Curse

=DNC=Trucker · Jun 27, 2007, 09:31 AM // 09:31

cripes, 250 holy damage! Dude...

arcanemacabre · Jun 27, 2007, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

and balanced stance :P but yea how bout this

15 E, 1 sec cast, 30 second recharge

for 2...20 second whenever a party member would be knocked down that foe is knocked down instead.

its the aegis version :P

100% all for this - just perfect!

Hawkeye · Jun 27, 2007, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Knockdown is overpowered, but lets not correct it by instating what would be the end of knockdown tactic altogether. And yes, Trucker. 250 holy damage. Holy crap.

Sli Ander · Jun 27, 2007, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenex Xclame

I was gonna say that Sli Ander's idea was good but ,Tenshi's is even better.
How the skill is now its completely stupid,you gotta remember this is an elite skill, so you are taking away an elite from someone else.

But yes ,this skill remade to something where it has:
A 30 second recharge but last ~20 seconds or a 20 second recharge but last ~10-12 seconds.
A 1 second cast time ( it has to be able to be interruptible by any decent ranger or mesmer)
It being a enchantment.
It being an elite AND it being in smite line would make it not broken.

And indeed as glountz said very interesting build

Thank you very much, and I agree that Tenshi takes the cake on this one. He actually put some thought into it, and it now looks like a very interesting skill.

As both Glountz and you said, the fact that its an enchantment helps balance out the skills power, as its removable. But what about other spells which would affect this one, such as Echo, Air of Enchantment, etc, which would offset some of the energy costs and penalties? I'd check myself (as I presume most of them are already used for aegis) but I cannot access wiki from my internet source because of restrictions. Just a thought...

But that's just my two cents

Xenex Xclame · Jun 27, 2007, 03:25 PM // 15:25

@ hawkeye : Nobody said knock down was powerful , I at least don't think it is.
Neither would this skill be , if it was changed to something like is being talked about.

I don't get how this would be overpowered and Ward of Stability isn't.

I dunno about your guild, but in my guild theres a quite a few times where our caller ask for the target to be rend of shattered, so they can spike.

@Sli : Yes this is one of the things i was thinking about earlier today

this modified with arcane echo would cause it to by up quite a lott.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lets take this as example :
It last 20 seconds and the recharge is 30 and it cost 15 energy.
You use Arcane Echo (15 energy)
You use Balthazars Pendelum (15 Energy)
Your team has 20 seconds anti knock down ( if not removed)

You cast the echoed one before the first one expires. (15 Energy)
Your team has another 20 seconds of anti knock down ( making it now 40)

You cast Balthazars Pendelum (15 energy)
Your team has another 20 seconds of anti knock down ( making it now 60)

Now when this ends you have 10 seconds of downtime.

So your infinite chain has ended at 1 minute.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

This isnt even counting in the energy cost, cause i highly doubt you will be able to keep up with the energy to keep this up all the time and have energy to casts normal mesmer skills.

Sure you could put in Auspicious Incantation but thats 3 skills just to be able to keep this up all the time and still be useful and yes of course you could use AE to echo other skills, i just don't think its that practical like that.

glountz · Jun 27, 2007, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sli Ander

As both Glountz and you said, the fact that its an enchantment helps balance out the skills power, as its removable. But what about other spells which would affect this one, such as Echo, Air of Enchantment, etc, which would offset some of the energy costs and penalties? I'd check myself (as I presume most of them are already used for aegis) but I cannot access wiki from my internet source because of restrictions. Just a thought...

Air of Enchantment and Echo are both Elite. So you won't be able to stack with Balthazar pendulum.
IMHO, BP being elite and in Smite line, even if it is boosted to a party wide anti-KD, it will be still rarely used by monks who have better elites to take than this one.
It might see some use on secondary casters with lot of non-elite e-management (aka Support Elementalists).
But it could see the emergence of a third monk , a smite one, in 8v8 format.

glountz · Jun 27, 2007, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenex Xclame

-

Lets take this as example :
It last 20 seconds and the recharge is 30 and it cost 15 energy.
You use Arcane Echo (15 energy)
You use Balthazars Pendelum (15 Energy)
Your team has 20 seconds anti knock down ( if not removed)

You cast the echoed one before the first one expires. (15 Energy)
Your team has another 20 seconds of anti knock down ( making it now 40)

You cast Balthazars Pendelum (15 energy)
Your team has another 20 seconds of anti knock down ( making it now 60)

Now when this ends you have 10 seconds of downtime.

So your infinite chain has ended at 1 minute.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

This isnt even counting in the energy cost, cause i highly doubt you will be able to keep up with the energy to keep this up all the time and have energy to casts normal mesmer skills.

+1

Arcane echoing BP would be counterproductive as you have to be Mo/Me with limited energy options.
If it wasn't, you would see Mo/Me echoing Aegis in every PvP fights.

HawkofStorms · Jun 27, 2007, 05:43 PM // 17:43

I like the idea of making it like Aegis and being party wide. I mean, it IS an elite so it wouldn't be overpowered (and all the people talking about archane echoing it... do you guys even play PvP?).

Xenex does make a great point. The problem with this skill as it stands is that it is elite and still inferior to several non elite anti-kd skills (ward of stability).

Lexxor · Jun 27, 2007, 06:06 PM // 18:06

How about..

Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5...30 seconds, the next time you are the target of a condition, a hex, or a knock down attempt, that enemy is affected instead.

Now that's a Balthazar's Pendulum!

Xenex Xclame · Jun 27, 2007, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Hmm , i dunno , at least one person has said it and i agree doing that would change the whole idea of the skill, i believe it should focus around the knock down.

That being said, nice idea to throw into the pot, i still think it would suck,also what would the cost/recharge/cast time be? Those things say a lot about one skill.

tenshi_strife · Jun 27, 2007, 07:29 PM // 19:29

now thats broken lexxor lol.

anywho, im surprised how well you guys are taking to my idea O.o i just kinda threw that out there, but yea i figured that the only real way to make balth pend worth it is to make it comparable and hopefully better than ward of stability.

and i could see some smite monks running that and this bar,

[skill]Balthazar's pendulum[/skill][skill]judge's intervention[/skill][skill]divine intervention[/skill][skill]reversal of damage[/skill][skill]smite hex[/skill][skill]retribution[/skill][skill]blessed signet[/skill][skill]zealot's fire[/skill]

ret bonders ftw :P

Sli Ander · Jun 28, 2007, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Thank you guys for answering my reply, the non-elite form of echo was the one I was thinking of at the time.

@ the thread in general. My main thing against pendulum has always been knowing whom to put it on. Since I mainly henched, nobody really grabbed enough aggro to make it useful. With a good human tank, it would be good in areas with knockdown. In PvP it would be stripped before a spike and you'd have to be good enough to see whom they are about to spike anyway.

From what Xenex is showing, the trouble would be more than its worth. But I would like to see it show up more in a support role, as Glountz noted. I'm always for helping to make Smite become more useful(even if its just to back up prot or healing) and I think making this skill a bit more elite would certainly go along that route.

But that's just my two cents

Plague · Jun 28, 2007, 05:28 PM // 17:28

I never see this skill becoming useful. If you change the functionality, it just becomes Shield of Deflection or Ward of Stability, or something like that.

Increasing the damage to over 10,000 still won't make me use it, because it will continue to be a worthless skill. I wouldn't even use it if it was a non-elite. I wouldn't use it if it was a non-elite signet with an instant cast time. If it was a non-elite SKILL with no cast time, no recharge and no energy, I might consider... CONSIDER bringing this truly worthless skill. I'd rather bring charm animal at 0 BM using a level 3 crane. At least then a minion master somewhere can use its corpse, and someone will gain some use out of it.

The bottom line for the skill is that it works as a counter to hammers primarily (mostly hammer elites, as there are only 2 hammer knockdowns aside from that - one needs weakness, and both drain adrenaline). Also, some occassional and often unpredictable skills. This skill is worthless unless you know for a FACT you will be encountering players with knockdowns. How often do you know that for a fact? Well, never.

It doesn't even do any damage! And unlike Steady Stance, you can't combine this with any other skills. It's entirely dependent on whether or not your enemy feels like knocking you down. WHY is this skill an elite? You can't combine it with any other elite in the game to make it beneficial! And we've already covered how it's useless with normal skills.

I just can't pry myself from singing the praises of just how disgusting, how loathsome, abhorrant, how incredibly depressing this skill is in its very existence, and how it singes my eyes, pains me to see it in my skill list. Why did I ever unlock this skill? Oh, how I wish to roll back time!

I can't think of a way to change this skill to make it useful without it being Steady Stance, Shield of Deflection or Ward of Stability. Change it too much and even the name won't make any sense anymore.

This skill goes in the bin with Hundred Blades. Ship it to Abudabbi, and get it out of my sight. And drag the man that invented it out into the street and shoot him.

Okay, maybe it's not THAT bad.

Plague · Jun 28, 2007, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Idea:

Balthazar's Pendulum
10 energy
1 Cast Time
40 second recharge
For 5...17...21 seconds, all party members are enchanted with Balthazar's Pendulum. Players enchanted with Balthazar's Pendulum cannot take damage from attacks and skills that cause knockdown, and when they would be knocked down by a foe, that foe is knocked down instead for 3 seconds, and Balthazar's Pendulum ends.

tenshi_strife · Jun 28, 2007, 06:17 PM // 18:17

wow plague lol, also first hundred blades is actually not a bad skill, you can get like 30 hits off with one skill if you use it right, and second there are a whole lot of knockdown, you just happen to look at wars first, what about eles, Meteor Shower, Earthquake, Meteor.... now i dont know if balths pendulum would actually knock down the ele, but a party wide anti knockdown would be very useful in these situations.....

and about you idea..... preventing damage from "knock down skill" is one, dumb for this skill...... and 2 almost impossible in current coding, anet would have to go and identify every "knockdown skill" and set a marker for that just for Balthazar's pendulum. no i still say a party wide anti knockdown is best.