Curse

A11Eur0 · Aug 19, 2007, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by What Now

Nuker, sorry forgot lightning hammer, maelstrom, deep freeze, and so on were for nukers

my bad. I forgot that there is no need for any of those in any builds, so I might as well not bring them...yes it's beyond nuking, and yes builds work fine when attuned, no they can not all efficiently run without attunement, yes I can change those skills, then what is the point of having them in the game?

What part of "If you rely on high cost spells" do you not understand? Do you spam maelstrom? The only spam skill there would be lightning hammer.

Bring attunement and aura of resto...cast resto second so it gets stripped. You don't "need" the healing if you have good monks...but having it helps...and that's two skill slots. 6 attack spells are all that's needed...hell you can do with 4, with a glyph and rez. One big high cost spell, then a bunch of low cost spam spells that you regain the energy for by the time it's done casting.

NeonPink · Aug 19, 2007, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by What Now

Nuker, sorry forgot lightning hammer, maelstrom, deep freeze, and so on were for nukers

my bad. I forgot that there is no need for any of those in any builds, so I might as well not bring them...yes it's beyond nuking, and yes builds work fine when attuned, no they can not all efficiently run without attunement, yes I can change those skills, then what is the point of having them in the game?

Erm.. i.. fail to see how that makes sence, am i the only one that couldnt make sence of his last sentence? Oh well..
If you mean having those skills all in one bar.. no! -.-" you take one or 2 tops and learn to manage your Energy/How to play your class!!...
If you mean all Ele's should be nukers.. well, you dont need a full bar of 25 energy costing uber spells of death to be a nuker.. use your head and take spells with short cooldowns/fast cast time ect, the more spells the more damage, or have creative combo's such as the Searing Flames build *shrug* Honistly you seem to be ignoring alot of the other peoples posts that made sence and when anyone pokes holes in your argument you ignore them yet you pick holes in everone elses =/
Oh and the point of having them in game is, well, Lightening Hammer: Lovely high damage and armour ignore, good for spike air builds. Maelstrom is a good AoE that interrupts (very good against a group of casters), Deep Freeze is midly pointless but can be -very- effective on a defencive PvP/GvG team, keeping away from slowed melee player and so on so forth (also this spell doesnt cause Exhaustion last time i checked..?)
almost all the spells ANet has made can be used in some form or tactic.

Anyway Seriously now, Please post your build(s) so we can see the problem and you can explain to us whats wrong/strengthen your argument? Thankies. Love Pinky -xXx-

Darkobra · Aug 19, 2007, 10:36 PM // 22:36

My 90 energy Searing Flames elementalist has no problem playing my class properly. Attunement stripped? Glyph of Lesser Energy and Glowing Gaze until it recharges and Mark of Rodgort to make sure they keep burning. Amazing what you can do if you're smart.

MithranArkanere · Aug 19, 2007, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Bring another quickly casted skill from another attribute to cover up the attunement. Cast it when no one is around.

I would agree with making atunements 'everlasting' effects, like Illusion of weaknes. They could last until your energy goes to 0.

Kain666 · Aug 19, 2007, 11:33 PM // 23:33

i usually have my fire attunement covered up by aura of restoration...and as Darkobra said...u can spam SF easy...but ehh...at air magic skills cost a lil more:P and there's no glowing gaze

Undivine · Aug 20, 2007, 12:19 AM // 00:19

This has been brought up before in this forum, however it was so long ago that it's worth making a new thread on the subject. The skills are different now.

Personally, I always felt the attunements were a bit harsh. I mean, energy management is easy for an ele until his attunements are stripped. And even with cover enchantments, they will easily get stripped in PvE. Enchantments vanish easily in that environment. For a monk it's annoying, but you can always reapply them. An ele doesn't have that luxury.

Recently they made Glyph of Elemental Power actually useful. Now unless you're spamming flare the glyph pretty much lasts its entire duration. I'm inspired by this. I think the attunements should all be glyphs! In fact, I've always thought they should do more with glyphs. Yes, I realize when you use another glyph it would replace your attunement, but if you reduce the recharge of attunements, then what you're left with is a way to have practical attunements that cannot be stipped, but have a tactical drawback as well.

kazjun · Aug 20, 2007, 01:08 AM // 01:08

I've finished all 3 campaigns with a fire ele. Boring as, and pretty easy. And short of single target bosses with mass HP (shiro, where I used mindblast and mark of rodgort) I've never had a problem with running out of energy.

So you have to use some spaces on your bar for energy management? So what. Fire attunement, GoLE, GG. Even with attunement stripped I've never had energy problems. And I only run 9 energy storage and spam SF like crazy. And so does zhed, so does sousuke and so does Master of whispers (who has less than 50 energy, but can still spam 15 energy spells). And they all carry wards, without earth attunement. If even hero AI can manage, then I don't see the problem. And that's fire, the most spammed thing ever. Going earth or water where recharges are crazy high, you may not even need to carry an attunement. What more do you want? To spam MS?

PS. Don't leeroy in like a fool. If you stayed at the back where you belong, the chance someone targets you for enchant stripping is very low. Or carry some cheap cover enchant like most people who rely on enchants.

What Now · Aug 20, 2007, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Rend enchantments and tons of mesmer I've seen bring Inspired enchantment as well as shatter. They don't just ignore my attunement and the recharge time is well overdone.

SF when my attunements stripped, GoLE SF SF Glowing gaze, gained 10 energy, then I can only use SF and Glowing gaze until it recharges anyway, which ends up 10 energy gained for every 35-50 used. Smooth, that'll last the 45 seconds.

I'm half talking about PvP. Even in PvE if your the only one with an enchantment at times after enough combat who else will they strip. And to be honest I already use aura to cover up, I just don't like waisting slots and sometimes it not even being enough.

A lot of the posts were suggestions of skills to use, that's not what I'm on about, it's my problem with t he current attunement skill sorry. As I said this isn't about how to manage my energy.

Curse You · Aug 20, 2007, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by What Now

Ok seriously your not getting it. I've played ele for over a year and sure if I bring glyphs and enchantments and cover enchantments and waist half my energy using those I can nuke a little, but I don't see why I should waist half my build to manage my energy none the less in a way other professions can.

If you're current build isn't working, then changing it isn't a waste (that's how it's spelled btw).

Quote:

Originally Posted by What Now

Not saying it's crap saying its under powered and I'm sorry you don't pay enough attention to see people can also replace the ele with a rt/e or mo/e runner. To be honest I've seen those with +15 -1 sets to make up for any energy they didn't have since it was all about the running skill until they got into actual battle.

You can't be serious? A monk nuker? Yea, let me just go get my Meleemacer with Frenzy + Healing Signet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesusrunz

I think a person can last fighting a mob without attune, then reapply after the mob is dead.

I've done that so many times. I'll kill the group, notice my energy is a little low, then realize my attunement was stripped when the battle began.

Quote:

Originally Posted by What Now

I'm half talking about PvP. Even in PvE if your the only one with an enchantment at times after enough combat who else will they strip. And to be honest I already use aura to cover up, I just don't like waisting slots and sometimes it not even being enough.

I've done PvP on my elementalist. I only had Fire Attunement and Flame Djin's Haste. I've never had any problems.

Don't expect to defeat an opponent with a build designed to counter yours.

Undivine · Aug 20, 2007, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazjun

And that's fire, the most spammed thing ever. Going earth or water where recharges are crazy high, you may not even need to carry an attunement. What more do you want? To spam MS?

I've not really had a problem with fire magic when I lose my attunement. However, I like to play as a water ele. That line has some beefy spell costs and you can be really crippled without your attunement.

What Now · Aug 20, 2007, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

If you're current build isn't working, then changing it isn't a waste (that's how it's spelled btw).

You can't be serious? A monk nuker? Yea, let me just go get my Meleemacer with Frenzy + Healing Signet.

I've done that so many times. I'll kill the group, notice my energy is a little low, then realize my attunement was stripped when the battle began.

I've done PvP on my elementalist. I only had Fire Attunement and Flame Djin's Haste. I've never had any problems.

Don't expect to defeat an opponent with a build designed to counter yours.

Omfg....OMFG AND I'M NOT THE ONE LISTENING! I KNOW THAT IT'S ALL HAPPENED TO ME BEFORE BUT DURING EXTENDED BATTLES ENERGY DOES RUN OUT AND IF YOURS NEVER HAS THEN I DON'T KNOW WHAT PROFESSION YOUR PLAYING.

Seriously can you people please listen. I am not making this topic to complain about energy management or ask for help I'm doing so because I disapprove with the attunement system and the minimal benefits of energy storage and I am suggesting an improvement.

Simple enough?

Btw when you say counter to my build, you mean any one with any enchantment removal, the extremes being able to shut me down completely or the worse ones slowly degenerating my energy avoiding? Wow if you think about it that way...dervish...mesmer...assassins...necros...are all counters...and all the other professions only have to bother interrupting key skills. Yes I exaggerated the last part dont rant taking it seriously it's to get a point across.

MagmaRed · Aug 20, 2007, 02:47 AM // 02:47

I still do not know what your problem is with Attunements. Please post your build so I can understand what causes you problems.

PLEASE POST YOUR BUILD!

I do not see any reason an Attunement cannot be used, maintained, and appreciated. Granted, there WILL be times it will get removed. But there are ways to prevent that (most of the time) and deal with it. I would like to see the build you use so I can understand why an Attunement is not helping you.

PLEASE POST YOUR BUILD!

What Now · Aug 20, 2007, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

I still do not know what your problem is with Attunements. Please post your build so I can understand what causes you problems.

PLEASE POST YOUR BUILD!

I do not see any reason an Attunement cannot be used, maintained, and appreciated. Granted, there WILL be times it will get removed. But there are ways to prevent that (most of the time) and deal with it. I would like to see the build you use so I can understand why an Attunement is not helping you.

PLEASE POST YOUR BUILD!

Problem is strips and interrupts, and I play in PvP mostly now.

Here is the PvE one.

Mark of rodgort, fireball, searing flames, glowing gaze, glyph of lesser energy, fire attunement, aura of restoration, res.

Even this:

Blinding surge, lightning orb, lightning javelin, gale, air attunement, aura of restoration, glyph of lesser energy, res.

Runs out.

Once again my problem is that they when they are stripped, EVEN THROUGH THE COVER ENCHANTMENT, or simply interrupted unexpectedly, you have to wait ages for them to come back, and until then a good bit of your energy management is gone. Once that is the case it has a huge recharge time and you just waisted 10 energy, gg.

Not only that but any profession can run attunement to manage energy and such, I want energy storage to have some role in this, like it does in other energy management skills, so it can not be abused by others. Or at least reduce the recharge time if you insist on waisting a slot that can easily be countered be my guest.

Just want it more manageable and less dependable or counterable.

What Now · Aug 20, 2007, 03:23 AM // 03:23

You know what? Just forget it, leave attunement alone and keep everything the same for all I care it's not worth this pointless debate. Just waisting my time if you people disagree and no one listens oh well I just though it would make things better because I know tons of people who refuse to play ele because attunement became a bother to them. Seems like some people still don't get my point at all either way so no loss in giving up, I tried.

Seems like some people only don't mind it or disapprove because it's how its always been and it's workable, sorry for being one of the people who want better.

A11Eur0 · Aug 20, 2007, 06:44 AM // 06:44

1: It's spelled "waste"
2: you have a ton of people saying that they have no problems with their builds
3: If you are taking part in extended battles, you're not a good enough nuker.
4: stop whining.

MagmaRed · Aug 20, 2007, 06:00 PM // 18:00

There are only a few skills that will remove MULTIPLE enchantments. I'd be willing to say you see them in PvP only occassionally. Aura of Restoration can only be interrupted by luck, or prevented with a skill like Shame. Fast recharge on it means if it gets stripped/shattered/etc. it can be reapplied before the Attunement is removed. 5 Energy and 1/4 second cast is not a problem for an Ele.

If it is removed, and you have to wait for the recharge, you have GoLE on your bar. With high energy and GoLE, you should not have problems unless the fight goes on a LONG time, and you don't use the Glyph. Although it won't manage your energy by itself, Glowing Gaze will help.

I see no reason to make Attunements Energy Storage based. Big deal if another class can make use of the Attunements. Me/E is common for Fast Casting nuking, and they rely on the Attunements. Do they do as much damage as an Ele? No, but they fill a slightly different role.

If they simply reduce the recharge time, you will end up complaining again. Since if recharges in 20 seconds (guessing at the change), it will last only 24 seconds at 12 Energy Storage (rough guess at numbers). This means you will be spending energy to recast it more frequently, using up the energy it would be saving. Plus, even a 1 second cast (instead of the current 2) means you are not dealing damage as much, as you are wasting time recasting the Attunement.

Although I wouldn't like it, the only change I would want them to make to the Attunements would be the 'Enchantment' part. If they did change these skills, I would like them to make them like the Mesmer Mantras - make them stances. Can still be removed, but not as easily, and only the Paragon from range. Plus, it would not be something that could be interrupted.

I still see no reason to change these skills. Your build has plenty of ability to manage energy. If you are unable to, you need to learn how to play the build. No, it won't work 100% of the time, but the time you have trouble should be rare, not common.

haggus71 · Aug 20, 2007, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Hmmm, having trouble with those pesky Mesmers, eh? Maybe your teammates could use some hexes and interrupts to help out the e-denial? It's a team game in PvP. You live or die by the man at your side.

Sounds like you just want to be able to counter everything and anything you want with a 1234567 build without any concern for e-management or protection. Last I remember, all professions dedicate....3, 4 slots for offense? And half of the ranger slots are Dist/Savage shot, which are more along the lines of protection for the group.

If you are having trouble with a Searing Flames build in PvE, I truly question whether Elementalist is the right profession for you. It's one of the most dominating builds in PvE. Why would it be that if E-management were such a problem?

Oh, and if you have those titles on your ele, I guess E-management isn't as much of an issue as you want us to believe.

Div · Aug 20, 2007, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by What Now

Ok seriously your not getting it. I've played ele for over a year and sure if I bring glyphs and enchantments and cover enchantments and waist half my energy using those I can nuke a little, but I don't see why I should waist half my build to manage my energy none the less in a way other professions can.

Time played =/= skill and knowledge.

Know your PvE mobs and enchantment removal, and attunement will be just fine.

On a side note, I'd like to see monks, rits, dervishes, and mesmers manage their energy without using some skill slots...

Waste half your build to manage energy? Lrn2play.

kazjun · Aug 20, 2007, 11:35 PM // 23:35

A pve SF ele should never have energy probs, certainly not to the point where you can't play if your attunement is stripped. I guess air and water would have more energy probs then earth or fire, but I doubt it's to the point that you fail if your attunement is stripped.

As for pvp, well... So what? The enemies sees you're an ele and figures you've got an enchant up an strips it? So now you can't spam spells? Cry more. Why do you think necros got their whole primary attrib reworked? Or so much para stuff got nerf batted so much? Cause they never ran out of energy. Now you want that to be put in for ele's? Air isn't for spamming for pressure. Go a warrior or derv if you want DPS.

Heimdallw32 · Aug 20, 2007, 11:49 PM // 23:49

You know, I was sympathizing with the whole "Wow I just had four enchantments stripped in less than a second by a pack of mesmer mobs" thing...till you posted a SF build as the build you're having "issues" with >_> That's the easiest build in the game to run...seriously, it takes no skill to run, and its energy management is obscene. Air, I can understand since that's a bit tricker to manage in PvE, but Air wasn't really intended for PvE anyway (mostly single target <_< That's not nuking anyway)...

Honestly? I wouldn't mind attunements having a shorter recharge, or something, but meh, I gave up trying to use them when I wandered into Nightfall and Factions, and got used to using GoLE instead. For those saying "you're in the back so why are your enchantments getting stripped", er, to cast a spell you have to move into casting range...well gee, that means you suddenly are also in casting range of your targets, too, and since the tanks don't need enchantments, they're going to see yours and cackle madly.

But, I don't use enchantments anymore in Nightfall or Factions anyway, so I dunno. >_> I'd say drop attunement recharges down to 30 seconds, not a crazy change, but handy. It's not like a Mesmer needs to keep an ele in PvP from having an attunement up to keep him from casting spells anyway.