoneglass Shard that deals 7...25...30 earth damage to target foe and inflicts Bleeding on target and all adjacent foes for 3...6...8 seconds if it hits.

With a recharge like that, maybe extend it to nearby foes? Or would that add too much pressure? The damage is low enough that it would be worth it... I'll get back to you on this one.

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DOH! of course. (Talk about one colossal brainfart) OK, that one gets scrapped, PRONTO!

"For Great Justice!"

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Increase cost to 15, affect only target, keep half range ?

I'd say keep the cost/recharge as is, but change it so that it affects one foe, add the clause 'if they are knocked down, they are dazed', keep earshot range. Now it's an elite version of Awe. Keep the clause that if they were casting a spell, they're interrupted. Possibly add daze with the interruption.

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10 seconds in combat can be LONG - additionally, the party-wide buff it affords can really skew balance towards affected party.

The only real thing it adds is the energy regeneration/degeneration by the party/opposing party. The Health regeneration/degeneration doesn't do much. I'd say remove the health thing, and raise the duration to 15 seconds at 15 command. Maybe lower recharge, but that would encourage Paraway.

Quote:

"Incoming" last only 1...3 seconds IIRC; what about make it last 1...9...10 seconds for 5...8...10 health per second ?

I'd say have it work similar to Avatar of Dwayna. For 20 seconds, whenever a party member within earshot uses a skill, they are healed for 30-?? health. From there, depending on the numbers for 15 command, UP the recharge.

Quote:

Correct. I couldn't figure out anything else for this one and ended up with this.
Hmm..

Melandru's Call, Elite Shout
10 energy, 30s recharge
The next 1...4...5 projectile attacks made by each party member move 100% faster and inflict +2...6....7 damage

I think it's better to make it simpler and have it at 'For 10 seconds, all projectile attacks made by party members move twice as fast.' Now it's quite a potent skill in Ranger and Paragon spikes.

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Grenth's Call, Elite Echo.
10 energy, 30s recharge time
For 5...12...15 seconds, whenever a Shout or Chant ends on target ally, all adjacent foes are struck for 8...30...35 cold damage

Looks good.

Quote:

Hm. Interesting idea, hadn't thought of that.

Tombstone, Binding Ritual.
15 energy, 3s cast time 60s recharge
Summon a level 1...6...7 Tombstone.
All undead minions within its range receive +5...16...20 armor
Resurection skills take twice as long to activate within earshot of Tombstone.
When Tombstone is destroyed, all undead minions within earshot of it are destroyed, and all corpses exploited.
Tombstone dies after 30...110...120 seconds.

I'd say reduce the recharge and duration. Possibly R=45 seconds and duration of about 90 seconds at 15 attribute. Remove the corpse exploitation clause.

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Animate Hulking Horror:
25 energy, 3s cast time 30s recharge
Exploit the nearest corpse and animate a level 1...17...21 Hulking Horror.
Hulking Horror moves 25% slower.
Any moving foe struck by its attacks is knocked down.
You may not have more than 1...3...3 Hulking Horrors at any one time.

I'd say lower the energy cost to 15, lower the level to that of a Bone Horror/Fiend/Vampiric Horror, reduce the penalty to 15% and remove the limit on them. Even with "Charge!" or "Fall Back!", the lower level and high recharge prevents you from getting too many to chain knockdown. Also, it makes it easier to kill.

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And yes, Titan Horror is strong, but you get 3 Bone Horrors by another name for it in return - which may not be what you need at that time ... additionally, its 25 energy cast cost and 45s recharge makes it compare unfavorably against Flesh Golem (10/3/30), which leaves an exploitable corpse and can be reraised easily.

So it's a Flesh Golem in disguise? RUN FOR THE HILLS! On a more serious note, looks fine as is.

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Small correction: it takes 9 seconds (drop meteors at 3s, 6s and 9s after cast), and the default recharge is 60 seconds.
(You are right though)

Yeah, brainfart on my part . Too many numbers in my head when I was writing the post that I used the wrong ones

.

Quote:

I hope I've adressed your points adequately - thank you for your reply!

Let's see what you've got to say with my latest additions.

ClanYumemiru · May 29, 2007, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Kale Ironfist,

Rather than do an ultra long point/counterpoint post again, (BTW, another excellent post, keep it up!) I thought it would be smarter to entirely relist all my skills in this thread so far, folding in your comments/suggestions with each.
Skills with Bold titles have been changed/revised/corrected.
Skills in italic are scrapped.

ELEMENTALIST:

Stoneglass Shard, Spell
5 energy, 1s cast time, 8s recharge
Send out a Stoneglass Shard that deals 7...25...30 earth damage to target foe and inflicts Bleeding on target and all nearby foes for 3...6...8 seconds if it hits.
(Attribute: Earth Magic)

(increased Bleeding radius to Nearby)

Tremor, Spell
10 energy, 2s cast time, 10s recharge
Target foe is struck for 7...55...70 earth damage. If the target or any adjacent foes were moving, they are knocked down.
(Attribute: Earth Magic)

Boulder, Spell
10 energy 2s cast time, 15s recharge
Launch a Boulder at target foe. Target foe is struck for 10...72...90 earth damage, and all foes adjacent to the target are struck for 5...40...50 earth damage.
(Attribute: Earth Magic)

Gift of the Titans, Enchantment Spell
15 energy, 2s cast time, 20s recharge
For 5...12...15 seconds you cannot be set on fire, and every foe attacking you in melee combat is set on fire for 1...3...3 seconds.
(Attribute: Fire Magic)

(Decreased Burning duration at 15 attribute, cleaned up wording)

Stormchild, Elite Enchantment Spell
25 energy, 3s cast time, 30s recharge, -1 energy reg upkeep
While you are enchanted with Stormchild, all your Air Spells gain +15% armor penetration, but they cost +10...4...3 energy to cast.
(Attribute: Air Magic)

(Completely changed functioning)

Thunderbolt, Spell
10 energy, 1s cast time, 8s recharge.
Inflict 7...62...70 lightning damage on target foe. Damage from Thunderbolt has 25% armor penetration.
(Attribute: Air Magic)

Ice Storm - scrapped, not viable for rebalancing/rewriting. (BTW, your FGJ comment was a blast - good one!)

DERVISH:

Avatar of Kormir - scrapped, no viable implementation in sight.

Whirlwind Sweep, Scythe Attack
10 energy, 12s recharge
Lose an enchantment. Strike all adjacent foes for +5...12...15 damage, and if you lost an enchantment this way, any foes struck by this attack that were attacking are knocked down.

(Decreased recharge, clarified that the KD only happens to those attacking foes you strike with Whirlwind Sweep - to compare, Whirlwind/Teinai's Wind has an 8s recharge, same cost, and a 3/4 second cast time)

RITUALIST:

Wrathful was Janthir, Item Spell
15 energy, 4s cast time 30s recharge time
Hold Janthir's Ashes for 5...24...30 seconds, while you hold his ashes, you walk 20% slower.
Once every 4 seconds all foes within earshot that are activating skills or attacking are knocked down, and you lose 9...4...3 energy for each foe affected.
If you reach 0 energy, you automatically drop Ashes of Janthir.
(Attribute: Channeling Magic)

(Reduced casting cost, increased casting time; slightly reduced usage cost; remember the energy loss is per foe affected - this can really clean you out in one or two blasts in a busy fight)

Spirit Storm, Spell
15 energy, 3s cast time, 45s recharge
Destroy all allied spirits within earshot.
Target foe and all nearby foes take 20...45...50 lightning damage (maximum 180) for each spirit destroyed and are Weakened for 3...8...10 seconds.
(Attribute: Channeling Magic)

PARAGON:

Voice of Balthazar, Elite Skill
15 energy, 60s recharge
For 30 seconds, your next 1...4...5 Shout, Chant or Echo skils you use affect not only their target but all legal adjacent targets as well.
(Attribute: Command)

(Complete revamp)

Lyric of Lyssa, Elite Shout
15 energy, 60s recharge
for 5...12...15 seconds, all allies within earshot have +1 energy regeneration, and all foes within earshot have -1 energy regeneration.
(Attribute: Motivation)

(Moved to Motivation, removed health regen/degen effect, extended duration)

Song of Dwayna, Elite Chant
10 energy, 2s cast time, 30s recharge
For 20 seconds, whenever any party member uses a skill, that party member also gains 10...30...35 health.
(Attribute: Motivation)

(Moved to Motivation, redid effect)

Call of Melandru, Elite Shout
10 energy, 30s recharge
For 15 seconds, all projectiles fired by party members move 50% faster and cannot be blocked.
(Attribute: Command)

(Redid effect)

Grenth's Call, Elite Echo
10 energy, 30s recharge time
For 5...12...15 seconds, whenever a Shout or Chant ends on target ally, all adjacent foes are struck for 8...30...35 cold damage
(Attribute: Command)

Call to the Abyss, Elite Chant
15 energy, 3s cast time, 10s recharge
Summon a level 6...24...28 random Torment Demon which joins your party as an Ally. It turns hostile on your party after 10...25...30 seconds. Your party does not gain experience or loot from slaying this monster.

NECROMANCER:

Tombstone, Binding Ritual
15 energy, 3s cast time, 30s recharge
Create a level 1...6...7 Tombstone.
All undead minions within its range receive +5...16...20 armor.
Resurrection skills take twice as long to activate within earshot of Tombstone.
When Tombstone is destroyed, all undead minions within earshot of it are destroyed.
Tombstone expires after 15...35...45 seconds.
(Attribute: Death Magic)

(Reduced recharge and duration, tweaked effect)

Animate Hulking Horror, Spell
15 energy, 3s cast time 30s recharge
Exploit the nearest corpse and animate a level 1...15...19 Hulking Horror.
Hulking Horror moves 10% slower.
Any moving foe struck by its attacks is knocked down.
(Attribute: Death Magic)

(Decreased cost, decreased level, decreased movement speed penalty, removed count limit)

Animate Titan Horror, Elite Spell
25 energy, 3s cast time, 45s recharge
Exploit nearest corpse to create a level 3...21...25 Titan Horror.
When Titan Horror dies, it is replaced by 1...3...3 level 0...13...17 Tormented Horrors.
You may only have one Titan Horror at any one time.
(Attribute: Death Magic)

(Made clear you can only have one at any time - same rules as Flesh Golem; recast when its active and the Titan Horror keels over and you DON'T get the additional minions, just like you don't get an exploitable corpse when you recast the Golem)

Soul Harvesting, Enchantment Spell
10 energy, 1s cast time, 10s recharge.
For 60 seconds, whenever any non-spirit creature dies within earshot, you gain 0...3...4 energy.
(Attribute: Soul Reaping)

MESMER:

Skill Twisting, Spell
10 energy / 1s cast time / 12s recharge time
Target foe takes 2...6...7 damage for each point energy cost of the highest cost skill that foe has equipped, but gains 1...4...5 life for each point energy cost of the lowest cost skill equipped.
(Attribute: Illusion Magic)

Ghostly Illusion, Elite Spell
25 energy, 4s cast time, 60s recharge time
Create a Ghostly Illusion of target foe for 10...25...30 seconds, which joins your party as an Ally.
Ghostly Illusion has the same level and skills as the foe copied.
When Ghostly Illusion dies or is destroyed, you lose 40...12...10% maximum health.
(Attribute: Illusion Magic)

(Changed triggered effect on Ghostly Illusion's death from energy loss to health loss)

Fevered Frenzy, Hex Spell
15 energy / 2s casting time / 20s recharge time
For 5...10...12 seconds target foe and all nearby foes are hexed with Fevered Frenzy. They attack 25% faster, but take 50% more damage from all sources.
(Attribute: Illusion Magic)

(Raised energy cost to 15, moved from Domination to Illusion Magic)

Whew! That's all of them I think.
EDIT: Forgot a few skills, fixed spelling/wording as required.

Lord Oranos · May 29, 2007, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Whirlwind Sweep, Elite Scythe Attack
5 energy, 12s recharge
Lose an enchantment. Strike foe for +5...12...15 damage, and if you lost an enchantment this way, any foes struck by this attack are knocked down.

Honestly, Id never use it with the attacking foes bit.... makes it useless when trying to kill smart casters.

ClanYumemiru · May 29, 2007, 09:56 AM // 09:56

More to discuss/tweak:

ASSASSIN:

Bonesnap Kick, Skill
10 energy, 15s recharge
This skill must follow a Lead Attack, and counts as an Off-Hand Attack.
Target adjacent foe takes 5...41...50 damage and is Crippled for 3...8...10 seconds.
(Attribute: Deadly Arts)

Twin Fury Kick, Skill
10 energy, 12s recharge
This skill must follow an Off-Hand Attack, and counts as a Dual Attack.
Target adjacent foe and another adjacent foe each take 10...50...70 damage.
(Attribute: Deadly Arts)

Just two quickies that poppd in my brains ...

ClanYumemiru · May 29, 2007, 10:06 AM // 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Oranos

Whirlwind Sweep, Elite Scythe Attack
5 energy, 12s recharge
Lose an enchantment. Strike foe for +5...12...15 damage, and if you lost an enchantment this way, any foes struck by this attack are knocked down.

Honestly, Id never use it with the attacking foes bit.... makes it useless when trying to kill smart casters.

Ah. But that's not what Whirlwind Sweep was intended to do.
It's intended to "clear" you (at least temporarily) from an overwhelming melee dogpile to save your backside

Hunting casters eh ?

Savage Sweep, Scythe Attack
5 energy, 12s recharge
When this attack hits, you strike target foe for +5...17...20 damage.
If target foe was casting a spell, you inflict an additional +10...23...30 damage, and the target is interrupted.
(Attribute: Scythe Mastery)

How's that sound ?

Stranger The Ranger · May 29, 2007, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Step of the Ox [E] c:1/4 e:10 r:20
Elite Spell. Shadowstep to target foe, if that foe isn’t adjacent to any allies, that foe is knocked down. All your spells are disabled for 15…5 Seconds (Attribute: Deadly Arts)

Kale Ironfist · May 29, 2007, 10:19 AM // 10:19

Stormchild: Guild Wars' current engine can't give armor penetration externally (take a look at Destructive Was Glaive, it gives -6 armor instead of 10% AP). Because of that, the increased costs don't seem that worth it, having such a high cost, upkeep, increased costs on your air spells for likely a drop of 9 armor against the target.

Wrathful Was Janthir: I think it was fine at 3 second cast.

Voice of Balthazar: I just checked GuildWiki, and no chant only affects one target. Of the skills left, those most likely to have an impact are:
"Brace Yourself!"
"Find Their Weakness!"
"Lead the Way!"
"Make Haste!"
Bladeturn Refrain
Blazing Finale
Burning Refrain
Energizing Finale
Purifying Finale

However, if you made a gimmick build which involves getting another elite, you could potentially use it with:
"Coward!"
"It's just a flesh wound."
"Victory is Mine!"

Which means at this point it's unlikely to be used by anyone.

Call of Melandru: Raise its cost. A LOT. If you don't know why, take a look at this skill [skill]Anthem of Guidance[/skill].

Tombstone: I think the minion destruction should still be within range of the spirit and not earshot. And people would likely not care because of the double resurrection activation time clause.

Animate Titan Horror: Unfortunately I don't think re-raising it wouldn't trigger the Tormented horrors spawning. After all, the Titan Horror has died and would trigger the coding.

Soul Harvesting: The whole point of the Soul Reaping nerf was to reduce the effects that this skill would have. While the energy gain is low, and the range smaller than normal Soul Reaping, it's still in addition to Soul Reaping, so I'm not too sure about how overpowered it is. Likely the maximum energy would be 3 at 15 SR if its ever implemented.

Skill Twisting: Although the net damage won't likely be that high (maximum for a 25 energy skill combined with signet is 175, likely damage is between 70 and 105), the wording of the skill suggests that it could technically kill someone even with the low damage on it, because it causes health gain AFTER the damage. I'd say change it so that it causes reduced damage instead of health gain. The problem now is that you still have Mesmer spike all over again.

Ghostly Illusion: I don't like the looks of that skill... it's quite powerful considering you're adding another party member for ~30 seconds at the cost of an elite slot (and the foe likely has a decent or great elite on them anyway). Way too good as used on the right foe, it adds a lot of pressure.

Fevered Frenzy: Still nearby? There's a reason why I advised a drop in range.

ClanYumemiru · May 29, 2007, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stranger The Ranger

Step of the Ox [E] c:1/4 e:10 r:20
Elite Spell. Shadowstep to target foe, if that foe isn’t adjacent to any allies, that foe is knocked down. All your spells are disabled for 15…5 Seconds (Attribute: Deadly Arts)

Interesting, but I'd rather word it like this:

Charge of the Ox, Elite Spell
15 energy, 1/2s cast time, 30s recharge
Shadow step to target foe. If target is not adjacent to any other foes, target is knocked down.
This spell has half range.
(Attribute: Shadow Arts)

Eroth · May 29, 2007, 10:43 AM // 10:43

How bout these?

Warrior's Morale
5 energy, 1/2s cast, 10 sec recharge
Skill. For every point of damage you have lost, you gain 30%..45%..70% of that health back. (tactics)

Gyn's Powder
20 energy, 5 cast, 60 sec recharge
Nature Spirit. For 20..30..50 seconds the spirit of Gyn's Powder causes any weapon attack to cause an explosion that does 4...7...12 damge. (Wild Survival)

Spirit's Thrust {E}
10 energy, 20 sec recharge
Skill. Touched target foe takes 20...40..80 damage and 10...30...70 for each Weapon Spell in your skill bar (maximum +210). (channeling)

I'll think of some more since I gtg to school atm.

ClanYumemiru · May 29, 2007, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kale Ironfist

Stormchild: Guild Wars' current engine can't give armor penetration externally (take a look at Destructive Was Glaive, it gives -6 armor instead of 10% AP). Because of that, the increased costs don't seem that worth it, having such a high cost, upkeep, increased costs on your air spells for likely a drop of 9 armor against the target.

OK, I was unaware of that. Consider it scrapped

Quote:

Voice of Balthazar: I just checked GuildWiki, and no chant only affects one target. Of the skills left, those most likely to have an impact are:
"Brace Yourself!"
"Find Their Weakness!"
"Lead the Way!"
"Make Haste!"
Bladeturn Refrain
Blazing Finale
Burning Refrain
Energizing Finale
Purifying Finale

However, if you made a gimmick build which involves getting another elite, you could potentially use it with:
"Coward!"
"It's just a flesh wound."
"Victory is Mine!"

Which means at this point it's unlikely to be used by anyone.

Hm.

Voice of Balthazar, Elite Skill
15 energy, 60s recharge
For 30 seconds, all your Shout, Chant or Echo skills last 5...15...20% longer
(Attribute: Command)

Quote:

Call of Melandru: Raise its cost. A LOT. If you don't know why, take a look at this skill [skill]Anthem of Guidance[/skill].

Point taken.

Call of Melandru, Elite Shout
10 energy, 30s recharge
For 15 seconds, all projectile attacks from party members move 100% faster.
(Attribute: Command)

(This also excludes spell projectiles by more properly wording the skill, I just realized)

Quote:

Tombstone: I think the minion destruction should still be within range of the spirit and not earshot. And people would likely not care because of the double resurrection activation time clause.

Hence shortening both effects to Earshot - allowing users to reap its benefits by managing their position, but keeping the element of caution.
The problem with minion death in spirit range is that is then becomes viable to use in PvP/AB to quickly take out opposing minion hordes; possibly the only change to make would be to drop the effect on res skills - hmm ...

Tombstone, Binding Ritual
15 energy, 3s cast time, 30s recharge
Create a level 1...6...7 Tombstone.
All undead minions within its range receive +5...16...20 armor.
When Tombstone is destroyed, all allied undead minions within range are destroyed.
Tombstone expires after 15...35...45 seconds.
(Attribute: Death Magic)

Quote:

Animate Titan Horror: Unfortunately I don't think re-raising it wouldn't trigger the Tormented horrors spawning. After all, the Titan Horror has died and would trigger the coding.

But when a Flesh Golem is reraised it also automagically exploits the corpse ... what about that then ??

Quote:

Soul Harvesting: The whole point of the Soul Reaping nerf was to reduce the effects that this skill would have. While the energy gain is low, and the range smaller than normal Soul Reaping, it's still in addition to Soul Reaping, so I'm not too sure about how overpowered it is. Likely the maximum energy would be 3 at 15 SR if its ever implemented.

Soul Harvesting, Enchantment Spell
10 energy, 1s cast time, 10s recharge.
For 60 seconds, whenever any non-spirit creature dies within earshot, you gain 0...2...3 energy.
(Attribute: Soul Reaping)

(This pending the final word on SR's own effect BTW - once there's a decision there I'll have another look at this one; the proposal is based on SR's efect as-is now)

Quote:

Skill Twisting: Although the net damage won't likely be that high (maximum for a 25 energy skill combined with signet is 175, likely damage is between 70 and 105), the wording of the skill suggests that it could technically kill someone even with the low damage on it, because it causes health gain AFTER the damage. I'd say change it so that it causes reduced damage instead of health gain. The problem now is that you still have Mesmer spike all over again.

What about reversing the order of effects:

Skill Twisting, Spell
15 energy / 2s cast time / 12s recharge time
Target foe gains 1...4...5 life for each point energy cost of the lowest cost non-signet skill equipped, but loses 2...6...7 life for each point energy cost of the highest cost skill that foe has equipped,.
(Attribute: Illusion Magic)

Quote:

Ghostly Illusion: I don't like the looks of that skill... it's quite powerful considering you're adding another party member for ~30 seconds at the cost of an elite slot (and the foe likely has a decent or great elite on them anyway). Way too good as used on the right foe, it adds a lot of pressure.

Ghostly Illusion, Elite Spell
25 energy, 4s cast time, 60s recharge time
Create a level 6...20...24 Ghostly Illusion of target non-boss enemy for 10...25...30 seconds, which joins your party as an Ally.
Ghostly Illusion has the same skills as the foe copied.
When Ghostly Illusion ends or is destroyed, you lose 40...12...10% maximum health.
(Attribute: Illusion Magic)

Quote:

Fevered Frenzy: Still nearby? There's a reason why I advised a drop in range.

It's moved it over to Illusion Magic to separate it from convenient Domination spike -- but still too much ?

ClanYumemiru · May 29, 2007, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eroth

How bout these?

Warrior's Morale
5 energy, 1/2s cast, 10 sec recharge
Skill. For every point of damage you have lost, you gain 30%..45%..70% of that health back. (tactics)

Too effective. Compare [skill]Lion's Comfort[/skill] and/or [skill]Healing Signet[/skill]

Quote:

Gyn's Powder
20 energy, 5 cast, 60 sec recharge
Nature Spirit. For 20..30..50 seconds the spirit of Gyn's Powder causes any weapon attack to cause an explosion that does 4...7...12 damge. (Wild Survival)

[skill]Ignite Arrows[/skill] does the same and this would be compatible with Barrage - which would be utterly devastating.

Quote:

Spirit's Thrust {E}
10 energy, 20 sec recharge
Skill. Touched target foe takes 20...40..80 damage and 10...30...70 for each Weapon Spell in your skill bar (maximum +210). (channeling)

I'll think of some more since I gtg to school atm.

Youch. That's one hell of a murder spike. It would require just 2 Weapon spells in the bar at 15 Channeling Magic to max it out - and that's not really a stretch or a sacrifice to do.

For fun, compare with [skill]Star Burst[/skill]

Kale Ironfist · May 29, 2007, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClanYumemiru

Hm.

Voice of Balthazar, Elite Skill
15 energy, 60s recharge
For 30 seconds, all your Shout, Chant or Echo skills last 5...15...20% longer
(Attribute: Command)

An elite version of Vocal was Sogolon that doesn't require your hands... not too sure of the viability of that kind of skill. At least you don't have to be a Rit secondary...

Quote:

Point taken.

Call of Melandru, Elite Shout
10 energy, 30s recharge
For 15 seconds, all projectile attacks from party members move 100% faster.
(Attribute: Command)

(This also excludes spell projectiles by more properly wording the skill, I just realized)

You thought my 10 second version was underpowered?

Quote:

Hence shortening both effects to Earshot - allowing users to reap its benefits by managing their position, but keeping the element of caution.
The problem with minion death in spirit range is that is then becomes viable to use in PvP/AB to quickly take out opposing minion hordes; possibly the only change to make would be to drop the effect on res skills - hmm ...

Tombstone, Binding Ritual
15 energy, 3s cast time, 30s recharge
Create a level 1...6...7 Tombstone.
All undead minions within its range receive +5...16...20 armor.
When Tombstone is destroyed, all allied undead minions within range are destroyed.
Tombstone expires after 15...35...45 seconds.
(Attribute: Death Magic)

Instead of destroying all, possibly 1 or 2 for every second it was alive? That way, opposing minion parties can exist, and creating it for the express purpose of destroying minions requires that it lasts a while.

Quote:

But when a Flesh Golem is reraised it also automagically exploits the corpse ... what about that then ??

The skill description doesn't support that, so it's likely a bug to prevent more than one existing. Or to punish you for using the skill again before it's dead.

Quote:

What about reversing the order of effects:

Skill Twisting, Spell
15 energy / 2s cast time / 12s recharge time
Target foe gains 1...4...5 life for each point energy cost of the lowest cost non-signet skill equipped, but loses 2...6...7 life for each point energy cost of the highest cost skill that foe has equipped,.
(Attribute: Illusion Magic)

Even more unbalanced, as you can't prevent the health loss (a la vampiric), but it now costs more and takes longer to cast. I'd say just keep it as damage instead of health loss and it's fine.

Quote:

Ghostly Illusion, Elite Spell
25 energy, 4s cast time, 60s recharge time
Create a level 6...20...24 Ghostly Illusion of target non-boss enemy for 10...25...30 seconds, which joins your party as an Ally.
Ghostly Illusion has the same skills as the foe copied.
When Ghostly Illusion ends or is destroyed, you lose 40...12...10% maximum health.
(Attribute: Illusion Magic)

I don't think kind of skill was ever meant to exist. If it gains degeneration over time as well as having a set duration limit, it might be something to consider.

Quote:

It's moved it over to Illusion Magic to separate it from convenient Domination spike -- but still too much ?

Previously, when it was in Domination, it was just easier to have Mesmers using Domination to dish out the damage. Now, it's used similar to Augury of Death, just before the spike hits to prevent reactionary use of hex removal. It's the extra damage clause that makes it way too powerful for any spike or even just pressure builds (and being a hex makes it naturally harder to remove). If you really want to keep the nearby range, I'm thinking of 15% IAS/+damage%.

Quote:

Charge of the Ox, Elite Spell
15 energy, 1/2s cast time, 30s recharge
Shadow step to target foe. If target is not adjacent to any other foes, target is knocked down.
This spell has half range.
(Attribute: Shadow Arts)

Shadow Arts? Having such a high cost and recharge just for potential knockdown? At that cost, it had better deal some damage. And possibly count as a lead attack.

ClanYumemiru · May 29, 2007, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Voice of Balthazar - scrapped, run out of proper implementations.
Call fo Melandru - hmm ... must've missed your take on it. Forumblindness

Tombstone, Binding Ritual
15 energy, 3s cast time, 30s recharge
Create a level 1...6...7 Tombstone.
All undead minions within its range receive +5...16...20 armor.
When Tombstone is destroyed, it destroys one random minion within range for every 1...4...5 seconds it was alive.
Tombstone expires after 15...35...45 seconds.
(Attribute: Death Magic)

Skill Twisting, Spell
15 energy / 2s cast time / 20s recharge time
Disable a random non-signet skill for target foe for 3...6...8 seconds.
Target foe takes 1...4...5 damage for each point energy cost of that skill.
(Attribute: Illusion Magic)

Ghostly Illusion - scrapped, no proper implementation/balance possible within existing confines.

Fevered Frenzy, Hex Spell
15 energy / 2s casting time / 20s recharge time
For 5...10...12 seconds target foe and all nearby foes are hexed with Fevered Frenzy. They attack 25% faster, but take 25% more damage from attacks.
(Attribute: Illusion Magic)

Charge of the Ox, Spell
15 energy, 1/2s cast time, 30s recharge
Shadow step to target foe. If target is not adjacent to any other foes, target is knocked down.
This spell has half range and counts as an Off-Hand attack.
(Attribute: Shadow Arts)

Div · May 29, 2007, 01:07 PM // 13:07

I'd love to see skill twisting on a level 30 hard mode boss. Their base attribute would probably let it do at least 10x the damage of the highest cost skill, and the fact that they are a boss makes that damage double. 500 damage on an elementalist with meteor shower is hot

Haunting memories would be even hotter! On a level 30 boss, it'd probably do about 50 x 2 damage for every spell, which means it can hit a monk for 800ish health

D8tura · May 29, 2007, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Mesmer Domination Magic: Fight Fire With Fire

If target foe causes elemental damage X amt is dealt back to the caster (cannot exceed X amt damage)

frojack · May 29, 2007, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Skill Twisting is still over-powered. 175 max damage spike is what your looking at. Armour ignoring spike skills with this much power on Mesmers are scary. This will never trigger the hp gain in any serious pvp as everyone uses res signets.

This should only trigger on skills with energy cost. Other skills, should be ignored. Adding a damage cap would be the best way to deal with that. Something like 142 would be a good number, maybe a little less. Then you could drop the cost to maybe 10 energy (maybe), and for all the love in the world keep it as damage. It's a good skill but has balance issues.

Tremors... Earthquake costs 25 energy, has a 3 second cast, and causes exhaustion. See what I mean? Still Earthquake/Dragon Stomp could do with a buff imo...

Stoneglass Shard is interesting but bleeding isn't an amazing condition on anyone that isn't a sword warrior, and the damage isn't good enough on it's own to bother with.

I'd consider buffing it in either damage, working a weakness condition in there somewhere instead, or changing it entirely. For example...

StoneGlass Shard (or Garnet Crescendo)

10e, 3/4 sec cast, 10 sec recharge
Target foe is struck for 5..33..42 earth damage (142 maximum) and weakened for 3 seconds for each recharging skill or fully charged adrenal skill carried by that foe.

Other earth ideas...

Obsidian Synergy [E] (causes exhaustion)
5e 2s cast 5s recharge,
Spell. Target foe suffers 22..94..118 damage and is weakened for 5..8..11 seconds. Target foes suffering from weakness are also knocked down.

(An elite version of the rather good Obsidian Flame)

Diamond Cutter
15e 1s cast 20 sec recharge
Hex Spell. for 8..18..21 seconds target foe and all nearby foes are hexed with Diamond Cutter. Whenever foes suffering from this hex are hit with or use earth damage that foe suffers 8..16..21 earth damage.

(a reason to actually use Stone Sheath and to a lesser extent Stone Striker. Yay! Ebod mods!! Or whatever...)

Stalagmite [E] (causes exhaustion)
25e 2s 15s recharge
Raise a stalagmite at target foes location. All foes within earshot suffer 5..15..20 earth damage. All foes nearby suffer 10..25..30 earth damage and are knocked down. All foes in the area suffer 15..32..41 earth damage and suffer weakness for 5..8..11 seconds. All adjacent foes suffer 20..45..51 earth damage and are blinded for 5..8..11 seconds.

(The definitive earth hurt spell)

Edit:
Nerfed Diamond Cutter a bit. Stone Daggers would make it hurt... A lot.

ClanYumemiru · May 29, 2007, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by frojack

Skill Twisting is still over-powered. 175 max damage spike is what your looking at. Armour ignoring spike skills with this much power on Mesmers are scary. This will never trigger the hp gain in any serious pvp as everyone uses res signets.

Did you read the most up-to-date revision of it ? Here's the description again for you:

Skill Twisting, Spell
15 energy / 2s cast time / 20s recharge time
Disable a random non-signet skill for target foe for 3...6...8 seconds.
Target foe takes 1...4...5 damage for each point energy cost of that skill.
(Attribute: Illusion Magic)

So the absolute maximum damage any target can take from Skill Twisting is 125 damage, and only if the random chosen skill happens to cost 25 energy.

Quote:

This should only trigger on skills with energy cost. Other skills, should be ignored. Adding a damage cap would be the best way to deal with that. Something like 142 would be a good number, maybe a little less. Then you could drop the cost to maybe 10 energy (maybe), and for all the love in the world keep it as damage. It's a good skill but has balance issues.

The latest revision handily resolved all these issues, I think. (See above)

Quote:

Tremors... Earthquake costs 25 energy, has a 3 second cast, and causes exhaustion. See what I mean? Still Earthquake/Dragon Stomp could do with a buff imo...

Tremor only damages the target (Earthquake/DS hit target + adjacent, and for a lot more) and the KD is conditional (vs garantueed)

Most recent version:

Tremor, Spell
10 energy, 2s cast time, 10s recharge
Target foe is struck for 7...55...70 earth damage. If the target or any adjacent foes were moving, they are knocked down.
(Attribute: Earth Magic)

Quote:

Stoneglass Shard is interesting but bleeding isn't an amazing condition on anyone that isn't a sword warrior, and the damage isn't good enough on it's own to bother with.

It says nowhere skills have to excel at something. Stoneglass Shard is good for spreading an annoying condition around a bunch of opponents, either to add pressure to their healers, or as convenient cover for other, worse things.
Frex, drop an Eruption and bonk them with Stoneglass to cover the Blindness with Bleeding for additional effect; a sneaky Necromancer could make use of the confusion to dump in Rotting Flesh and/or Enfeebling Blood ... there's plenty potential for uses, (did someone mention Fragility) but you shouldn't expect really great things from a 5-cost spell IMHO ... there's nothing wrong with skills that have limited use or function; at worst, they use up a slot you wouldn't have had anything else for (or you don't use them at all, period), at best, they add a little extra touch to your play style.

ColaManiac · May 29, 2007, 04:30 PM // 16:30

I want to invent some skills too...

Hastefull herbs
wildernes survival, 10e 2s 15s recharge
Skill/Stance, You attack 33% faster for 2..8..10 seconds and when this skill ends you suffer 108..32...20 dmg

(ws needs own IAS skill)

Powder arrows
WS, 15e 2s 24s recharge
Preparation. For 1..10..13 seconds, you arrows deal 1..7..8 more dmg and and blind foe and all adjacent foes on impact for 1..5..5 seconds

(Like choking gas, but for melee!)

Seal arrow [E]
expertise, 10e 1/2s 15s recharge
If Seal Arrow hits, it interrupts target foe's action but deals only 1...13...17 damage. If the interrupted action was a spell, that spell is disabled for an additional 20 seconds.

(like distracting shot, but for spells!)

Arrow trap
WS, 10e 2s 20s
When Arrow Trap is triggered, for 3 seconds all nearby foes are struck for 15...30 piercing damage. Arrow Trap automatically triggers after 90 seconds. While activating this skill, you are easily interrupted.

(pure dmg trap)

Eroth · May 29, 2007, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClanYumemiru

Too effective. Compare [skill]Lion's Comfort[/skill] and/or [skill]Healing Signet[/skill]

[skill]Ignite Arrows[/skill] does the same and this would be compatible with Barrage - which would be utterly devastating.

Youch. That's one hell of a murder spike. It would require just 2 Weapon spells in the bar at 15 Channeling Magic to max it out - and that's not really a stretch or a sacrifice to do.

For fun, compare with [skill]Star Burst[/skill]

I was aiming for another War heal, cause only 2 out of the ENTIER proffesion seems kinda small to me. how bout this?

Warrior's Courage
10 energy, 1/2 cast, 15 sec recharge
Spell. For every point of health lost you gain 10...30..60% of it back. This spell fails if you are in a stance or under an enchantment.

I see whatcha mean about the barrage+Gyn's Powder thing...umm how can I change this....OH!

Gyn's Powder
20 energy, 5 cast, 60 sec recharge
Nature Spirit. For 20..30..50 seconds Gyn's Powder causes melee or staff attacks to cause an explosion that does 4...7...12 damge. (Wild Survival)

And I see how it's a fricken tank of a spike, but then again, the channeling elites mostly suck @$$ and most need spirits or items to work. None for Weapons so far (spirit strength is spawning so it's exempt). Let's try this.

Weapon's Thrust {E}
10 energy, 15 sec recharge
Skill. Touched target foe takes 20...40..70 damage and 5...15...20 for each Weapon Spell in your skill bar (maximum 80). (channeling)

now it'll take 4 weapon spells to max out and that leave you with 3 open slots (W'sT + 4 weapon spells = 5 slots). oh and here's another weapon spell for channeling.

Weapon of Sharpening
10 energy, 1 sec cast, 10 sec recharge
Weapon Spell. For 5...10...15 seconds you have a Weapon of Sharpening, of which causes +10...15..25% percent penetration.