Curse

actionjack · Aug 26, 2006, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Good idea WasAGuest, you are describing some great battles.
But I would keep those more scripted battles as boss battles, found more in the mission and few parts of exploration area, else it still would become "norm".

I still would stress on Mixing-the-Bag and Randomization, especially in exploration area. This way, every mob spawn would be differnt, making it not easy to get by with another walkthrough, but more challenging. (and surely would help kill off some bots) Day-night mob change work along the same vain.

One problem with more special ablity mob, as well as current mobs, is that player tend to lack too much way to counter and react to them. It is due to the fact that we can not change our skills, thus you can not easily react to the situations. Everyone are stuck to one role with the build. Like in case of Troll, seeing how there are group of troll up ahead, you know you want to use fire, but of couse, you usually don't just cary arround any fire damaging skills on you. Thus it would limit all to just weapon change. (and Henchmen need to be smart enough too)

The ablity to change skills while in map (with various restrictions of couse) would partly solve that problem, but will has problem of its own. That suggestion got shutdown by the public already.

Anyhow, lots good idea on how to make mob encounter better. Would surely make it all a much funner game.

(also try not to call me Jack.... AJ is better)

WasAGuest · Aug 26, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Yea, I meant for those to be "boss battles" I described, with the AI tweaks being as something for all foes.

One thing though, counters to mob unique skills. Consider something as annoying as a "stink bug". Can you counter it releasing it's odor as it's defense in RL? If you squish it, it still stinks, if you annoy it, it's gonna stink, so we generally leave it, like a skunk alone. What about a spider and it's poisonous bite? You can stop the Maguuma spiders from "applying poison", when actually each bite (or shot in their case) should have been poisonous.
Many things in a RL enviroment can not be countered or stopped. Humans just adapt to and adjust to them. For poison, we use antidotes. For our friendly stink bug, we cover our noses or risk gagging (think make casters double spell cast times).
So all things don't always have to have a counter, just something to adapt too.
And since PvE is players vs Enviorment, going that route fully could make for much better eviromental challenges.

*makes mental note: AJ it is*

Undivine · Aug 27, 2006, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

The ablity to change skills while in map (with various restrictions of couse) would partly solve that problem, but will has problem of its own. That suggestion got shutdown by the public already.

I know the public doesn't like your idea of changing skills while in a map, but I just have to bring this up.

I used to play EverQuest. That game also had an 8 skill slot limit, however you could change your skills around at any time. Some restrictions though; you had to sit down, effectively not doing anything; you had a book in front of you, so you cannot see what's going on around you while you changed your skills; and each skill would take time to "memorize."

I know, Guild Wars isn't EverQuest, or Wow, or any other game. But really, the ability to change your skills while in a map couldn't be that harmful, could it? Even if it's by a skill-swapper NPC whome you only find standing next to shrines and only allows you to change a couple of skills, that goes a long way to making a person useful when they really don't know what to expect of an area. There is no "meta-game" in PvE; you just have to do a crapload of research on an area before you enter it for the first time, which is just plain silly.

WasAGuest · Aug 27, 2006, 02:13 PM // 14:13

On a note away from AI, skill sets and mob behavior; another way to improve challenge and entertainment would be multiple quest dungeons.

Again, using what GW already has in place, lets put those silly challenge missions to some use with some real content instead of playing pac man (Ruins) or defend the fort (Basin).

First, add something meaningful to the challenge missions. I mention something like this in another thread, but here's where this might work best, tokens or credits. Instead of score for a ladder (yawn), adding something abtainable that can't be gained else where to the challenge missions gives a real reason to go there. Each time you finish a goal in the challenge, you are given a token which, instead of a "records" guy, a merchant is in place that you redeem the tokens too for purchasable goods. More on that later.

Second, make the challenges different each time or dynamic. Before the group starts, the leader talks to the "challenge NPC" and selects from a list of goals (which can be added to through updates later for more and more easy to add content) to take on the challenge. The more one specific goal is taken, the less it pays off to prevent "farming" of specific goals. This would also mean that players will be doing different goals often to keep the rewards paying off well.

Third, it's PvE so mobs are gonna have to drop stuff. Gold, items etc need to be dropped there. No time limits, it's PvE and it's an adventure not a race to the flag holder. Therefore, goals can be to retrieve a certain item, rescue X captives, destroy X mobs, destroy boss X, etc.

Token and the pay off:
Items for these need to vary in value and cost, again the cost being only in tokens earned from the same challenge mission NPC. Items such as:

CC like items
Salvage Kits
ID Kits
Dyes
Unique Weapons, shields that can not be purchased or traded elsewhere
Unique to that challenge NPC armor skins

End thought:

Imagine Dragons Throat as this in play. Instead of just clicking Enter Mission and slaughtering dozens of Afflicted, you talk to an NPC and choose "rescue the homeless". You know from the NPC that there are five homeless hiding throughout the zone(randomly placed). The team heads off to find them and destroy any afflicted that might be in the way. After the mission is completed you are mapped out and the NPC rewards the team for how many homeless survived with tokens.
Now, as a unique reward for this challenge mission, the players can "choose" Plague Born weapons and shields and yes, even Plague Born armor to wear.
Note, this would NOT replace the plague Born item drops from the game, however, it would mean that Plague Born weapons/shield would only drop from this Challenge mission.

thoughts?

Symeon · Aug 27, 2006, 09:19 PM // 21:19

To improve the challenge of mainstream PvE, my first suggestions would be to give AI more skills, and make them understand better combos. Too often I see them spamming the same skill, or wanding for ages. Admittedly some enemies such as domination mesmers and communing ritualists have fewer skills that they can use continuously, but that means they're the ones who need the extra skill or two most.

Another idea would be to make mobs spread out more. I know this will not please runners but I dislike how they walk out from a central point, then regroup after a certain amount of time. Get them to patrol on their own while still part of the AI group, or guard a specific point by themselves. When aggroed they could run back a bit to the rest of their group, calling something (the player would see something in All chat - example: Warden of the Spirit: Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!)

Also, as someone has already mentioned, the idea of tanking in PvE needs to be toned down. Warriors should not play the same job as they do in other games. In PvP they are hardly attacked at all; in PvE with a good aggro they're being pummelled constantly. That needs to change. AI aggro needs to be modified.

That's all I can say for now. I'm sure more will pop into my head later.

WasAGuest · Aug 27, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Symeon

In PvP they are hardly attacked at all; in PvE with a good aggro they're being pummelled constantly. That needs to change. AI aggro needs to be modified.

Modified how though? This suggestion still sounds like attempting to make PvE like PvP, which does not make it more challenging, it makes it boring... not because it's PvP, but because the AI can not simulate a PvP match well at all. Zaishen Challenge for example?

Upping the AI skills and "IQ" would create more need for a warriors ability to hold aggro; however the AI will still need to be upped enough to "know" a ranger is better at plucking a caster than a warrior. So holding agrro becomes part of the challenge for the warrior... otherwise, the improved AI with improved skills would roll over the squishy targets. They are level 28's vs 20's after all and if PvP is too stay the focus of "play" in the AI, then it would be no different than opening the early game arenas to level 20s, so the match has level 12's vs 20 and calling it fun... /ponder

I still hold, the PvP ideal is limiting the PvE game far too much.

QuixotesGhost · Aug 27, 2006, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

otherwise, the improved AI with improved skills would roll over the squishy targets.

That's simply not true. I rarely ever see anyone packing any sort of shutdown in your normal pug. It's all about damage. A single necro with Shadow of Fear and Enfeeble could handle almost every aggro break you would ever get in PvE. But necros don't pack it becuase it's all about arcane echoing spiteful spirit. You just need someone packing physical shutdown to PvE. Like the things I already mentioned wards, hexes, conditions. Seriously, when is the last time you saw a ward in PvE?

For me, it was about 6 months ago. Becuase everyone knows PvE melee mobs can be shutdown completely and totally with a tank. You take such a stupidly effective method away and people adapt. You'll start seeing Wards, Trappers, Illusion Mesmers, Blinding Flash Eles, ect, people actually doing shutdown in PvE instead of focusing on how many little gold numbers they can get to pop up on the mobs clustered around the tank.

Quote:

Upping the AI skills and "IQ" would create more need for a warriors ability to hold aggro

Personally, I don't understand how PvE could ever be difficult with a warrior having the ability to hold any kind of aggro. So I'll ask you flat out, there's a question I want you to answer, WasaGuest:

How would PvE ever be difficult if the warrior can hold aggro?

I'd like to hear your ideas.

samifly · Aug 28, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

I think random, unusual mobs are key. A warrior tanks, gets the aggro of mobs. then more mobs drop in from behind him, and starts attacking the backline.

Or how about mobs that are a perfect counter to each profession, and only attack that profession. sorta like fingers of chaos (you would have to have one for each profession for balance, or some profs would never get in a pug.)

actionjack · Aug 28, 2006, 12:48 AM // 00:48

I thought it would be hard for warrior to tank group of caster/ranger mobs. Or maybe I just don't have the right built....

Well, they can always give mob some stance breaker or DoP or unblockable attacks if needed (with exisiting skills or mob skills). I don't see it as much of problem as one form os strategy.... assuming more randomize mob and vary mob AI are in place.

Randomize the mob group will make it harder to make a melee mob hunting tanker build, as you might get caster/ranger mob in the group, on random.

2ndly, with differnt mob AI, you will get mob that would react differntly. (actually I think we already have a form of this in game). Like WasAGuess (or was it Undivine?) said, mob should act like how they should.

I would make atleast 3 type:
Beserker: One that keep on attacking and chasing the nearest target no matter what.
Smart: One that would hold their ground, and focus on the weakest/most importat target, and would run if they face danger.
Coward: One that would run away when hp is low.
etc etc.

And adding to that, would also have a commanding mob of the group. So that mob will call target, and attack/pull back depend on situations. But if this commander is taken out, the rest of mob my suffer moral lost, as well as revert back to their orignal less-smart behavior.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Also adding a bit to mob set up, give some Rez skills, have more non-aggresive mob that only attack when you attack, more "call-help" mobs, see more mob that could have hate against one another, and have a Spawning next type of mob (where it will keep on spawning new mob if not destory, but those new spanw will of couse drop nothing) ... and so on.

Plix · Aug 28, 2006, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

I would make atleast 3 type:
Beserker: One that keep on attacking and chasing the nearest target no matter what.
Smart: One that would hold their ground, and focus on the weakest/most importat target, and would run if they face danger.
Coward: One that would run away when hp is low.
etc etc.

Excellent idea! Wow, did I just use an exclamation point? Regardless, this is amazing. You could also take this in another direction too. A generic group can have these types randomized, or even class oriented. Another idea would be making them creature specific. For example, Yeti could generally be Berserkers whereas "smarter" creatures, like the Dwarves, could be the Smart type, with more focus and holding their ground. There's a lot of flexibility with this idea and I honestly think if any, this should be implemented.

I also like the idea of commander. Bosses could be utilized as commanders, or even a higher level monster than the others around it. Kappas from Shing Jea Island come to mind. A single level 6 Kappa is surrounded by 2-3 level 1 Kappas, the level 6 of course, being the commander.

QuixotesGhost · Aug 28, 2006, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Quote:

I thought it would be hard for warrior to tank group of caster/ranger mobs. Or maybe I just don't have the right built....

Well tanking has a lot less to do with the way a warrior is set up and lot more to do with the way the monk is setup. If only one person is taking damage and you have a decent protection monk you will not die period. Protection magic becomes much more efficient when only a few people are taking damage and it become insanely efficient when only one person is.

actionjack · Aug 28, 2006, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Sorry for the external links, but there are two thread that was related to the Mob AI, if anyone want additional reading.

http://www.guild-hall.net/forum/show...ighlight=enemy

http://www.guild-hall.net/forum/show...ighlight=enemy

the one by salaboB is very good, and just realize that is where I pull alot of stuff from. Pirate be me...

TheLordOfBlah · Aug 28, 2006, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Heres one thing I'd enjoy:

Monster only skills unique to certain species.

I'm talking about every type of mob (am fah, afflicted, etc) need their own skill or ability (I guess afflicted explode but thats not really a skill).

The point of this is making the enemy have a slight advantage over you. Any skill you use, they can use, but not the opposite.

There are a few skills only used by certain species like:

Deafening roar
Turtle Shell
Song of the Mists (kinda I guess)
Fingers of Chaos (more specific to a zone than a creature)
Wurm Siege...
You get the point.

Bhaaltazar · Aug 28, 2006, 04:44 PM // 16:44

I read this thread and there was many good suggestions. But red line of whole thread was that PvP limits Pve too much. Everything needs to be balanced to PvP but at the end whole PvE expirience became more or less AI PvP experience and if you are not Pvp lover than it just becomes boring.

I agree with QuixotesGhost that tanking should be taken out ( or at least in some measure ). Well right now whole PvE expirience has real PvP taste with it.
As mentioned before try to get smite monk into group, Assasins, Mesmers and so on. These classes just ruin the cookie team builds that you are supposed to have in a group in missions and such. There is no real freedom of playing.. especialy if u want to experience whole game.

Well i had my share of PvE games from Baldurs gates, NWM to Gothics and further on to WoW ( not much wow for reasons discused later on ). But i cant say that any class was more important or stronger than any other. Warrior was just as important as Elementalist or ranger or any other class. What warrior cant do thief step in for example etc.

Quote:

Plus do away with "Tanking" and OMG! Assasins have a place in PvE groups again. Seriously there are a ton of builds in PvE that you can't just run in PvE without pissing someone off becuase you might upset the precious aggro of the tank. My Oath Shot Trapper is a prime example. Think of Beastmasters for Christ's Sake! An entire Ranger attribute line!

That would be probably the best thing to do. After that all from the above would kick in from the wards to assasins to beastmastery and smite monks etc.. Prot monk wouldnt be the only protector in the team.

Quote:

Here are some list...

- More Randomize Mob and Events
- Less Mob (too many make it boring), but more Interactive and Interesting
- More Rewards to "special deeds", like in-map power ups
- More Immersing and Interactive Enviorment
- More repeatable exploration quest
- More Lores and RP stuff
- More Character Development
- Day&Night/Weather/Enviromental Effect

AMEN to that. If we want PvE to be more PvE like than add in all/some the FRP contents into the game. Not just strip off all the cookies we had in FRPs like Lore ( items with lore that u find on mobs ( like in baldurs gate where u knew the history of certain weapon or armor ).

Less mob: They say less is more ( to many same mobs over and over? ) Quantity is not important, but the quality is!

Rewards: OK i must admit that i finished only the quests i needed for experiences ( after lvl 20 I realy didnt have any reason or motivation to.. ) I dont know how can u call few XP points and few golds a reward?
Well how about there would be armor pieces or weapons u get for certain quests u finish ( special looking maybe with certain resistances depending in what kind of mobs u were fighting or what area were u in ). Maybe whole set would add up to the health or energy etc...? just an example it can be something completly different as long it is interesting either for selling or usage.

Character development:
Well there is almost no real FRP Character development ( u earn skill points invest them in and thats it.. change em on occasion ). OK we go titles but what is real purpose of that titles. What about when u earn Treasure hunter titles u get better % chance of magic drops? Or Exploration u have better chance for some special encounter and so on.. u get the point.
You discused some special bug behavior ( like using poison, disease... ) Well I belive alchemist would come handy here with some antidotes ( since character skill bar is limited to 8 skill slots only it might spare you a purge condition slot for something else ). Some other speciall Profesion/crafter would be welcome here.

Night/Day... During the night u could have better chance to sneak around ( mobs would have lower range of vision but would hear better? )

Mob behaviour:
AJ made some good suggestions about mobs ( trolls ), bugs... Well bugs should act like bugs and isects like insects.. When u encounter them they should act with insect AI ( like ants... there r many but weak.. u cant expect the bug to cast on you humanioid spells cmon.. )

one more thing about crafters:
There r many crafters who make the same armors. How about armors where u hunt special creature ( in BG Ankh shell to make light armor with good def. and it looked great also ). I would like to see some special cookies not just grind based armor ( 250 ectoes, shards, whatever for certain armor ) It feels like industrial manufacture of armors. And because of that grinding kicks in.. and not even interesting but boring grinding... over and over untill u loose the interest to play againg for a week or so. Id like to so more interaction with surroundings in explorable areas, not just kill your way through or run x to y. Give me the reason i would like to come back to certain areas for some other purposes than just finishing missions.

Here are just few examples i think would implement PvE. Well nothing new really. Most of them i have seen in other PvE games but some games realy have too much of them. As i stated before Less is more and quality is over quantity. Well i realy miss many of real PvE sugars in GW and i hope we will see some of them in future.
I just want to experience the game with every proffesion but not like watcing the same movie over and over again.. We should have something like class specific ( good example of this is lets say Gothic ) i played it 3 times and each time it was different experience. I hope GW wont turn into "PvP" oriented PvE like Factions.
Let PvE and PvP in GW be totally separated and dont try to join them in same package, because PvE and PvP are totally different worlds.

WasAGuest · Aug 28, 2006, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Sorry for the late answer; connection to the net has been iffy on my end today.

Anyway; in answer to taking away tanking and making PvE more difficult. There's no "flat" answer to this, as the answer comes from:

Are we refering to the sad state PvE is in now? If so, then yea, tanking makes it easy. A tank holds or body blocks the dumb AI and SS wipes them out. We've covered that already.
Or are we talking about improved AI that can tell a difference whether it is in danger or not. Where human "AI" knows before hand that a monk needs to go down first? or a healer in general for that matter.
Removing tanking as it were is a band aid fix for the poor AI and poor state of mobs in PvE now. I'm speaking about fixing and improving the AI's abilities and skill knowledge to not only make tanking a must, but also create situations where the tank is not only the damage sponge, but also ends up relying on not just a monk, but all group members.
I keep seeing "nerfs" as the answer to fixing PvE. Don't nerf a class to add challenge, add to the mobs to add challenge and give the players the ability to adapt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baaltazar

Mob behaviour:
AJ made some good suggestions about mobs ( trolls ), bugs... Well bugs should act like bugs and isects like insects.. When u encounter them they should act with insect AI ( like ants... there r many but weak.. u cant expect the bug to cast on you humanioid spells cmon.. )

That was me, but still, PvE needs to move away from making all foes come in balanced groups. Other wise they do act like "human" class characters.

I also completely agree with you on seperating PvE and PvP. They do not mix well at all, and are cramping each other's style.

An exmaple using improved AI with a tank please note, in my idea of improved AI, the mobs are superior to players for the following reasons: The players are in the mobs natural enviroment and mobs are given natural abilities not available to the players - how many humans do we know that can growl and uses claws to defend themselves with - minus sarcastic answers:

Group comes across a group of Wardens. The wardens engage the players. The wardens, being semi-humanoid understand the basic "healing" and "nuke" threat. They also understand that the player charging at them wearing thick armor is a threat to their healer. The warden warriors engage the player warrior just as the player warrior does the same. Warriors on both sides "taunt" (a skill that could be made to "lock" a foes target from changing for X seconds). Now the player warrior and one warden warrior is locked into melee. The other warden warrior "knows" this (improved AI - just as the dragon moss will have one cast blurred vision while the others cast arc lightning) and breaks off from the player warrior to chase down the player monk. The warden rangers have already started to fire at the monk and "nukers".
Other classes on the players side could include an assassin that shadowsteps to engage the wardens rit, or a mesmer using interupts... the list could go on.

See the Chkkr example above in how the "bug" AI could react to the player group.

Keeping tanking in, with these examples does not make them easier, but gives the warrior a task of protection from at least one mob. However, by removing tanking in general means making the warrior less useful of turns it into nothing more than a must take axe spiker, or knock down hammer hitter. If, Anet would go about making the mob understand that doing 10 damage to a target is not so great, and then make that same mob change targets to do more damage, we would have a great solution with a "need" for a warriors' skill in tanking and aggro control.

The basic idea is, to make the AI understand a threat and react given some delay to make them seem alive and not super human; while adding skills and abilities that make them unique. Remember also, that the AI still does not understand a lava font with 0 damage is not hurting it, yet it still runs away.

Lastly, and maybe it's just me. But I don't see anything good coming about taking tanking out. As you said, I see lots of "shut downs" and ward users popping up. At the same time I see lots of that in PvP when I watch the observer mode, it doesn't look fun, it doesn't look enjoyable and it looks like a very boring swing and miss battle where the combat lasts far to long to be entertaining.
EQ had (has maybe, haven't played in years) battles that lasted a good long while and required some really good crowd control from enchanters and aggro control from the tanks. Those battles were anything but easy. Maybe then, powering up the Mobs to extreme amounts of health and adding new skills of "lock down" or "shut down" to take one at a time is what many players are wanting... a guess on my part...?

Anyway, hopefull I explained that well enough. If not, let me know.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuixotesGhost

That's simply not true. I rarely ever see anyone packing any sort of shutdown in your normal pug. It's all about damage.

I'm confused by this comment. I said with Improved AI; which we do not have yet. You state it's not true as you rarely see anyone packing... of course you don't see that now as we do not have improved AI.

actionjack · Aug 28, 2006, 07:37 PM // 19:37

I think should seperate this spotlight concept, ideas to improve to PvE are just too many. Maybe should re-lable this sticky to focus on the topic of improving mob?

Anyhow, the bug-like-bug was WasAGuest, and troll was from salaboB, so give credit to them.

Anyhow.. maybe I will bump few of my other threads later. I still enjoy my Journal into New Land...

frickett · Aug 28, 2006, 08:12 PM // 20:12

I like the idea of fewer, but more interesting, more intellegent AI. What about giving some of the mobs secondary professions? And not allowing humanoid mobs to be over level 20. I understand how a lot of people seem to think that PVE is too easy. However since I am still trying to get masters from vizunah on my necro, I cant think of anything else that might make it better. Masters for Vizunah is tough. I don't want the rest of the missions to be this hard.

Undivine · Aug 29, 2006, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

I think should seperate this spotlight concept, ideas to improve to PvE are just too many. Maybe should re-lable this sticky to focus on the topic of improving mob?

Well, I stand by the topic. I like how it is developing, but really, challenge in PvE doesn't have to be just about mobs. I think if we only focused on the mobs, this topic would eventually become stale too quickly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bhaaltazar

one more thing about crafters:
There r many crafters who make the same armors. How about armors where u hunt special creature ( in BG Ankh shell to make light armor with good def. and it looked great also ). I would like to see some special cookies not just grind based armor ( 250 ectoes, shards, whatever for certain armor ) It feels like industrial manufacture of armors. And because of that grinding kicks in.. and not even interesting but boring grinding... over and over untill u loose the interest to play againg for a week or so. Id like to so more interaction with surroundings in explorable areas, not just kill your way through or run x to y. Give me the reason i would like to come back to certain areas for some other purposes than just finishing missions.

I really like this idea. That was one fun thing about Baldur's Gate, which was one of the best RPGs I've ever played.

This approach to equipment is not dissimilar to what EverQuest had with its "Epic Weapons." The gist of it: every class had an epic weapon, which was pretty much the ultimate weapon one could have for their class. To get these weapons it would take you weeks. You had to hunt down monster A in this continent, learn trade skill X and craft item B from rare ingredients S and T, do quest P and turn in for reward Q, so on so forth and gather all these components and finally turn them in for your reward. It wasn't farming for hundreds of ectos. It wasn't farming for gold to buy the proper materials. You just had to collect and aquire things from various sources, which essentially meant you had to go on various adventures.

I think GW would be immensely more interesting if armor (or even collectors items or greens, or better yet, all equipment) were aquired in this fashion, though on a smaller scale. The very idea of the collectors suggests farming. The very idea of Obsidian Armour just screams farming. I would far rather be rewarded for accomplishing various tasks, than just the same task over and over again.

For example: say there's this green recurve bow I want that's just perfect for my quickshot build. To get it I have to talk to an NPC who needs 3 things to craft it for me. 1 of those things I get as a reward for reaching a certain score in Altruum Ruins. Another I get as a drop from a boss in Melandru's Hope. And the final piece I get as a reward from doing the Wardens On The March quest. Throw in a common feather for good measure and a couple planks of wood and he'll make a nice bow for me.

It would probably be even more interesting when you consider all the different locales you can quest in on Tyria. Collect something from Sorrow's Furnace while you're doing the slave quest, get a special kind of wood which is simply lying on the ground in the middle of The Falls in Maguuma Jungle, etc. In fact, they can even make it kind of a riddle. "Collect the dust of the fallen innocent." So off you go to get Althea's Ashes. And this way they can encourage people to actually visit and do these things so we have more than those sodding "LFG 5 man Oro farm" people in the war camp.

That would make it far less bland.

Bhaaltazar · Aug 29, 2006, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undivine

For example: say there's this green recurve bow I want that's just perfect for my quickshot build. To get it I have to talk to an NPC who needs 3 things to craft it for me. 1 of those things I get as a reward for reaching a certain score in Altruum Ruins. Another I get as a drop from a boss in Melandru's Hope. And the final piece I get as a reward from doing the Wardens On The March quest. Throw in a common feather for good measure and a couple planks of wood and he'll make a nice bow for me.

It would probably be even more interesting when you consider all the different locales you can quest in on Tyria. Collect something from Sorrow's Furnace while you're doing the slave quest, get a special kind of wood which is simply lying on the ground in the middle of The Falls in Maguuma Jungle, etc. In fact, they can even make it kind of a riddle. "Collect the dust of the fallen innocent." So off you go to get Althea's Ashes. And this way they can encourage people to actually visit and do these things so we have more than those sodding "LFG 5 man Oro farm" people in the war camp.

That would make it far less bland.

Here i would like to add that pieces needed for crafting ( pieces from bosses ) shouldnt be tradable and u could obtain them only threw quest.. Otherwise there will be farmers all over the place trading this pieces and whole thing will become stale as it is now.
I would also add that its ok if there is one serial armor for each class but others pieces of armors should be gained like mentioned above.
I think it would bring u back to certain areas to explore em more and not like at the momeent where game is based on linear way - rush to the end scenario. And i dont think with quest and tasks like this there wouldnt be so many abandoned and empty outposts.

Quote:

Originaly posted by actionjack
Anyhow, the bug-like-bug was WasAGuest, and troll was from salaboB, so give credit to them.

I apologize I gave credit to wrong person. AJ cleared that up so there should be no confusion now.

2 more cents about char. developing:

Right now trade is big issue in GW.. unbalanced economy, spamming allover the channels etc... I think good implementation in chaacter development would be Perks..
Dunno how many of u played Fallout ( 1,2 ) but there you could develope certain perks and skills.. one hander, barter, sniper, sneak, melee combat...
I think some of this we could implement in GW char development like Barter to get better price with merchants so auction houses really wouldnt be needed especialy if merchants would give u better prices and u could even barter for even better ones.

Well ofcourse we could use other perks like that as well ( 2 handed weapons( bows, hammers, Scyth ), critical dmg ( with asasins ), finesse, and some other original perks for other characters.

Your thoughts?

around · Aug 29, 2006, 12:36 PM // 12:36

For fear of offending all the PvE'ers in this game:

Make PvE interesting by throwing it away completely. Make advancing through the storyline happen only after you beat another human team. Similarly, make PvP count towards PvE (i.e trading Balthazar faction for money) and vice versa.