Curse

MithranArkanere · Jun 17, 2007, 11:07 PM // 23:07

You help the luxon and kurzick when fighting and making quests for them, not when you receive the rewards, nd almost no one gather faction of one side having more than 1k of the other, so...

You get sunpsear and lightbringer points when you kill and receive rewards, not when you spend hero skill points or get skills.
You get hero, commander, gladiator, etc points when you win fight, not when you spend Balthazar faction.

No matter how much you thing about it, since now you increase the title by getting any of the possible rewards, the titles should be changed to the EARNED points, not to the spent ones.

Since the data is already there (just hover the mouse over the faction bars), this is a MUST, no excuse or logical reason not to do this.

Please rate this thread! ^0^ /!

Entreri · Jun 18, 2007, 07:05 PM // 19:05

/signed

Good idea, makes sense.

Bazompora · Jun 19, 2007, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

No matter how much you thing about it, since now you increase the title by getting any of the possible rewards, the titles should be changed to the EARNED points, not to the spent ones.

Since the data is already there (just hover the mouse over the faction bars), this is a MUST, no excuse or logical reason not to do this.

/signed on that too

shivanSoule · Jun 19, 2007, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

What's with the and? The reality is simple:

People who traded faction for amber/jade recieved rare materials.

People who donated faction made progress in their titles. Helping their alliance was a consequence of title advancement. Was simply the way the title worked.

These are the choices that people made, and they were perfectly equal.

Absolutely.

"Using the "Raise Alliance reputation" option with the Kurzick/Luxon faction reward NPCs now gives 10,000 points toward the corresponding title track. The cost is still 5,000 faction points, and the reputation gained by the alliance is still 5,000."

/notsigned
because the title was meant for those who helped their alliance in the first place. before the skills update, not many would care going for the title. it is your choice if you donated faction while in an alliance that does not control a town. if you really want the title, join an alliance who does, it will benefit both parties.

Alka · Jun 19, 2007, 08:50 AM // 08:50

/notsigned
all of you ppl spent fac pts for personal wealth and i spend it for guild wealth so screw all of you dont deserve that pts toward your title

bilateralrope · Jun 19, 2007, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by shivanSoule

/notsigned
because the title was meant for those who helped their alliance in the first place. before the skills update, not many would care going for the title. it is your choice if you donated faction while in an alliance that does not control a town. if you really want the title, join an alliance who does, it will benefit both parties.

Ok, how is donating to an alliance that has no hope of holding a town of any benefit to that guild ?

And since its of no benefit to the alliance, why should we of chosen a then worthless title over something that would actually give a benefit ?

Or were we somehow meant to predict this change coming despite no warning at all from ANET ?

Did you even read the thread, or did you somehow miss people giving the same argument as you and it getting the same reply ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alka

/notsigned
all of you ppl spent fac pts for personal wealth and i spend it for guild wealth so screw all of you dont deserve that pts toward your title

What happened to the letters missing from your post ?

shivanSoule · Jun 19, 2007, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Ok, how is donating to an alliance that has no hope of holding a town of any benefit to that guild ?
And since its of no benefit to the alliance, why should we of chosen a then worthless title over something that would actually give a benefit ?

you help your alliance by donating faction, of course it doesnt benefit you besides getting points in the title, if your guild is not in an alliance holding a town.

why would you want to do that before the update? unless you want the title. players who did donated to their alliance that has no hope of holding a town did so at their own choice. think about it, if you're going to faction farm alot and want to advance the title, donating to a alliance that owns a town helps both you AND the alliance.

you chose to get benefit instead of getting a title which was 'worthless' to you before the update. but the title before the update meant something to others and some did donate faction even though they were not in an alliance holding towns.

Did you even read the thread, or did you somehow miss people giving the same argument as you and it getting the same reply ?
i did and i hate repeating myself. if you really read my post you'll know what i mean.

now with the new update, its the same as before, you can choose to get materials/scrolls for your faction or advance your title faster. its your choice. at least now you also get title points.

baz777 · Jun 19, 2007, 12:49 PM // 12:49

/not signed

You traded for amber or jade, sold it or used it to get armour, now you want the same benefits as those that donated to an alliance.

No, sorry, sounds like you want it both ways to me.

Have what you want but Anet takes all it’s armour/gold back bought/traded with amber/jade – fair?

ilipol · Jun 19, 2007, 01:31 PM // 13:31

If I may suggest a compromise :

Create a new Title track named "Faction Gained" ( or something like that )
attach the Skills to that and keep the "Faction allegiance" title as it is.

That way people who spent faction on amber/jade advance only 1 title and those who donate advance both.

tsnorquist · Jun 19, 2007, 04:04 PM // 16:04

From my observations, there are two legitimate sides to this argument.

1.) People whom donated faction: to benefit his/her alliance, the corresponding parties (Luxon/Kurzick), and or themselves to wear a title.
2.) People whom donated faction for monetary benefits or tangible goods (in the sense of your avatar).

Each side has a valid point, but only a few folks seem to be observing the argument from both sides.

One must ask himself, "How would I feel if I donated faction to further our party's cause, but in return, knowing I will not see any monetary or tangible benefits?" Many players took this route for the prestige and honor of such duties. They did this without any prior knowledge of future skill implementations or personal gains (besides a personal title to wear).

On the other hand (or paw if you're a beastmaster), "How would I feel if I donated faction to further my own interest in specialty armors, weapons, and goods via bartering or selling Amber/Jadeite to merchants & players for monetary purposes?" Again, many players took this route for the short term personal gains, business relations, and tangible benefits of trading/selling.

With the introduction if these skill sets corresponding to "Alliance Faction Gained/Donated", it has caused a rift in many players perspective. We need to answer the question, "How do we fix this rift?". Well a pissing match back and forth isn't going to solve it, but one real solution is available.

Solution: Go spend time with your family, friends, and enjoy some real world activities. When is the last time many of you played a game of basketball or went to the playground with your kids? How about a picnic outside or a summertime movie with the family. Ride a bike, ski, snorkle, surf, go fishing.... just don't contemplate "grinding" out xxx million faction for a virtual label or virtual skills. Arenanet will come to their senses and open these skills up to anyone eventually so everyone can use them. They will scale up with faction just as your attributes scale your current skills. It's the only thing they can do to stop the constant bitching and moaning from each side.

"Life is about the journey... not the destination."

I hope my post cleared things up for everyone, have a pleasant day or night if you're over on the other side of the globe

bilateralrope · Jun 19, 2007, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by shivanSoule

Ok, how is donating to an alliance that has no hope of holding a town of any benefit to that guild ?
And since its of no benefit to the alliance, why should we of chosen a then worthless title over something that would actually give a benefit ?

you help your alliance by donating faction, of course it doesnt benefit you besides getting points in the title, if your guild is not in an alliance holding a town.

why would you want to do that before the update? unless you want the title. players who did donated to their alliance that has no hope of holding a town did so at their own choice. think about it, if you're going to faction farm alot and want to advance the title, donating to a alliance that owns a town helps both you AND the alliance.

you chose to get benefit instead of getting a title which was 'worthless' to you before the update. but the title before the update meant something to others and some did donate faction even though they were not in an alliance holding towns.

Before the update the title was completely useless to me, though it did have meaning to some people. So I'm still not getting why you think I should of gone for it, or that the people who found some meaning for it deserve more rewards than people who farmed equal amounts of faction since they were happy with the title itself or they wouldn't of earned it.

As for donating to a town holding guild to benefit them when, as I'm not a member of that guild, I'll never see any benefit, how exactly does that make any sense ?

Quote:

Did you even read the thread, or did you somehow miss people giving the same argument as you and it getting the same reply ?
i did and i hate repeating myself. if you really read my post you'll know what i mean.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why people who chose to go for a title should be rewarded over people who see the title as completely useless.

william1975 · Jun 20, 2007, 03:42 AM // 03:42

I think its lousy how anet implemented skills that were based on the faction title.

I agree with bilateralrope that this is unfair on those that were not interested in the title, anyone with sense would have got amber or jade rather than donating. It is also quite true to say that if these peole had known of this update they would certainly have been going for the title instead.

I think the suggestion of linking the skills to a new title based on faction earned is the best suggestion here, rather than the retroactive thing.

Personally IM in the group of people who are going for the title just for the title chasing aspest of it. And it is true in my case that this has no benifit to my alliance and never has. This is due to me being in a two person guild with my wife, and changing from luxon to Kurzick regularly to increase both titles

I do think howevr that the suggestion of the op is too simplistic, as I stated in the riverside inn thread too.

This is because i think retroactive measueres should apply equally to all affected by this update.

Therefore the suggestions made by others that if anet was to give title advancement to those who bought amber/jade then it woudl only be reasonable for them to give jade/amber to those that traded for the title.

And yes i do think those that were in a large alliance that owned towns already got monetary benifits, though they may not all have taken advantage of them.

/unsigned for Op suggstion
/signed for implementation of new title linked to skills, or
/signed for retroactive benifits of title progression and jade/amber supplies

Evilsod · Jun 20, 2007, 04:59 AM // 04:59

Can we just assume that its never going to happen and close all threads suggesting this? They've given us double faction to the title if we donate or get a skill, i think that more than covers any retroactivity needed. If you care so much about this title get off your arse and do a little grinding... or just go play some AB.... or do some vanquishes in the right territory.

bilateralrope · Jun 20, 2007, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Can we just assume that its never going to happen and close all threads suggesting this? They've given us double faction to the title if we donate or get a skill, i think that more than covers any retroactivity needed. If you care so much about this title get off your arse and do a little grinding... or just go play some AB.... or do some vanquishes in the right territory.

A little grinding ?

I've seen a post from one person who spent over a million faction on amber.

The one estimate of how long it would take to max out a title from scratch was 42 days (over 1000 hours) non-stop. Since we now get double faction for donating, thats still 500 hours of gametime doing stuff we don't enjoy to get to the content that other people, who payed the same amount of cash as us, have access to. Yet when we purchased factions we were all under the assumption that if we payed for a chapter, we would easily get access to its content.

I wounder if that breaks any false advertising laws in any of the countries ANET operates in.

As for how to implement the retroactivity, currently I see only two options with the records we know ANET keeps:

- Make the title always work of the higher of your faction earned or current title number, and keep track of both.

- A one off thing where if a players faction earned is higher than your title amount, then the title amount is set to the faction earned then the title proceeds as normal.

Excluding faction lost to earning over the 10k limit (probably only an issue with the befriending quests) and faction lost to spending on the other side both would function the same, but the second would need less server resources in the long term. The second also looks easier to program as its just a script that goes through every account and compares two numbers and if one is higher than the other, the other is set to the faction earned amount.

As for either getting people to give back the jade/amber, or give a gold benefit to the people that donated, how do you propose to go about calculating that amount with the data you know ANET has recorded ?
If your algorithm doesn't take into account the following, it won't work:
- Faction lost from donating to the other faction
- Faction lost over the 10k limit
- The double rewards donating and skill purchases now give
- Faction donated after jade and amber started giving points to the title
- The varying price of jade and amber since factions was released

I would also complain about you got the rewards you were expecting when you donated, and then a lot more. But since it doesn't directly effect me, why should I care ?

Actually, since us having the skills doesn't impact you in a negative way, why do you care ?