Curse

Aera Lure · May 27, 2007, 04:25 PM // 16:25

There needs to be better support for hard mode play. It seems to simply have been added without too much thought to how it might affect party creation and the difficulties that might entail, as well as the inability to find other hard mode players who are rather scarce and scattered all about three continents.

Having played hard mode for a bit, as well as having read various threads on the topic, had a few ideas:

1. Differentiating hard mode players from normal mode players in town
Too many times now I have been standing in an outpost or mission location trying to find a hard mode group while getting invites to normal mode groups (you know they are normal mode groups because they are inviting indiscriminately as well as not specifying hard mode LFG on channel). More often than not, so as not to seem like I am ignoring them, I'll need to send a whisper to the leader offering the invite telling them I am looking for a hard mode group.

It would be better to have a way to differentiate hard mode players from normal mode players by having the "Mo/E 20" in a different color than white, to signify hard mode. Maybe yellow (choosing that over red because yellow is easier to see over backgrounds)? That or simply an icon (the hard mode helmet) showing up after "Mo/E 20", similar to how the person icon shows up after the party number above groups.

Additionally, the color change or the addition of the helmet icon would also show up after the person icon to show that this is a hard mode group.

2. Finding other hard mode players
Hard mode players are scattered all over the place, often not enough of them in any one place to form an all-human group. You just dont know where they are if you wish to find someone and band together.

Party Search seems to have been some sort of attempt to address this, but it falls short. It only serves across districts of the place you are currently in. Because of that, its honestly simply more efficient to continue using channel to find a group.

However, if Party Search was made to be global, so that you could look find other hard mode players in other towns that are seeking hard mode groups, you could PM each other and agree on a mission to do or area to vanquish and meet there to do it.

Another nice feature for Party Search would be to simply keep what you type in the Party Search field no matter where you move, so you dont have to re-enter it each time. That way you can put "Monk LFG Hard Mode anywhere" or something like that and possibly, hopefully, at least start getting something useful out of Party Search as someone might see that as you are moving around.

Things like this would certainly go beyond just aiding hard mode and make Party Search a more useful tool for everyone. I only listed here Party Search ideas that would benefit hard mode. Party Search could obviously benefit itself from some more enhancement, ie more text characters allowable, as well as being able to see who is in a party when you roll over a party in the results (as you can with party invites).

3. Invitational Awareness
Related in some ways to #1, but many times players will get invited to a group and be set to the other difficulty mode. Would probably still happen on occasion even if #1 was implemented.

This would simply be either a momentary pop-up that fades away on its own that says the player you just invited is set to a different difficulty mode, or, there would be a little indicator (again, color change or icon) down there you invited them to let you know that they are indeed set to a different difficulty mode.

4. Shortage of hard mode players and/or difficulties finding them
I would far, far, FAR rather play with other people than with Heroes and henchmen. It just gets too boring to run around with Heroes and henchmen for any length of time, to me, even if I can actually set them up more to my liking. I am quickly losing the urge to even do so.

Reality is, sometimes you cant find other players for what you need to do. In that case, call in the Heroes and henchmen. I find, though, of course, henchmen dont fare terribly well in hard mode. They do ok, but not as good certainly as your Heroes.

We should be able to use all of our Heroes when creating an all AI group. There is no need to go so far as to change the flagging interface to accommodate. Simply allow that only Heroes 1-3 can be individually flagged, as it currently is, and the others need to be controlled with the All flag, just as current henchmen.

Honestly, I'd far rather points 1 and 2 be addressed, as I am bored as hell with playing with Heroes and henchmen, but at least, if it came to the point where I absolutely had to, and decided I wanted to, I could set up a team that worked nicely together. Some henchmen skills/attributes/elite skills combinations are questionable (leads me to wonder as i long have why Anet wouldnt fix this - but its another topic).

Aera Lure · May 27, 2007, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Gaile Grey has said #4 officially will not happen (allowance for 7 Heroes in hard mode):

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Grey

I have spoken with the design team, and they do not intend to increase the number of heroes in a party either for normal mode or Hard Mode. As I have said before, the maximum number fulfills many design objectives, and the primary reason for not making a chance is that the team does not want to disincent someone from playing in a party with other people, and the change requested leaves little doubt that this would occur. Secondary reasons include but are not limited to: Not being able to control the number of heroes which results in the inability to use them as intended (having them sort of be "super henchmen" without the delicacy of control and an essential interaction between leader and heroes), or, if used as intended, having an extremely cluttered interface that makes it difficult to play the game with ease and enjoyment. (That of course could lead to the request to alter the interface to use the number of heroes that is in fact higher than intended, and that is not planned nor part of the schedule, obviously.)

I have read the comments that players have made about this subject, and more important, the majority of those on the design team have done so, as well. I discussed this with James Phinney, Lead Designer, and he said that the team fully understands the arguments that players have made in support of allowing more heroes, or all heroes, in a party. They are aware of the suggestions as fars as having a cobbled system with controls for some and no controls for others, or modifying the way heroes function, or making changes to the interface to allow full interaction. However, the final decision on this matter was made by the design team prior to release of Nightfall. So do be assured that the designers have read the comments, concerns, and suggestions on this matter, but with a clear and comprehensive view of the overall game, and out of respect for the vision that they have and must champion for the game, they have no plans to make a change to the number of heroes controlled by a player.

Taken from here. Thanks to Zinger314 and the topic here for the info.

Wasnt exactly what I was looking for anyway. My concern is actually more to allow hard mode players to better find and recognize each other, since my experience in game with that goes very, very bad. Too few and far between and scattered all over the place they are.

Using 7 heroes was a last ditch effort idea if Anet wouldnt do something along the lines of 1-3. Since they arent doing #4 officially, hoping all the more they do 1-3.

SuperDave · May 27, 2007, 10:22 PM // 22:22

1. /signed
2. /signed
3. /signed
4. Would be nice although I'm trying to avoind heroes/henchies completely. If I can't find people for what I intend to do I come back later.. So yea, wouldn't hurt much, so /signed

Aera Lure · May 27, 2007, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperDave

4. Would be nice although I'm trying to avoind heroes/henchies completely. If I can't find people for what I intend to do I come back later.. So yea, wouldn't hurt much, so /signed

Me too. I am bored to tears with playing with AI. Reason? I am forced to do so much of the time when I want to play hard mode. I dont wish to do it anymore, at all, ever, hence really where the original post was coming from.

The fourth idea to be able to use 7 Heroes in hard mode I put in there as a last ditch thing that might help, if nothing else was done to better help hard mode players find each other in game. Might at least be remotely more interesting to assemble a nice team working in synnergy and might bring me back to doing some more Ai play in hard mode when i had to on account of not being able to find human players. Henchmen have simply the worst skills chosen for them combined with poor attribute choices, and Gaile's quote seems to imply that's on purpose. I'm with you though - I could care less in the end for fixing that. I want human teammates, or at least a few of them. How to find them is the problem.

So anyway, the 4th thing officially isnt going to happen, as per Gaile. Needent worry about signing on to that idea or not.

Verkinix · May 28, 2007, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Is hard mode supposed to be an exercise in futility? I just spend the last 2 hours clearing old ascalon in hard mode. Almost failed due to the stupid healing grawls that have insanely good healing and are tough to kill before the party wipes. I mean, ok its hard mode so it should be hard, but this is almost rediculous. Anyway, I can deal with the challenge for the most part, but as I progress into the bigger and bigger zones, its gonna take longer and longer to complete them. I dont always have 8+ hours to achieve the task at hand, so I was thinking there should be a "save" mechanism. Something where you can save your progress in that instance and pick it back up later when you are solo. Like you "save", log out, come back later, log to the same point you were at - dp, enemies killed, etc... in tact. That way you arent forced to leave the computer running over night because you just couldnt finished the last 50 enemies of the 600 enemy zone that you've already spent 4 hours on. As stated above, it would be nice to be able to find other HM players easier across the whole game. Places like mineral springs are going to require human players in order to accomplish. I had a hard enough time mapping MS with heroes and henchies in normal mode. I dunno, I like the challenge, but I'd like it to be balanced as well. It does feel sort of "thrown together". Also, what is the point of xp? There is like 2% of the total player base that actually is going for survivor title. The other 98% has no use for the 50% xp bonus. Maybe instead of getting skill points, when a player "levels" they should get a candy cane equivalent item that will allow them to remove dp and such. And/or when you finish an area in HM, you get a candy cane equivalent item of your choice or random. Those items are far more useful then xp and skill points. I suppose if skills cost 100g instead of 1k, I might be more inclined to buy them, but as it is, I have my 2 dozen favorite skills per profession that I use and thats all I need. On my main char, I have 190 skill points or so that will probably never get used. Maybe we coudl use skill points to "purchase" items like candy canes that will allow us to remove dp in the field. Or other items like the cupcakes that give us a health, energy, armor, whatever bonus. Mostly, we need options. Right now HM is a take it or leave it game. It really doesnt suit the players who arent going for survivor title, dont have 6 solid hours to devote to a single run, or just lack the ability to always be 100% efficient 100% of the time. Someone like me who recently achieved legendary cartographer, as well as almost all 3 protector titles in normal mode and plays the game pretty well overall, is a little put off by the tediousness of the HM. Overall I'm getting kind of bored with the game, even across 10 characters, and I want something different that I can achieve in a reasonable amount of time. It would be nice if I wasnt limited to having to do HM on each and ever character. If more of the titles were actually account based rather then character based, things would be alot more fun. The wisdom/treasure titles for one make no sense. Not everyone plays the same character exclusively, so in order to have decent chances to get good stuff out of chests or prevent things from breaking, you have to ID tons of gold items and open tons of chests to increase the titles for each character. I'm starting to think the whole game is an exercise in futility. It took me months to finish mapping all 3 continents on a single character. I dont see why all my other characters cant benefit from it. Protector titles are good as they are, but titles like wisdom/treasure/cartographer/vanquisher should all be acct based IMO. As for HM, it really needs to be balanced a bit more and needs to have some decent objectives and rewards to become viable. Right now its just something for players to do while they wait for GW2 and no real goal in mind. Even with the title, it isnt known to provide a buff of any kind so there is very little reward for alot of work. Overall, it needs to be looked at.

Aera Lure · May 28, 2007, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Paragraphs ftw!

Mostly I'm concerned here about players being able to find each other in game, and my suggestions lean towards that direction in this topic, especially as regards the significant minority seeking to play hard mode. I have played in PUGs a lot since i really enjoy meeting new people and the randomness involved with making groups that way. PUGs are certainly on the decline. Not only are hard mode groups very difficult to come by, but even normal mode PUGs I see as having difficulties in an increasing number of mission locations. It will only get worse when GWEN is released. The game needs improved Party Search features, badly.

[off topic remarks]

I dont think we need account-based titles so much. If you have the title somewhere on a character, you will reap the reward in GW2 if you go that far. It doesnt matter what character you have it on, unless you want to gamble that having a certain title a couple times will get you two or more of a certain thing from the HoM. I dont think they'll change the titles you mention to being account based. In fact I am sure of it. Too much time has gone by with them the way they are.

I dont think a save mechanism would be implmented, but you should make an idea topic about it if you would like to chat about it there. Most vanquishing involves other players, or at least one other player, so its unlikely to be of much use. The times you are alone while vanquishing, finding a safe place to idle overnight works just as well (short of a power outtage or other snafu). I see your point, but I doubt they will get into saving instances.

I'm completely disillusioned with titles. I find them a tedium and a chore now. I started getting bored the second I logged in once I thought about the "tasks" I had to accomplish to no real benefit (yes, for me, I include the "bonuses" for GW2 as no real benefit either - I could care less for a few extra unlockable things compared to the effort and time investment needed). It caused me to retire from the game for some months. I'm back and enjoying the game again, but with a different perspective this time. I want to play. I let titles guide my play choices of what I do a bit, but I dont let them rule. No more chores. Many people i know are gone from the game because of this.

I enjoyed SO much getting all three Protectors titles with PUGs for the most part on my monk that I retired all other characters and now wish to get all three Guardians titles with her just to relive the experience. Guardian titles are all I wish to do, but not for the sake of the titles. For the fun. In a guild, in PUGs - no matter - so long as it is with people. Its where I am coming from in this topic. I want hard mode players (and normal mode too) to better be able to find each other and form groups, because i see that situation as much much worse now than it was. Hard mode groups are hella hard to find and an increasing number of normal mode mission locations seem to have difficulty too.

Belzan · May 28, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Party Search is very underused. It has so much potential, but people are used to typing LFG Mission/Bonus/Masters and spamming that (or in the case of selling items: WTS/WTB). Making it global would be very nice. Keep in mind though that there are LOTS of people playing GW at any given time on any given server. Can you imagine 500,000 posts on Party Search looking for people for missions? Let's just ignore the people looking to sell items for the purposes of this conversation.

I think this will vastly help people find eachother and allow for missions to be run by human players rather than 1+ hero/hench. As GW:EN and GW2 come over the horizon, fewer and fewer players will be available to join groups for missions in, say Magumma Jungle. How frustrating is it to not be able to form a group in a mission that is incredibly hard without human players? Very.

Ultimately, the benefits of a Global Party Search make it a fantastic idea. Implementing it into the game may be hard to do or even impossible given the current system. I think having a dropdown menu like the Quest Log would help to differentiate regions and towns. I think limited writing space will help to clutter it less (something like 25-30 characters should do--LFG HM 3/8 Ele Mo Wa plz) and keeping messages here for a limited time (say 10 minutes or 1/2 hour) should save on bandwidth. Also, I think it should be limited to missions and large towns (Lion's Arch, Kaineng, Kamadan, Ascalon City, Shing Jea).

Picture this: You and 3 of your friends are in Aurora Glade (an area notorious for being barren of players). You have just completed the Mission and bonus on Normal Mode with henchies, and now you want to do it on Hard Mode. The leader clicks on the Party Search button and finds Aurora Glade under the drop down menu Tyria > Maguuma > Aurora Glade. First he scans to see if anyone is looking for a group to do the mission in HM. He finds 2 people looking to do the mission on HM and whispers the characters to invite them into the group. One of these people is in FoW and says he will be there soon, while the other is hanging out in Kaineng City selling her wares. Both agree to join. Now, the leader types into the party search window "5/6 LFG HM lf Monk" (5 of 6 people looking for group in hard mode looking for monk). After 15 minutes of waiting they gain one more person and begin the mission (or not and decide to take a henchie instead).

Cuts down on wait times for forming groups and allows for better communication between players. Also allows for groups to form in areas that most players skip (Maguuma Jungle) or that aren't played as often.

Thoughts?

Jedi Battousai · May 28, 2007, 05:50 PM // 17:50

1. Either That or something along the lines of: 1 town (even add a town to the game) where everyone that wants to do HM in that campaign meets and from there they can recruit players to do mission x/bonus. This would remove the "there are only 5 players wanting to do HM in every town. Instead, there are 100 players wanting to HM in 1 place and you can get more people this way.

2. #1 suggestion of adding 1 area for all of HM to meet removes the need for the global party search, but the global party search is a good option.

3. It would be nice if there was an option that if you had HM selected, you couldn't be invited to a NM party and vice versa.

4. Get 1-3 adressed and 4 is solved.

As for XP bonus in HM, Verkinix, it is so DP gets removed faster.

Verkinix · May 28, 2007, 05:58 PM // 17:58

I should appologize for that. I normally dont write in one big jumble. It was 4am and I was nodding off at the computer. Not sure why I decided to post. I dont think I had much rational thought at the time, so it may have seemed logical, but had I been more alert, I probably wouldnt have posted.

Anyway, I think the point I was trying to make was that there needs to be rewards in the game to match the amount of time and effort put into getting them. Currently the rewards are trivial at best compared to the effort and time required.

I have my legendary cartographer title now, but only on one character. I've played that character so much that I am now sick of playing her, but in order to sport that I've scraped every single inch of tyria, cantha, and elona, I have to play her when what I really want is to play one of my other 9 characters. That said, even when I have my LC title on, most people wont even stop to take notice any more. When NF came out, I got 100% cartographer in a week and people were impressed. I had several ask how I did it and such. Now its like, meh, not big deal. So why did I chart all that map? Mostly cause I'm a perfectionist and had to have everything clear. But to clear the same on the other 9 characters just to have something to show for my time would be insane.

Ok, I've gotten a bit off track with that. Hard Mode, I just wish was more fun, have decent rewards, and give me some reason to play it. Old Ascalon was a little more exciting at first because finally the noob area was actually a challenge. But there is a challenge and then there is ludicy. The healing grawls from what I can remember were far too effective to be fun. A group of 4 players should not take 20 minutes to kill a group of 3 grawls. Its not realistic and gets annoying. 18 of those 20 minutes was spent trying to kill the healer. The other 2, including a boss, went down quickly after that. There are just alot of balance issues in HM where all the skill in the world doesnt make up for raw numbers that have very small chance of stacking up. If every zone of the 54 zones in tyria are like that, nevermind cantha and elona, and all you get is some 700g and 1500 xp, whats the point?

And finding a party of HM'ers is a chore, I agree with that. A player should be able to toggle their HM and that would put them in the search list automatically and show what location and zone they are in. If a player is out in the field, then they wouldnt show up in the search obviously, but those who are sitting around in the hubs could easily be found. Further someone in say elona with access to tyria could do a join party with a player in tyria and if accepted, automatically fast travel to that location. That would greatly promote player community and greatly reduce the need for heroes.

Perhaps even add a ranking system. People are in a group and at the end they can choose to vote a 5 star ranking for how they felt that player did. That way groups can see before hand if a player is going to cause problems or not. Perhaps do a multistar ranking where you have codes of conduct, player skill, and disconnect rating. I dunno, just a thought. PuGs can be tricky sometimes, so its good for the group to know who they are dealing with before hand.

Anyway, again sorry about the post last night. I hope this post is a little more coherent and redeems me somewhat. I just want GW to be all it can be. I love the game and play it almost exclusively. All in all, it is a very well made game. No monthly charges and yet they still add new stuff to it all the time. Such high integrity and regard I hold Anet in!

Latah!

Aera Lure · May 28, 2007, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verkinix

I should appologize for that. I normally dont write in one big jumble. It was 4am and I was nodding off at the computer. Not sure why I decided to post. I dont think I had much rational thought at the time, so it may have seemed logical, but had I been more alert, I probably wouldnt have posted.

No apologies needed. I have done that before myself and I was only teasing anyway. ^^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verkinix

I have my legendary cartographer title now, but only on one character.

Congrats. I would like to do that as well. I have Grandmaster on my warrior and am very close on the others, but alas, i retired her anyway. Interested now in only working on a single character, my monk, since i enjoy her the most. Sort of limits title needs and hero managmement at least a little bit, which was something I really needed when I came back. While I am taking a sort of "let them be" stance on titles for myself, so i dont focus on them too much and retire again, I may like to one day pick them back up. Who knows. I certainly dont think Legendary Cartographer is a trivial accomplishment. I know what's involved having nearly gotten there on my warrior. Doesnt matter at all that its a little more common. Congrats are deserved any way you look at it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verkinix

And finding a party of HM'ers is a chore, I agree with that. A player should be able to toggle their HM and that would put them in the search list automatically and show what location and zone they are in. If a player is out in the field, then they wouldnt show up in the search obviously, but those who are sitting around in the hubs could easily be found. Further someone in say elona with access to tyria could do a join party with a player in tyria and if accepted, automatically fast travel to that location. That would greatly promote player community and greatly reduce the need for heroes.

I like this. Maybe you can see other hard mode players on the list automatically, as you say. Probably would need an option to not be shown on the list for those adamant to play on their own or in a guild-only group. For me, I'd like to show up on a list when i have hard mode turned on so people know I'll join them wherever they are, for the most part. Send me a PM and I'll come on over if not busy. Beats standing in town after town for long stretches of time LFG on channel for hard mode, getting normal mode invites and seeing a ton of people standing around with (4) over their heads not playing with other players, while at the same time i suspect they are doing hard mode with heroes. Anything to assist players looking for groups would be nice.

Maybe having it be hard mode search only, and even then, user choice would help sift from the potential ton of entries on the search list if it became global, as pointed out by Belzan. Not sure 500,000 search hits is what I am looking for either. At least I would know I wasnt alone lol. Some way to find hard mode players and help stop the fracturing of the community, which will only get worse when GWEN comes out, would be ideal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verkinix

Anyway, again sorry about the post last night. I hope this post is a little more coherent and redeems me somewhat. I just want GW to be all it can be. I love the game and play it almost exclusively. All in all, it is a very well made game. No monthly charges and yet they still add new stuff to it all the time. Such high integrity and regard I hold Anet in!

Like I say, been there done that. I was in fact a little down on titles when I replied, but that honestly isnt my official position. Hats off to those who have them and i have pursued many and even now indirectly seek Guardian for all three continents. Just cooling my heels on them for a while so I dont burn out again. My main thing is I'd simply like to see players playing together again more and the ability for hard mode players who wish to do that - to find each other.

Aera Lure · May 28, 2007, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belzan

Party Search is very underused. It has so much potential, but people are used to typing LFG Mission/Bonus/Masters and spamming that (or in the case of selling items: WTS/WTB). Making it global would be very nice. Keep in mind though that there are LOTS of people playing GW at any given time on any given server. Can you imagine 500,000 posts on Party Search looking for people for missions? Let's just ignore the people looking to sell items for the purposes of this conversation.

lol yeah. I wonder how many people would actually use it if it were implemented globally? I really envision it as a hard mode tool more than a huge repository of trade and party and other global communication uses, which I would agree would get out of hand quickly. Maybe its limited to hard mode only in the global context, since most mission outposts still have enough people in them to form normal mode groups at any time, and if not, most anyone can hero/hench anythign they want in normal mode.

Its hard mode players that are really in limited supply during group formation. I spend most of my time online bouncing town to town looking for hard mode groups and am not always successful. Not often even. Its using heroes/henchmen that I am actually trying to avoid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belzan

I think this will vastly help people find eachother and allow for missions to be run by human players rather than 1+ hero/hench. As GW:EN and GW2 come over the horizon, fewer and fewer players will be available to join groups for missions in, say Magumma Jungle. How frustrating is it to not be able to form a group in a mission that is incredibly hard without human players? Very.

Magumma lol. Exactly. Especially as you say when GWEN comes out it'll be more of a problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belzan

Ultimately, the benefits of a Global Party Search make it a fantastic idea. Implementing it into the game may be hard to do or even impossible given the current system. I think having a dropdown menu like the Quest Log would help to differentiate regions and towns. I think limited writing space will help to clutter it less (something like 25-30 characters should do--LFG HM 3/8 Ele Mo Wa plz) and keeping messages here for a limited time (say 10 minutes or 1/2 hour) should save on bandwidth. Also, I think it should be limited to missions and large towns (Lion's Arch, Kaineng, Kamadan, Ascalon City, Shing Jea).

Limiting results would be key. Maybe it really is only for hard mode globally.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belzan

Picture this: You and 3 of your friends are in Aurora Glade (an area notorious for being barren of players). You have just completed the Mission and bonus on Normal Mode with henchies, and now you want to do it on Hard Mode. The leader clicks on the Party Search button and finds Aurora Glade under the drop down menu Tyria > Maguuma > Aurora Glade. First he scans to see if anyone is looking for a group to do the mission in HM. He finds 2 people looking to do the mission on HM and whispers the characters to invite them into the group. One of these people is in FoW and says he will be there soon, while the other is hanging out in Kaineng City selling her wares. Both agree to join. Now, the leader types into the party search window "5/6 LFG HM lf Monk" (5 of 6 people looking for group in hard mode looking for monk). After 15 minutes of waiting they gain one more person and begin the mission (or not and decide to take a henchie instead).

Yeah, see I would come from pretty much anywhere to go and join that group. Exactly what i would like to see for hard mode play. Heavenly just to think about. ^^

Puebert · May 28, 2007, 06:50 PM // 18:50

/signed, although I think we need better rewards.

My problems with Hard Mode are:

Rewards

Yay, 200 gold. -.-

I think you should at least get 10K! Why? Because of Loot Scaling and all other farming nerfs, you need more money. And besides, HM is probobly best done with ppl, not heros.

DP

Once you get past 15% it becomes nearly impossible to gain it back. Even though they offer -1% DP with every kill, you still die again before you kill 15 of them. And the more DP you get, the less effective you are.

I think they are going to have to either rework DP in general, or make CCs more available.

Finding Players

You've already adressed this.

They need to pay some more attention to HM. They put so much hype for it before it came out, and then they left it behind. (And there obviously IS a Anti-Farming Code there)

Aera Lure · May 28, 2007, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puebert

My problems with Hard Mode are:

Rewards

Yay, 200 gold. -.-

"This is hard mode!"

Sorry. I truly could not resist.

Rewards could be a bit better. I dont disagree. Tomes when I find them are nifty and I like finding lockpicks. Lockpicks are useful for working on my Unlucky track.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puebert

DP

Once you get past 15% it becomes nearly impossible to gain it back. Even though they offer -1% DP with every kill, you still die again before you kill 15 of them. And the more DP you get, the less effective you are.

Scrolls help. CCs help more of course. A couple mobs taken out and you can recover that 15% pretty quick. I dont think its too bad. You're right, if it goes below 15% and on beyond 30% its hell. Groups I have been in havent died very much, but that's my experience as a monk primary I admit and mileage may vary. If a team is experiencing many deaths, it might be an indicator to make an adjustment. With that said, there are a number of areas I havent done yet in hard mode and am sort of dreading. I suppose I leave this one open and am indifferent on it for the moment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puebert

They need to pay some more attention to HM. They put so much hype for it before it came out, and then they left it behind. (And there obviously IS a Anti-Farming Code there)

Yes please. Before GWEN comes out and it gets worse.

Puebert · May 28, 2007, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

"This is hard mode!"

Sorry. I truly could not resist.

Rewards could be a bit better. I dont disagree. Tomes when I find them are nifty and I like finding lockpicks. Lockpicks are useful for working on my Unlucky track.

The rewards from HM are not worth the effort. Maybe they should do what they did with Deep/Urgoz, add a chest at the end for everyone that contains a gold item.

Quote:

Scrolls help. CCs help more of course. A couple mobs taken out and you can recover that 15% pretty quick. I dont think its too bad. You're right, if it goes below 15% and on beyond 30% its hell. Groups I have been in havent died very much, but that's my experience as a monk primary I admit and mileage may vary. If a team is experiencing many deaths, it might be an indicator to make an adjustment. With that said, there are a number of areas I havent done yet in hard mode and am sort of dreading. I suppose I leave this one open and am indifferent on it for the moment.

Well, I was Vanquishing Eternal Grove with a Ranger. We were doing fine, killed 5 bosses, (including a Rit w/ [skill=text]Preservation[/skill] he was a beast to kill), but then we got to this one Elementalist boss that slaughtered us.

So, we died, spawned and tried again.

We didn't kill anything this time.

Tried again, same thing.

We did this forever until we got 60% DP and then we were forced from the area.

We were doing fine, but once we got to that boss, we could not kill it, had we had our origonal 10% morale boost, we probobly would have killed him, unfortunately, because Zhed decided to play tag with him, we all died.

And what happened when we died? We lost our Morale Boost we worked so hard for, and we got a 5% DP. And after that, every time we went to kill him (he had about 4 other enemies left) we were destroyed before we killed anything.

I think that because of HM, there needs to be a whole new system of DP, even though it workes fine in NM, its a very bad omen once you get that 1st death, because you are ALWAYS guarenteed at least -5% DP when you die.

Series · May 28, 2007, 08:29 PM // 20:29

/signed to the 50th power times 2

Verkinix · May 29, 2007, 12:20 AM // 00:20

The rewards really need to be increased in general, but especially in HM. Wheres the incentive for players to move on to HM when there is nothing to get or need. Even the collectors (ie the one with noob armor in old ascalon) dont offer anything new or max. Just the same old noob armor for the same materials.

Last night I did have 2 lockpicks with me and used them both. I got a purple from one and a mediocre gold from the other. Now, I know this is the first area in tyria, so I'm not upset seeing as I got 2 golds that whole run, but in general it would be nice to have some rare skins that only drop in HM and/or some unique stats to them that are useful under certain cirumstances specifically geared toward HM.

An example of something useful to certain people during certain circumstances would be a fire wand that has a 5-10% chance of casting a fireball that nukes the whole group. Call it Overloading fire wand or something. Or an ice staff that has a chance to encase an enemy in a block of ice until it's hit. Maybe limit these items to PvE stuff to prevent exploits in PvP. Maybe even put in some PvP specific rare items that PvE'ers could put up on a psuedo market for PvP'ers to spend faction/balth points on. It could work similarly to the current trader systems.

Maybe the collectors could offer rare clothing skins/stats/insignias to people who have cleared an area, obtained a medallion or something which can be exchanged for an item at a collector that only appears in the area once its cleared.

Maybe there could be a "secret" area at the end of all the campaigns once a player has achieved the max vanquisher and protector titles. These areas could be elite and offer some uber rare skins and such like the current elite areas.

I dont think any of those are unreasonable given there are systems like that already in the game. I just think alot more support for HM will come when there are decent rewards for undertaking the huge tasks.

One thing I use are the skalefin soups, salads, and drake kabobs from istani area. They help a little bit in a crunch and are cheap to get in mass quantities. That said, being able to buy or craft something that will let you remove some dp or all dp like the candy canes would go a long way in removing the tedium of HM and increasing the fun while remaining challenging.

Apart from that, much has been said about being able to search for HM players. A decent search system will go along way to making HM viable for the community.

If anyone needs an Elem for HM, send me a whisper. Thats what I'll more then likely be working on from here on out. Almost all my characters are level 20, but my elem is my "title" char. Kinda sucks cause I love playing my MM, monk, ranger, etc..., but there is no point seeing as my Elem has the most progression toward titles.

Take care all!

Aera Lure · May 29, 2007, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Well, let me add a hearty thanks to those who have PM'd me in game and here. You know who you are. I'll be looking you up for hard mode play and I thank you for that. The formation of random groups lives on ever yet. ^^

Doesnt change the fact that I'd like to see some of the ideas here come true to further help hard mode players with both incentive and finding each other - ways to differentiate and identify each other in town, possibly some tweaks to the invite system, the vaunted global Party Search (if possible somehow) or ways to find players, maybe thinking about rewards again.

Charlotte the Harlot · May 30, 2007, 03:00 AM // 03:00

I agree a lot with the suggested ideas another thing i was thinking about was making at least the hard mode titles if not more global that way if you want guardian on your ranger but they are practically useless in the area your going for you can grab your mesmer or whatever instead.

Until some of the hard mode improvment ideas are implemented I probably need some other players so ill be pming some of you.

If any1 needs more HM players my ign is charlote the harlot im uax have all the heroes and will be up for most HM things.