Curse

Wyat Hawke · May 22, 2007, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Hello all, to those who do not know me (meaning, mostly all), I am Wyat Hawke. I have a big passion for testing and inventing new builds to use, either for PvP or PvE. With that information in your backpack, I'm going to move on to the real issue.

Alright everyone, hands up to those who think they've seen the most ridicilous build ideas in RA. There are many different versions, and not everyone of them works. I'll admit I've used RA to test many of my builds, even those I would naturally assume was going to be a complete disaster. Something might look brilliant in your head, but fails completely when you go into the real game.

My problem here is, I have to go all the way through RA trying to test the build (this especially applies to all sorts of PvE builds). And I can imagine how extremely annoying it must be for those 3 other individuals to see the whole group lose just because of me, or any other person who tries out a new "test" build in RA. I know I get really annoyed when I see someone trying some utterly wasted combo. But can't really test it anywhere else, what shall we do?

The most natural thing to think about would be the Isle of the Nameless. Here you can find a wide variety of targets to practice on. But as always, there's something shattering that delusion.

And the big problem with the Isle is that it's simply to small and narrow-minded. It's a good start for those who are new to the game and PvP, but if you want to test something there, it really isn't the right place. In the Isle of the Nameless, you can only

* Fight 1vs1 style against the Masters of *
* Hit dummies

That really doesn't work out completely. For PvP builds, the Masters work to some extend. But what if you want to try out a build that focuses on AoE damage, or a against a special build you can't find on that island? Then your lost. If you try to use the island for testing most PvE builds, your also lost. You simply don't see a Elementalist in PvE going 1vs1 against a enchantment removing warrior. There's many other excamples also, what if you want to try out a new monking build that doesn't target yourself? Or even more annoying, testing out a new version of a 55hp build or 1hp?

No, the Isle of the Nameless simply doesn't suit all those purposes. But yet, I don't want to go to RA and waste other peoples time? Perhaps that stupid n00bish smiter monk was just testing out a new way to farm sardelac sanatorium?
And besides, going to RA is also a rubbish way to try and test a build, even a PvP one. You don't have any clue what you will face, so you won't be sure if you'll even meet the foes your special build focuses on.

Indeed, it isn't easy. Testing out builds should be easier, and those going to RA shouldn't always have to worry about getting a bunch of people with their test builds. So perhaps someone could read through my post and say what they think? My suggestion is this:

Tester Arena
This place should be something like the Isle of the Nameless, although only separated into two parts. The first place would be something like the old Isle, where you have AoE-dummies, but these dummies (sheep, grawls or whatever) should be able to move out of the AoE skills. Being able to set their health bars and armour would also be great, so you can try and determine how much damage your build would do own an enemy. they should have something like the Masters on the Isle, a small circle they can move around in (about 1 and a half aggro circle perhaps?) If you have any other suggestions of what these moving dummies should be able to do, then please feel free to post it below.

Now for the second part, that is my real idea. Imagine this;
You are in an explorable area (just like the Isle), in a small locker or something alike. Below you, you can see a gladitors arena (a circled battleground). You can first set your own skills, attributes and so on while you are in this explorable area. I'm outmost tired of having to go back and fourth between the Great Temple and the Isle, just to change one single skill or an attribute point. I want to be able to do that while I'm in this certain explorable area, so I won't have to waste so much time. That's a bit off the point, let's continue here.

When you are satisfied with your skills and setup, you enter the arena (straightaway, no 15 seconds of waitning), where you fight against your own Hero's, the Hero's that YOU can decide should use what sort of skills.

Just imagine how much easier testing would be, if you could try out all sorts of combinations fast and easy, against the foes of your choice. Also, it's an marvellous way of trying to simulate a PvE fight. I know there are many PvE farming builds that require the farmer to be attacked (builds that utilizes energy management from skills like essence bond and such). I think you should have a maximum of 3 Heroes, just as in PvE. And perhaps even a way to give them either NM AI, or HM AI, who knows?

After the fight is over (if they die, you die, or you decide to cancel the fight) you return to back to your old position, in the locker. Now, if you wasn't completely satisfied you can then rearrange your skills, replace some or even try a new build. Things would be so much easier if we didn't need to teleport back and fourth from the Isle and the Temple (or from a RA battle, for that sake). I'm not sure how it would be to try and make a RA simulation (meaning, you get 2 extra NPC-teammates to fight off the 3 Hero's of yours), so any help would be appreciated.

In the end, it is those who go to RA who will benefit from it. If all people is going to the backyard to test out good/awful builds, it would make leave the better people off in RA. It won't remove ragequitters and "noobs", but atleast all the "try-and-completely-fail-at-the-exspense-of-others" would be gone. And after all, don't we all want that?

Cheers: Wyat (and forgive me for any spelling mistakes)

Wyat Hawke · May 23, 2007, 04:33 PM // 16:33

So seriously, not a single person cares about the idea?

Or was it a bit to long... >_>

Feme Assassin · May 23, 2007, 06:28 PM // 18:28

man it was a bit long yea but when i want to test a new build i do a scrimmage with some guildies and not go to arena and if the build is good then i go to ra so scrimmages can solve your problem

Mr. G · May 23, 2007, 07:35 PM // 19:35

aww i like the really bad and whacky builds...add a bit of colour to RA

Wyat Hawke · May 24, 2007, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feme Assassin

man it was a bit long yea but when i want to test a new build i do a scrimmage with some guildies and not go to arena and if the build is good then i go to ra so scrimmages can solve your problem

But you need to think about the players that don't actually have a guild where they can ask around for help. Or, they might have an severely inactive one. You can't always rely on friendly teammates to help you out, they have stuff to do aswell. Sometimes that just isn't enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. G

aww i like the really bad and whacky builds...add a bit of colour to RA

Then I wonder if you play RA for glad points, or if you play RA very often at all... I used to do it, but got sick of all the people who A) couldn't play a build properly, or B) had a obviously flawed build. Yes it's amusing in the start, but it turns into a real pain.

Any other suggestions/tips/hints/ideas?

gameshoes3003 · May 24, 2007, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Your idea does make sense to where we should be able to test the builds on NPCs. But that could defeat the purpose, you can kill a bot, but can you killa human player?
Sure you can set up the skills, but can the bots use the skills as effectively as human players?
Also you say that people can make awful test builds, well they're not awful yet 'till their tested on other players. And many players with awful builds can most definitely outsmart any bot.
I just personally think that RA is still the way to go, whether you lose or not.

Wyat Hawke · May 25, 2007, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by gameshoes3003

Your idea does make sense to where we should be able to test the builds on NPCs. But that could defeat the purpose, you can kill a bot, but can you killa human player?
Sure you can set up the skills, but can the bots use the skills as effectively as human players?
Also you say that people can make awful test builds, well they're not awful yet 'till their tested on other players. And many players with awful builds can most definitely outsmart any bot.
I just personally think that RA is still the way to go, whether you lose or not.

You are absolutely right, a bot can never be as good as a real human player (the only exception might be in interrupting). However, I still think it is an valid idea, since this is still a good indication of what you will see. And besides, it's a good way to test PvE builds you have. It's just the fact that I don't want to waste others time and making them loose because I got a new build idea I need to experiment a bit on.

Sofonisba · May 25, 2007, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyat Hawke

You are absolutely right, a bot can never be as good as a real human player (the only exception might be in interrupting). However, I still think it is an valid idea, since this is still a good indication of what you will see. And besides, it's a good way to test PvE builds you have. It's just the fact that I don't want to waste others time and making them loose because I got a new build idea I need to experiment a bit on.

I see where you're coming from here. I've tested builds against dummies and such on the Isle but when I get into arena, well, heh, the dummies fight back.

I think that glad points perhaps ought not to be awarded for RA. It would make it ONLY for fun. I seem to recall fewer leavers before they instituted that title.

Also, like you say, if you're a nice person, you don't want to be the doof who accidentally joins in on a team's 9th win with your experimental build and ruin it for them.

I think it's a fine idea, and I would probably use it.

/signed

Wyat Hawke · May 26, 2007, 09:08 PM // 21:08

*sigh* I guess I have to bump this topic, people seem more concerned if we should be able 2h's in the game at the moment..

cjb909 · May 26, 2007, 10:37 PM // 22:37

I don't think a separate arena is warranted... Maybe just improve the Zaishen Challange?

holababe · May 26, 2007, 11:16 PM // 23:16

/signed

When i played WoW i liked the test realm they had.
It was a seperate realm where players got to test new features.

Wyat Hawke · May 28, 2007, 10:54 AM // 10:54

bump

(how embarrasing)

Div · May 28, 2007, 12:39 PM // 12:39

There's already a tester's arena in the game. You can access it through isle of the nameless, where it takes you through 4 different matches like RA. Similarly, there are challenge arenas in the battle isles where you fight TA-style against computer controlled people. Not exactly what you stated, but it's as close as what ANet is going to implement. They're not going to spend hundreds of hours adding that feature to save a few minutes of your time, especially since they haven't even balanced skills yet (which is supposedly "high" on their agenda)

Wyat Hawke · May 30, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

There's already a tester's arena in the game. You can access it through isle of the nameless, where it takes you through 4 different matches like RA. Similarly, there are challenge arenas in the battle isles where you fight TA-style against computer controlled people. Not exactly what you stated, but it's as close as what ANet is going to implement. They're not going to spend hundreds of hours adding that feature to save a few minutes of your time, especially since they haven't even balanced skills yet (which is supposedly "high" on their agenda)

Well, if they want to ease off some pressure in RA, then this should be an high priority. And those tutorial matches you mean? you realize that they are disabled for the day if you exceed a certain amount faction gain? Yes, you actually get faction for killing them, so they've put a cap on how many times you can use it every day. They could remove the faction gain, but it wouldn't help, it would still be hard to test out builds there for a various of reasons. I understand that this most likely won't be implemented right now with just a snap of my fingers, but it who knows, perhaps after the release of Gw;en or in gw2? this is a suggestion thread, I'm just offering my ideas

EDIT:
I thought of some other nice features that could be added. I was thinking somewhat along the lines of this:

For pve testing, any monster that you have killed, you can put into the arena. You can then take who ever is in your party (Hero's or perhaps a friend?) and fight how ever many (that is reasonable) of that monster you want and kill it with your party up to 8. Also it could be a great place to test out solo builds so you can take for instance 20 trolls and kill them solo with an ele.

For PvP, the possibility to add enchantments or hexes on them (permanent ones like the examples you find in the Isle of the Nameless, or hexes/enchantments you've unlocked), and the armor level.

Eroth · May 30, 2007, 09:28 PM // 21:28

I have a simple solution: just go test it in PVE, and for PVP, go AB or something. Fight the crap outta the NPCs or charge into a mob.