Curse

Trevor · Jun 09, 2007, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Sigh.

Consider this. If water hadnt been buffed in the last major skill update, no one would have been using it in PVP anywhere near as much as it is being used now. It was essentially the water trident buff that got water magic realised, and gave the line viable play in PVP, but it is still pretty pointless in PVE. Some damage tweaks to make it more usefull in PVE isnt really too much to ask for, as long as they do not go over the damage lines of other attributes.

The water trident didn't bring water eles into the spotlight, it was the mind freeze buff/icy shackles. And shatterstone to a lesser extent.

Nice try though. I'm sure you're uninformed opinions matter to someone out there.

linh · Jun 09, 2007, 09:11 AM // 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Mesmers are being balanced for PVE play as we speak. The same should be done for water elementalists.

Consider how weak enemies in PVE that use water magic are compared to air and fire ones. In the exception of 20 ice imps spamming maelstrom, they are pretty pointless compared to everything else, because the water line is weak in PVE.

Don't act as if Water is a whole class. The whole mesmer class is weak generally in pve, and it needs to be buffed so people can use mesmer in pve. But water is only 1 attribute line of Ele and it serves different role than nuking. And it is still correct that Ele in general is nuking and big dmg class by its Fire and Air spells. If you have an ele and want to pve, go air or fire for dmg.

MithranArkanere · Jun 09, 2007, 09:17 AM // 09:17

My only concern about water magic is that its skills have usually long recharge times...

I'd rather have their energy costs increased a bit and their times decreased than their damages buffed.

I only put heroes with water, since I mostly get bored with water magic if I don't take one of the few 'fast' skills water magic have, like Ice Spear or Freezing Gust.

bhavv · Jun 09, 2007, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor

The water trident didn't bring water eles into the spotlight, it was the mind freeze buff/icy shackles. And shatterstone to a lesser extent.

Nice try though. I'm sure you're uninformed opinions matter to someone out there.

lol, you obviously have NO clue yourself what your talking about.

After the water trident buff, I were playing a trident elly in HA for weeks. Trident is the spell that completely devasted relic runners with its new found 99.9% chance to hit a moving target, not the removable slow hexes.

Icy shackles really only saw play in para spike as paras really cant spam trident all day, mind freeze was probably only used in GVG, even though it was hardly used as much as trident.

william1975 · Jun 09, 2007, 12:25 PM // 12:25

I don't much like water but i can at least appreciate the logic behind why it is formed the way it is, Cold and water to me would abvioulsy do less damage but slow the enemy down a lot, whereas fire is goign to do massive amounts of damage, earth will do a fiar amount of damage and knockdown, whereas air is more likes to do high amounts of damage to singular foes, unless the conditions are right.

I don't think the spells are inapropriate, I like the way they are set up.

/notsinged

Ohh i like to do lots of damges quickly, but from a distance, thats why i havent used much water magic, its also why i use Air as my attacks on my mesmer, just love the fast casting on it.

Trevor · Jun 09, 2007, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

lol, you obviously have NO clue yourself what your talking about.

After the water trident buff, I were playing a trident elly in HA for weeks. Trident is the spell that completely devasted relic runners with its new found 99.9% chance to hit a moving target, not the removable slow hexes.

Oh. I honestly don't give a shit about what goes on in HA. By the very nature of it it's pretty much exempt from anything almost balanced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Icy shackles really only saw play in para spike as paras really cant spam trident all day, mind freeze was probably only used in GVG, even though it was hardly used as much as trident.

Have you been in GvG lately? I don't know what goes on at the rank1000+ end, but try to find a half-decent guild that doesn't run icy shackles on an elementalist runner. If not, it's probably shatterstone. Really not that many people run water trident. You're some no-name scrub, and you're just making yourself look stupider by the post.

Go back to SF please

bhavv · Jun 10, 2007, 12:15 AM // 00:15

I really dont care about GVG, hence why I am posting in a PVE orientated discussion thread. The top end of GVG do not make up the majority of PVP'ers that play Trident elly in PVP.

Go and play other things in the game like HA before thinking Trident isnt the skill that bought water ellys into the spotlight in PVP. The last I checked, PVP = HA, TA, and GVG, not just top 1000 GVG.

Trevor · Jun 10, 2007, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I really dont care about GVG, hence why I am posting in a PVE orientated discussion thread. The top end of GVG do not make up the majority of PVP'ers that play Trident elly in PVP.

You can't change anything in PvE without changing it in PvP. It doesn't matter if you don't GvG, any talk about drastic changes to the game need to be thought of in a PvP perspective even more so than PvE. There's no such thing as a "PvE only" thread concerning skill balances.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Go and play other things in the game like HA before thinking Trident isnt the skill that bought water ellys into the spotlight in PVP. The last I checked, PVP = HA, TA, and GVG, not just top 1000 GVG.

Maybe I am just posting about GvG. But you're just posting about HA. And nobody really gives a shit about what goes on in HA.

Winterclaw · Jun 10, 2007, 07:26 PM // 19:26

In PvP there are better damage options than water. Buffing the damage might make people want to include it now and then, but if every so often one team ends up running a water spike, what big deal is that? There's been air spike, earth spike, and SF.

Oh No! People might be able to run a spike in a new element that (if we are lucky or anet screws something up) might be comparable in damage to past el spikes that can still be used to some effect.

Trevor · Jun 10, 2007, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

In PvP there are better damage options than water. Buffing the damage might make people want to include it now and then, but if every so often one team ends up running a water spike, what big deal is that? There's been air spike, earth spike, and SF.

Oh No! People might be able to run a spike in a new element that (if we are lucky or anet screws something up) might be comparable in damage to past el spikes that can still be used to some effect.

It's not the possibility of a spike, it's the fact that that'd be buffing an already questionable line. It's like asking for faintheartedness to slow cast time too.

Water Angel · Jun 10, 2007, 07:58 PM // 19:58

not signed, your points are bs.

water not enoug dmg?u make me laugh. vapor blade dmg at 16 : 143 whats more than any ele spell in game.
no mentioning all extras of water magic : good dmg reductio, slow down enemies, make them miss, good for prevent them from run of aoe,good for interupt,and nice aoe effects.
i do regulary play water ele in pve and pvp.on both its more than good.if u think water magic need buff in pve you should stop play ele.

water provide all tactical stuff u need ina pve or pvp team.and deal more dmg than any fire or air single spell dealin dmg(vapor blade,shatter, and ice spear> in dealing fast dmg than other spells,cept maybe ss or sh)

Kool Pajamas · Jun 10, 2007, 08:29 PM // 20:29

This thread is like asking for life stealing skills in death magic. Or bow skills in beast mastery.

Radiant Dawnstar · Jun 10, 2007, 08:58 PM // 20:58

bhavv, you're a moron. Did you get your rank by IWAYing?

FelixCarter · Jun 10, 2007, 09:03 PM // 21:03

I use to feel the same way about Water. Alot of the "spam" skills are not nearly as good as Fire, Wind, and Earth. On top of that, all the damaging skills have conditional requirements that usually rely on the other elements.

But, then I switched to a Terramancer and realized all the elements have thier own Pros and Cons. While water had low damage, I was able to slow foes down to a snail's pace and allow my Warrior and Assassin friends to rape away. Many a monk can die to the hands of a Hydromancer+Assassin.

Earth is just as good, though. While you're sometimes limited in speed, Assassins and Warriors usually have a difficult time trying to crack open your shell of earth and rock. On top of that, there are many Terramancing skills that can do good AoE damage... Not as good as Fire, but damn close.

In the end, the only thing I want to complain about is:
Where the f@%# is my Conjure Earth?

Div · Jun 11, 2007, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I really dont care about GVG, hence why I am posting in a PVE orientated discussion thread. The top end of GVG do not make up the majority of PVP'ers that play Trident elly in PVP.

Go and play other things in the game like HA before thinking Trident isnt the skill that bought water ellys into the spotlight in PVP. The last I checked, PVP = HA, TA, and GVG, not just top 1000 GVG.

Anet balances skill power for PvP. You're playing a game that focuses its balancing on PvP, so it doesn't matter where you post your bad logic. Just face it, they'll never balance skill power for your little PvE quests because "water is underused" or "illusion magic sucks". End of argument.

And I can say with 99.99% certainty that bacon knows a lot more than you about the overall PvP metagame, so your arguments are pretty pointless before him.

Winterclaw · Jun 11, 2007, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Anet balances skill power for PvP.

But they have made or are currently making changes for PvE as well. So long as the damage isn't more powerful than fire or air, I don't see why a few of the skills couldn't be buffed a little.

Trevor · Jun 11, 2007, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

But they have made or are currently making changes for PvE as well. So long as the damage isn't more powerful than fire or air, I don't see why a few of the skills couldn't be buffed a little.

Icy Shackles and Lightning Orb? Yeah, no thanks.

Kool Pajamas · Jun 11, 2007, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Making changes doesnt mean unbalancing professions. They are updating mesmers not making them into nukers which seems to be what people are suggesting for water eles.

Winterclaw · Jun 13, 2007, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Here's another idea I had to buff water magic. How about having it so that if two people cast shatterstone on a target, the second hex would cause the first one to go off and do its damage on skill end.

KP, I think that while water els do need to keep the snares, they also deserve to have a few decent nuke spells.

For example, if in GWEN, there was one or two water nukes that did damage comparable to (but a tinsy bit less) air or fire, but disabled your other water hexes for 5-10 seconds, I'd be happy with something like that.

Something like

Winter's Fury (elite) 15e, 1c, 4 recharge
Spell. Do 24...120 damage to foe but disables your water magic hexes for 10 seconds. For each hex disabled this way, do 24...120 damage to one foe near your target. Each foe can only be hit once by this secondary effect.

or

Winter's Blast 10e, 1c, 8 recharge
Spell. Do 20...120 cold damage to target foe, all of your water magic hexes are disabled for 10...5 seconds.

or

Shiva's Fingersnap (elite) 10e, 1c, 7 recharge
Spell. Do 8...64 cold damage foe and remove up to two water hexes from target. For each hex removed this way, this spell does an additional 8...48 cold damage.

Trevor · Jun 13, 2007, 12:30 PM // 12:30

What's the bloody point of nuking with water magic if it disables your snares? Just go fire for god's sake.

What the hell is wrong with you people?