Curse

Master Ketsu · Aug 02, 2007, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Ive been thinking about the mesmer line and a few skills that could use to give it more options. Currently Mesmers have kind of been getting "Nerfed by neglect" In that Necro curses are constantly getting more love ( GW:EN is going to make necro curses even more versatile in taking down casters, warriors, and the like )

So here are a few ideas. I really didnt take very long to think too hard on balance, so feel free to rip them apart. Non-constructive criticism ( AKA "Lol that skill sukz n00b /uninstal nao ) will be ignored.

Comments in I

DOMINATION:

[ELITE]Psionic Gaze
Cost: 5e
Time: 2S
Recharge: 15S
Elite Spell: Target foe takes 15..40..45 chaos damage. You Gain 1...3..4 energy for each mesmer hex on that foe. ( Maximum 15 energy )
I thought it would be interesting for mesmers to have a way to manage energy without inspiration magic. Most of the other classes are gaining versatility with e-management being added to differant attributes, but the mesmer has been largely unloved in this movement.

TimeShock
Cost: 10e
Time: 2S
Recharge: 15S
Hex spell: For 2...5..7 seconds target hexed foe moves 50% faster. When Timeshock ends, that foe returns to the location where they were first hexed with timeshock and knocked down.
Two things guild wars needs more of: a way to affect your foes movement in a way differant then just stopping them, and 2: Skills that force your oppenent to make split more second decisions.

[ELITE] Epilepsy
Cost: 5e
Time: 2S
Recharge: 18S
Elite Hex spell: For 15 Seconds, One random skill skill on target hexed foe is disabled for 3 seconds every 9...6..5 seconds.
I admit this might be OP in some cases, but it would be hilarious...

Madness
Cost: 10
Time: 2
Recharge: 15
Hex spell: for 1.2..3 seconds, whenever target hexed foe attacks, all hexes on that foe other then madness are refreshed.
Sins who attack through Spirit of failure and reckless haste need to learn some way or another...

[ELITE] Reversal of peace
Cost: 10
Time: 1
Recharge: 12
Elite Hex spell. For 6 Seconds, the next time target hexed foe is healed, that foe only gains 33% of the health benefit and takes 15...40...55 chaos damage.
An interesting hex to spike with, might be OP. Personally Ive wanted to see what will happen to the metagame if anti-healing is improved. Currently most anti healing skills are only used in gimmick builds, the idea here is to change that.

ILLUSSION:

Facade
Cost: 5
Time: 1
Recharge: 3
Hex spell: For 20 seconds, this hex does nothing. If facade is removed prematurely by an ally of target hexed foe, then your target becomes dazed for 1...2..3 seconds.
Really just an alternative to going me/n for parsitic as a Quick cover hex. Ive always thought it would be interesting to have a mesmer hex that serves only that purpose.

[ELITE] Venom
Cost: 10
Time: 2
Recharge: 20
Elite Hex spell: For 30 Seconds, target hexed foe Randomly suffers from Bleeding, weakness, deep wound, or blindness for 1...7..9 seconds, every 10 seconds.
May add more to fragspike, but mainly just an interesting alternative to pressurebuilds.

Ping
Cost: 5
Time: 1
Recharge: 8
Spell: Target foe and all adjacent foes Take 2...18..25 Chaos damage. If this spell damages a foe who is sufering from at least two condition's, you gain 5 energy and ping recharges instantly.
the idea here would be more for PvE.

Flash of midnight
Cost: 15
Time: 1/4
Recharge: 12
Spell: All enemy skills and spells being cast on target other ally are interrupted. Each foe interrupted this way becomes blinded for 1..6..8 seconds. All your other spells are disabled for 5 seconds.
Needs moar anti-spike

INSPIRATION:

[ELITE] Mug Enchantment
Cost: 5e
Time: 1/4
Recharge: 10
Elite spell. If target foe is casting an enchantment spell, that foe is interrupted and You become enchanted with mug enchantment and gain +8 Health regeneration and +30 Armor for 2....13..15 seconds.
Opposition to SOR

Signet of hexes:
Time: 2
Recharge: 25
Signet. Gain 3 energy for each Recharging hex spell.
( Maximum 1...10..15 energy )
Really just trying to add more options for emanagement to the mesmer line...that dont fail

Inspired condition:
Cost: 5
Time: 1
Recharge: 20
Spell. Remove a condition from target ally and gain 1..7...10 energy. For 20 Seconds, your next spell that targets a foe inflicts weakness for 1..7...10 seconds.
The last inspired..lolz.

NO ATTRIBUTE:

Contemplation of insanity:
Cost: 10
Time: 1/2
Recharge: 15
Spell: One random recharging spell is instantly recharged. This spell fails if you have less then 2 spells recharging.
The reason for making it conditional is so people cant just have one spell ( the one they want ) recharged

lyra_song · Aug 02, 2007, 04:29 AM // 04:29

I really like flash of midnight but it seems weird having a "target ally" spell on a mesmer

Winterclaw · Aug 02, 2007, 04:59 AM // 04:59

It'd also be trouble timing it since you can't key in on enemy mages easily. It'd work better as an enchantment like SoJ.

Overall, I think your ideas are way too overpowered to be used as is.

nrvllrgrs · Aug 02, 2007, 09:29 PM // 21:29

I would like to see Fast Casting as a useful skill. I am well aware that people have always complained about Fast Casting as an attribute where extra points end up, unlike Strength or Energy Storage. But I feel that the issue needs to be readdressed because Fast Casting is the only attribute that isn't displayed in the GW:EN Skill Sneak Peak.

Perhaps it could provide a percent chance to reduce recharge time or provide extra pips of energy regeneration (especially now that GW2 stops future professions in GW). At least something.

Xenex Xclame · Aug 03, 2007, 12:46 AM // 00:46

DOMINATION:

[ELITE]Psionic Gaze
Cost: 5e
Time: 2S
Recharge: 15S
Elite Spell: Target foe takes 25...75..82 chaos damage. You Gain 1...3..4 energy for each mesmer hex on that foe. ( Maximum 15 energy )

There aren't that many direct damage skills on mesmer class , we have Energy burn and Energy Surge , both which are somewhat conditional and we have Spiritual pain and Unnatural signet,Each of them does 80 damge ( the latter 2 do 79) so the damage is ok,Needs to cost 10 energy and the recharge should be put at 20/30 seconds

TimeShock
Cost: 10e
Time: 1S
Recharge: 15S
Hex spell: For 2...5..7 seconds target hexed foe moves 50% faster. When Timeshock ends, that foe returns to the location where they were first hexed with timeshock and knocked down.
First of all this shouldn't be a skill for mesmer , i mean mesmers dont teleport stuff, necros can teleport to corpses,rits can teleport spirits and sins and shadow step but not a mesmer,besides that I think having both knockd down and teleport to previous position might be too much, i think it should do either one or the other, but then maybe add something else to it, like a small damage or small energy loss.

[ELITE] Epilepsy
Cost: 5e
Time: 2S
Recharge: 18S
Elite Hex spell: For 5...12..16 Seconds, One random skill skill on target hexed foe is disabled for 2 seconds every 2 seconds.
This one is way too crazy, i know there is a chance of the same skill being disabled each time but still,it should last a shorter time, and have a higher recharge maybe last 10 and recharge 20/30, but it can also change to something like last 15 seconds and it disables one skill every 5 seconds for 2 seconds,but still with a 30 second recharge at least

Madness
Cost: 10
Time: 2
Recharge: 10
Hex spell: for 1...4.5 seconds, whenever target hexed foe attacks, all hexes on that foe other then madness are refreshed.
Thats 1..4..5 right? ok one skill Mantra of recovery.This makes this skill have a 100% upkeep,The recharge should be raised to 30+the time it last is ok since thats maybe what? 3 attacks without a IAS

[ELITE] Reversal of peace
Cost: 10
Time: 3/4
Recharge: 12
Elite Hex spell. For 6 Seconds, the next time target hexed foe is healed, that foe only gains 25% of the health benefit and takes 15...40...75 chaos damage.
This makes me think of diversion/shame, keeping that in mind I'd make it same as diversion on the cost/cast/recharge so 10/3/12 and change it to this for 6 seconds the next time target foe is the target of a friendly spell or enchantment that skill fails.

It basicly makes the infuse that was suppose to save the target fail and they don't get the benefit,meaning the monks have to cast again to save the target if he is still alive

ILLUSSION:

Facade
Cost: 5
Time: 1
Recharge: 3
Hex spell: For 20 seconds, this hex does nothing. If facade ends prematurally, then target hexed foe becomes dazed for 1...2...4 seconds.
I actually like this one, but the cost/recharge is way too low, remember this is adding daze, one of the most devastating conditions in the game and just think of this +drain delusion

[ELITE] Venom
Cost: 10
Time: 2
Recharge: 20
Elite Hex spell: For 30 Seconds, target hexed foe suffers from a random condition for 1...5..8 seconds, every 4 seconds.
I belive the only 2 conditions mesmers can inflict ( without using other class skills) are deep wound and blindness and i believe there is good reason for that, they are already godly on hexes , no need to make them good with conditions too

Ping
Cost: 5
Time: 1
Recharge: 8
Spell: Target foe and all adjacent foes Take 2...18..25 Chaos damage. If this spell damages a foe who is sufering from at least two condition's, you gain 5 energy and ping recharges instantly.
I see your trying to make a Accumulated Pain that gives energy but combined with altered version of Spiritual Pain,now im not really sure how to help this one :|, first of all it doesn't need a "energy and ping recharges instantly" the recharge is only 8 seconds, you only get that for skills with long recharge,now this skill is pretty weak, its not a damage skill but its not a energy management skill either ,so by trying to be both it fails at both.

Flash of midnight
Cost: 15
Time: 1/4
Recharge: 12
Spell: All enemy skills and spells being cast on target other ally are interrupted. Each foe interrupted this way becomes blinded for 1..6..8 seconds.
Sorry, way to broken, cant even fix it.

INSPIRATION:

[ELITE] Mug Enchantment
Cost: 5e
Time: 1/4
Recharge: 10
Elite spell. Target foe's action is interupted. If that foe was casting an enchantment spell, You Become enchanted with mug enchantment and gain +10 Health regeneration and +40 Armor for 2....13..15 seconds.

Ok sure , it's conditional cause it has to be an enchantment spell,BUT and its a big but, its a interrupt that interrupts anything , including a action, please look at the mesmer interupts and tell me this isn't broken and the benefit continues it only costs 5 energy, again look at the interrupts and benefits still continue if you manage to interupt a enchantment you get a buffed shield of regen.

Now read all that and tell me how this skill can work?

Signet of hexes:
Time: 2
Recharge: 25
Signet. Gain 3 energy for each Recharging hex spell.
( Maximum 1...10..15 energy )
Bleh, they should just fix Inspiration , thats all.

Inspired condition:
Cost: 5
Time: 1
Recharge: 20
Spell. Remove a condition from target ally and gain 1..7...10 energy. For 20 Seconds, your next spell that targets a foe inflicts weakness for 1..7...10 seconds.
Mesmers shouldn't be able to remove conditions

NO ATTRIBUTE:

Contemplation of insanity:
Cost: 10
Time: 1/2
Recharge: 15
Spell: One random recharging spell is instantly recharged. This spell fails if you have less then 2 spells recharging.
Not sure how i feel about this one,but one thing why does it have a 1/4 cast? i mean it should just be normal at 2 seconds

Ow btw when looking at the cast times of your skills you should really remember that mesmer have Fast Casting and that any skill should keep that in mind,even know that the skill might suck at 0 FC.

zling · Aug 03, 2007, 01:18 AM // 01:18

I think you're trying to copy monk spells into the mesmer profession with their anti effects. and mix up the mesmer's arsenal with secondary profession skills disguised as primary skills.
some of ur ideas might be good but overall I dont like those new skills

Master Ketsu · Aug 03, 2007, 04:36 PM // 16:36

I just took a look at other mesmer skill to see how broken they were. To be honest these skills are intentionally broken since they are concept skills, the idea being that its better to tone something down rather then making something that fails.

The skills I didnt change:

Timeshock: theirs nothing wrong with adding planar chaos to guild wars. It didnt break MTG's meta, it likely wouldn't break GW. Theirs no unwritten rule that says mesmers cant cause a teleport, and this teleport is differant in that it doesnt affect you, but your foe. As long as its not broken, theirs not much wrong with it.

Inspired condition: Same reason as timeshock. Mesmers do not magically become broken if they have one condition removal every 20 seconds. As long as it fits in with inspiration magic's idea, I dont see any problem with it.

Ping: I didnt really expect people to see what this skill is for. You would probobly have to try it to see what it's purpose is.

SIgnet of hexes: Meh, no differant from the other energy signets.

Xenex Xclame · Aug 03, 2007, 05:03 PM // 17:03

So if i make a ranger skill like this :

Natures Gift :
15/.75/3
Natures gift
Skill. Heal target other ally for 47...170..200 Health
Wilderness Survival.

You are saying this skill is ok?

Master Ketsu · Aug 03, 2007, 06:22 PM // 18:22

No, because it doesnt fit with ranger line. The idea of planer chaos ( look it up if you dont understand ) Is to mold classes together with skills they already slightly share.

the idea for inspired condition is not a far cry. It still fits in with the general idea of inspiration magic, and turning an enemies own skill against them / reversing an enemies strategy against themselves is the general mesmer idea.

Another requirement for molding is that the part of the skills that borrows from another class must be inferior. IC = 1 condition every 20 seconds ? Laughable.
Timeshock is hardly as controllable as sin teleports, and fits more in with mesmers ability to affect movement. You not teleporting yourself, your teleporting an enemy. Currently no class can do that.

Your example however, has nothing to do with what rangers currently do. Lets use anets example of granting a ranger a way to heal allies. ( If you hadn't noticed, anet already added PC skills to classes when they were first made )

[skill]healing spring[/skill]

Or even with factions

[skill]heal as one[/skill] Was giving rangers a straight heal they didnt have before.

Healing spring is basically a monk skill, however it works like a trap, and the healing is generally inferior to monking, making it fit with the ranger line.

Natures gift as you have it's only trace back to ranger line is that is a skill not a spell...not nearly enough.

If you made it a touch skill, and made it heal for 25....50 health for each ranger spirit in range, then it might make a little more sense since touch skills are somewahat more associated with rangers, and the heal is actually conditional on something that has to do with rangers.

Xenex Xclame · Aug 03, 2007, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

No, because it doesnt fit with ranger line.

Isn't that the same thing i said about the teleport skill and the condition skill?

Im trying to show you why mesmers shouldn't be able to inflict conditions

Mesmer simply should not have all conditions available to them , because they already have great hexes, poison is for rangers and assassins , bleeding is for any combat class, the only reason they have blind is because its defense,its not a offensive condition, its defense,cripple is again for any combat class,dazed is a combat class condition and weakness is again a defensive condition.Deep wound which is a the only offensive condition that mesmers have and mesmers are the only casters that can cause this.

So it should remain like that , the only conditions mesmers should be able to cast are defensive conditions, blind,weakness and with work they should be able to apply deep wound.

The reason they don't have daze or cripple is because they already have the hexes to do what those 2 conditions do.

Ow btw how is 9 seconds of burning laughable?
Most burning skills ( which is what elementalist are suppose to do) last for 3 to 5 seconds, the only ones that last longer are :

Burning speed, which last 9 seconds, but has the huge drawback of making you go on fire for 5 seconds too.

Bed of Coals , which lasts 8 seconds but which has the condition that the foe has to be knocked down AND its only near where the spell was cast, its not target foe.

Mind Burn , lasts 7 seconds but you have to have more energy then the foe and the skill causes exhaustion.

@ Timeshock, this simply cant work the teleport port has to go completely, You do know that knock down is a very important thing right?

Lets try something.

Timeshock 10/2/20 : for 2...5..7 seconds target foe moves 50% faster ,whenever target strikes a foe they take 17...45 damage.If this hex lasts its full duration target foe is knocked down. ( not sure how to balance it against empathy)

Edit : ps :The only touch skills ranger have is throw dirt, dont confuse touch rangers with rangers.

Master Ketsu · Aug 03, 2007, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Im trying to show you why mesmers shouldn't be able to inflict conditions

Mesmer simply should not have all conditions available to them , because they already have great hexes, poison is for rangers and assassins , bleeding is for any combat class, the only reason they have blind is because its defense,its not a offensive condition, its defense,cripple is again for any combat class,dazed is a combat class condition and weakness is again a defensive condition.Deep wound which is a the only offensive condition that mesmers have and mesmers are the only casters that can cause this.

Necromancers also have great hexes, self condition removal, great conditions, and great self heals. Your point ?

Seems to me more like your just saying its not balanced because its never existed before AKA not canon, rather then saying its not balanced because it actually isnt balanced.

But randomly rolling dazed would be unbalanced, So i fixed venom a bit.

As for timeshock, would probobly have to agree to disagree their. Knockdown is mainly important due to the spike potential it has, but time shock is a bit difficult to control in that sense.

The touch skills fitting with ranger is more in line with the description of expertise.

Xenex Xclame · Aug 03, 2007, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Necromancers also have great hexes, self condition removal, great conditions, and great self heals. Your point ?

Point = Mesmers = Hexes,interrupts,energy gain,
Necros =Hexes ,conditions , health steal/sacrifice,minions ( and everything around minions )

And I'm saying that there is a reason why mesmers don't have access to the offensive conditions.

ockhams · Aug 03, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52

you guys are both insanely stupid (look it up if you don't understand). stop before someone gets hurt plz.

Master Ketsu · Aug 04, 2007, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by ockhams

you guys are both insanely stupid (look it up if you don't understand). stop before someone gets hurt plz.

Were just discussing game balance...the only person who has talked down to others is you.

If you have something to add, add it.

If your just going to call everyone else stupid and act condescending, gtfo and go troll somebody else's thread.

The Lurch · Aug 04, 2007, 02:06 AM // 02:06

This is pretty dumb. Just because mesmers dont inflict many conditions at this point in time, that doesnt mean skills couldnt be made to make them inflict conditions...thats like saying an assassin can only use daggers to be effective

Willow O Whisper · Aug 04, 2007, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Well at the same time it's like saying its ok for the sin to have a skill that does ranged aoe dmg+burning.

Master Ketsu · Aug 04, 2007, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willow O Whisper

Well at the same time it's like saying its ok for the sin to have a skill that does ranged aoe dmg+burning.

Grasping what makes sense and doesnt in terms of class and skill balance isnt always easy. Each idea really has to be put into thought.

Would it make sense for a ranger to have a touch skill that heals himself tied to wilderness survival ? Yes, thats the general idea of WS, and fits in with the Ranger archtype of being a jack of all trades - would probobly be trained in some form of medic skills.

Assassin Aoe burning would make no sense. It just doesnt fit the class. Assassins are supposed to be a class tied to the shadows and use trickery to spike targets and get away. Giving them some silly elementalist ranged aoe burn spell wouldn't make sense with the rest of the skills.

However it would still be fine to give Sins burning if it met the following criteria:
Its balanced with the rest of the classes skills.
It meets up with the "theme" of assassins.
It doesnt do it as well as elementalists.

That being said, something like this is an example sin skill that might make sense:

Hot Step
Cost: 5
Time: 1/4
Recharge: 20
Spell. Shadow step to target other ally. All nearby foes are set on fire for 1...3..4 seconds.