Curse

bilateralrope · Jun 22, 2007, 02:05 AM // 02:05

The reason so many people are upset about the faction based PvE skills is because they don't have access to them, despite putting in equal work earning faction to the people that do.

However I see no reason that any skills need to be linked to a title track. All it does is introduce a lot of grind.

From the OP in this thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSWatson1974

If you won every Alliance Battle you fought and got the 1250 pt bonus, you would have to....
1)Play and Win 8000 matches.
2)Playing 2667 hours with an average of 20 minutes per match.
3)Playing an average of 8 hours a day for 333 days.

Can I say "Full Time Job"?

While he doesn't take the double points for donations into account, that merely halves the time required. Its still nearly half a year.

So why not just unlink the skills from the titles, and give them to everyone at full strength once they meet the conditions for purchase (if you want those changed, please discuss it elsewhere). This would divide people into 3 groups:
- Those that title farmed before the skills. Its just putting things back to how they were before the update, when you chose to put in the work. So you will have the rewards you expected when you earned it. And you have the new skills. So no loss for those with max title, and a gain for anyone not at max title.
- Those who spent it on jade/amber before the update. Well, you still have the jade/amber and you get the skills at full strength. So a gain here.
- Those that earned faction for the skills after they came in, but would of been doing other things otherwise. If you don't have rank 1, you still need to earn it. If you do then you lost a small amount of gold, but you are now getting the titles at full strength. Since you are earning for them, you clearly think they are worth the loss in gold (from either getting jade/amber or from farming elsewhere), so no loss here since your planning to level them up further.

This should also make re-balancing the skills easier as ANET only needs to worry about the max level, instead of all levels between r1 and r10.

FoxBat · Jun 22, 2007, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

All it does is introduce a lot of grind.

Oops, thats the entire point of these skills. It was so "popular" in nightfall that we get 50 title-grind skills in GW:EN, aren't we special...

Series · Jun 22, 2007, 02:44 AM // 02:44

/signed because it makes sense

FelixCarter · Jun 22, 2007, 02:51 AM // 02:51

I like the idea of PvE-Only Skills. But the "grind" to get them to be useful is kinda annoying. I, personally, don't even have rank 1 in Kurz/Lux Title, but even then, the only skills I'd use are Summon Spirits, Elemental Lord, and maybe Selfless Spirit on a bad day. The way things look, most of the skills aren't really worth the grind for me.

If the skills came maxed, I'd work harder to get up to tier 1 in Kurz/Lux Title. But as it stands now, I've got better skills I can waste my time with.

/Signed for great justice.

Bishop200 · Jun 22, 2007, 02:57 AM // 02:57

I don't see how being friend with the Kurzix/Luxon could help you better your skill. If you want to balace a little put them a attribute.

I don't really like PvE only skill anyways.

DarkGanni · Jun 22, 2007, 10:31 AM // 10:31

As a casual player I agree here, These Skills require alot of hours in grinding points, I rather have them as a normal attribute and actually USE them. In the condition they are now they are kinda useless to casual players.

/Signed with no doubts.

Kinn · Jun 22, 2007, 12:28 PM // 12:28

I don't think this is the solution, but I will say that as a general rule, linking skill effectiveness solely to title rank is a HIGHLY FLAWED concept.

You know what worries me? When GW:EotN comes out and we have 50 more skills based on title rank. I can imagine skillbars dominated or even filled with skills that require absolutely zero attribute point investment to be at their maximum effectiveness. That strikes me as a particularly broken concept.

BSSuperman · Jun 22, 2007, 12:40 PM // 12:40

HA HA LOL - Thanks for the PVE only skills that depend on our prowess in PVP. HAHA No its not a flame or anything I really do think its funny.

Oh well back to FFF

BlueNovember · Jun 22, 2007, 12:41 PM // 12:41

It works fine as is; it's not like the skills are necessary to play the game. It's a reward for those who obtained an otherwise useless title. Divorcing them from the track makes no sense.
/not signed

Warrior Of The Toon · Jun 22, 2007, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Hmm I have a slight alteration on this idea, it involved adding attributes to these skills:

At rank 1 you get access to all skills, but you need 16 in the relevant attribute to use it at full potential.

At rank 2 you need 15 in the attribute to use the skill at full power.

At rank 3 you need 14 in the attribute to use the skill at full power.

At rank 4 you need 13 in the attribute to use the skill at full power.

At rank 5 you need 12 in the attribute to use the skill at full power.

etc, etc, but maybe at the end make the req for full power go down 2 points at a time.

These skills while under the max power would go down in the same increments as current rank skills do. So for rank 1, 16 points = current rank 10 power, 15 = rank 9, 14 = rank 8, 13 = rank 7, etc.

madman24749 · Jun 22, 2007, 01:01 PM // 13:01

/signed
They definitely need to fix this
I want those skills maxed but I don't have the time to grind . . .
Wasn't this game supposed to keep everything in reach of casual players???

Evilsod · Jun 22, 2007, 01:03 PM // 13:03

These skills are for people who decided to grind the title. Only the Paragon and Warrior ones are even worth using.

Sorry, but these skills are in no way vital to completing the game, they're a bonus to give you somet to grind for until GWEN comes out if you so desire. Nobody is demanding that you must take them along...

Master Sword Keeper · Jun 22, 2007, 01:10 PM // 13:10

The supply demand for these skills are too great. Yea sure you little fanboys can sit at home whilst we work hard to keep the power flowing. I'm not signin for the unlink. ridiculous....

Why make a set of skills that suck and link them to a completely lost cause...
Need I say more?

FoxBat · Jun 22, 2007, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinn

I can imagine skillbars dominated or even filled with skills that require absolutely zero attribute point investment to be at their maximum effectiveness. That strikes me as a particularly broken concept.

Those skills aren't profession-specific, what else are you going to do with them?

We'll see but I have a hunch from released info that most of them will be effective in specific locations like lightbringer.

Evilsod · Jun 22, 2007, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinn

I don't think this is the solution, but I will say that as a general rule, linking skill effectiveness solely to title rank is a HIGHLY FLAWED concept.

You know what worries me? When GW:EotN comes out and we have 50 more skills based on title rank. I can imagine skillbars dominated or even filled with skills that require absolutely zero attribute point investment to be at their maximum effectiveness. That strikes me as a particularly broken concept.

Such a bar already exists... its called Cry of Pain and Necrosis with Echos and some crappy acting hex.

Dougal Kronik · Jun 22, 2007, 03:53 PM // 15:53

/not signed

I don't have the first rank in the Kurzick or Luxon title track and too bad. Those that do can get the skills and use them, if I want them, I now have a goal to reach that will keep me playing.

But the Factions skills don't really interest me at all, so no reason to try to acquire them.

Kinn · Jun 22, 2007, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Such a bar already exists... its called Cry of Pain and Necrosis with Echos and some crappy acting hex.

Thus it has begun

ibex333 · Jun 22, 2007, 11:54 PM // 23:54

/100% NOT SIGNED (Please Anet! Whatever you do don't listen to this person!) Don't take away what little is left of the rewards we have in this game!

Why should you get everything just because you don't want to grind? The new PvE skills are for those who grind ONLY! Not for you. Most importantly, you are NOT at a disadvantage if you don't have these skills. This is the beauty of GW.

Can't you see? Linking the new PvE skills to titles is a wonderful idea!! This gives players an incentive to keep playing for a reward!

Don't you understand that NONE of the new PvE skills are ESSENTIAL for your gaming experience? You will still be able to attain ANY title, beat ANY campaign, and kill ANY boss WITHOUT the new PvE skills.

No offense man, but it's the people like you that f-ed this game up.

See, the way it used to be is if you grinded you could get a nice gold item... If you didn't grind you could get an equivalent collector item that is every bit as good, except for the skin. It was BRILLIANT! (I wish these times were back)

But people whined, and cried... And eventually Anet screwed the game up in such a way where 60 to 80% of all players can easily get every single item in the game short of crystalline swords and the like, and FOW armor too...

Now this game is NOT AS FUN!! Why would I want to keep playing anymore? I have almost everything. There's nothing to strive for! I'd rather grind for weeks to get a skill no one else has.. or an item.... Rather than get a silly tittle that is just a "phrase" under my feet.

Now.. If I get the title, AND a cool skill.. or a new armor no one can have unless they grind...Now we're talking! I know that I'm grinding.. Because I'll be rewarded!! Everyone cant, and SHOULDN'T be equal!

There's a reason Communism failed you know! (God knows I wished it worked)

bilateralrope · Jun 22, 2007, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueNovember

It works fine as is; it's not like the skills are necessary to play the game. It's a reward for those who obtained an otherwise useless title. Divorcing them from the track makes no sense.
/not signed

Considering that the people who do have the title worked towards it while they weren't expecting any kind of reward, how does linking them to the title make any sense ?

Linking them to the title:
- Puts them out of reach for casual players.
- Puts them out of reach for players who could of been working towards the title, but because they didn't know these skills were coming they did things that weren't eligible for the title. Like spending faction on jade/amber.
- Forces anyone who wants the skills to grind at them for months to max them out. This goes directly against ANETs promise of skill being more important than time played.
- Encourages more people to leach faction at the PvP arenas while AFK.

So whats so good about linking them to a title again ?

Now if you think that the people who have the title deserve some kind of reward, pick something that doesn't directly effect gameplay. For example let them earn gold faster.

bilateralrope · Jun 23, 2007, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibex333

/100% NOT SIGNED (Please Anet! Whatever you do don't listen to this person!) Don't take away what little is left of the rewards we have in this game!

So considering people earned the title while they weren't expecting a reward, why do they deserve one ?

Quote:

Why should you get everything just because you don't want to grind? The new PvE skills are for those who grind ONLY! Not for you. Most importantly, you are NOT at a disadvantage if you don't have these skills. This is the beauty of GW.

I paid the same amount as you did for guild wars because of ANETs promise that skill would be more important than time played. So when they go against that promise and make content I'm not allowed to get, of course I get pissed.

Quote:

Can't you see? Linking the new PvE skills to titles is a wonderful idea!! This gives players an incentive to keep playing for a reward!

So pick a reward that doesn't keep other people from having access to content. Such as a way to earn gold faster (treasure hunter, wisdom and luck titles)

Quote:

Don't you understand that NONE of the new PvE skills are ESSENTIAL for your gaming experience? You will still be able to attain ANY title, beat ANY campaign, and kill ANY boss WITHOUT the new PvE skills.

If GW:EN comes out with grind heavy skills that the PUGs require, will you concede your point here ?

Quote:

No offense man, but it's the people like you that f-ed this game up.

Personally I view self-censored swearing worse than just swearing in the first place because you are showing that you know that its unacceptable, but you go and do it anyway.

Quote:

See, the way it used to be is if you grinded you could get a nice gold item... If you didn't grind you could get an equivalent collector item that is every bit as good, except for the skin. It was BRILLIANT! (I wish these times were back)

But people whined, and cried... And eventually Anet screwed the game up in such a way where 60 to 80% of all players can easily get every single item in the game short of crystalline swords and the like, and FOW armor too...

This is probably more a result of prices dropping as people get the weapons, lowering their demand. But there are still some really expensive items.

Quote:

Now this game is NOT AS FUN!! Why would I want to keep playing anymore? I have almost everything. There's nothing to strive for! I'd rather grind for weeks to get a skill no one else has.. or an item.... Rather than get a silly tittle that is just a "phrase" under my feet.

Now.. If I get the title, AND a cool skill.. or a new armor no one can have unless they grind...Now we're talking! I know that I'm grinding.. Because I'll be rewarded!! Everyone cant, and SHOULDN'T be equal!

I won't complain about you getting special weapon or armor skins. Or emotes. Or the ability to obtain gold faster. But my problem is that at this point, I'm worried that GW:EN (with its promised title based skills) will require lots of grinding to finish the game because you need to level up its title skills. So I draw the line at anything that requires significant grinding for even the slightest improvement in stats that would effect the other people in your party.

Especially when people were equal one day, then ANET suddenly changed the rules and the few that did grind are suddenly in a better position than other people.