Curse

Sanchez · Aug 19, 2007, 12:34 PM // 12:34

First off before i start my suggestion I do have some champ points about half way to r1 so im not the best gvger but for the most part i know my stuff and not just trying to desperately get a champ title.

Since it was introduced its been rather hard to obtain but some people did get it and some people didn't now the problem is it is extremely hard to get into any kind of higher level gvg (or even a lot of brand new gvg guilds) with out the champion title. With out having the champ title you therefor cant get into a position to make progress in it either.

As it is high end gvg is almost like an elite club it seems like everybody knows each other and it is extremely extremely rare to ever see a new name in it unless its a second acount.

Tons of top 200, 300, and 400 players have lots of skill but just haven't really had the opportunity to break into the next level of play. Even a rank 1000 guild beating someone shows they have some skill. However these players have nothing to reflect their skill and with out being in the elite club that is high end gvg they have very little chance of being really recognized and being able to step up to the next level.

From the perspective of a person with out champ title I think I'm a somewhat skilled gvg player and need something to reflect that. From the perspective of someone who has played some high end gvg and knows a fair amount of people I can see that due to the nature of this elite club as people quit the number decreases but no new people come in causing high end gvg in general to become a very small group that needs some new people.

I would like to propose a change that allows anyone to gain champ points but for the high rating guilds to still be rewarded by getting more and you also get more for beating better guilds.

Here would be an example.

You get 1 champion point for winning as a 1000 rating guild and an additional 0 for beating a 1000 rating guild

1 for winning as a 1000 rating guild and an additional 1 for beating a 1050 rating guild

2 for winning as a 1050 rating guild you gain 2 points and an additional 4 for beating a 1200 rating guild

4 for winning as 1200 6 for beating a 1300 guild

A cap of how many you could get would probably be implemented but you hopefully get the idea

The numbers required for each title and the current number of points in the title would be increased accordingly (similar to what Anet has suggested for the gladiator title)

A high end guild who will more likely face and beat other high end guilds than a brand new guild will get far more champ point but the r1000 still get something to reflect their skill.

The numbers I gave were just examples and are no way necessarily fair or good and most likely should be changed but just used to show how a high end guild still gets more.

If you don't like my suggestion I would like to know if people would still want some way for lower end players to gain champ points or possibly recognized through some other type of gvg title. I think something needs to be done because as is gvg if very elitist.

Aera · Aug 19, 2007, 12:45 PM // 12:45

They're going to do the same to the Gladiator title: devalue it. You need to EARN a title, not gain it.

Read: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10186372

Almost everyone is pissed off because of what they're about to do to the gladiator title; the same will happen with the champ title if that happens.

You need SKILL to gain a title, otherwise it has no value whatsoever. The proposal you did, makes the title show the amount of TIME spent, you may have one a 1000 GvGs and have like King's Champion, but still suck.

Just don't start it, nothing is wrong with a title that isn't meant for everyone.

Sanchez · Aug 19, 2007, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Its the biggest type of pvp in GW and practically excluding 999/1000 people from ever being able to really get into seems wrong imo

If you were to win 1000 matches and "suck" it would take nearly forever it would be scaled so that better players still get it way faster but a player who wants to get into it has a chance at least as is its next to impossible for nearly every gw player.

I would still concider a method similar to mine earning it but giving a way for more than that small fraction of a high end gvg community to have a way to reflect their skill

What Now · Aug 19, 2007, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Why noobify all titles, I find this one of the few titles worth showing off, simply because if you have it theres a much smaller chance you suck. I know it's hard to get and such but thats the point, not for everyone. I think it is fine the way it is.

Graphik Desine · Aug 19, 2007, 08:18 PM // 20:18

not in support of making it easier for people to get champ points.

glad points is another can of worms, as people love leaving those matches and making it a nightmare for the rest of the team. which does not tend to happen during gvg unless someone disconnects at the start. totally different animals here ._.

i have two suggestions, and you can choose to follow [the models of little imagination and/or variety] if you want champ points so bad:

A. make your own guild, get some trusty friends to join, train them, beat the tar out of everyone your guild faces, thus earning points the honorable way. lots of guilds have been successful doing it this way.

or B. if you want to farm points for your title, go and guest into guilds that earn these points all day long---but good luck making the connections...

on one hand the current system seems to favor the top so many, but on the other hand the points were meant for the highest level of [elite] gameplay, and to attain these titles actually MEANS something to those who see others' titles. it is something for people to look up to, to envy.

for the right reasons.

Deep Sea Diving · Aug 19, 2007, 10:52 PM // 22:52

You have not considered any of the repercussions…I don’t want to sound mean, but you’re very naïve.

Yes, you are right, about the highest level of GW competition being elitist anyways, but mutilating the Champ pt title isn’t going to change that…at all.

If they actually follow through with your suggestion this is what will happen: everyone and their grandmother will just make new pug guilds and farm champ points from 1000 rating on, because you get matches so quickly, and generally play against bad guilds. So, you have those elitist gvg’ers farming the bottom of the ladder, and now the bad guilds, who would otherwise be playing against other bad guilds, will now be match up against players from the top of the ladder.

Care to take a guess at what will happen next? Don’t worry about it I’ll just fill you in. Those players at the bottom of the ladder will lose more, they will cry out that people are pugging…and you know what, I think we’d be right back to where we were last December won’t we? Except instead of good players farming other good players [using pugs], good players will be farming bad players. I thought that ArenaNet gave us this shit-stain 5 ELO ladder and Automated Tournaments for a reason?

Now, I do understand that you’re thinking about this for the right reasons, but it just can’t happen…I’ll fill you in on this dirty little secret: everyone at the top of the ladder does know everyone else at the top of the ladder. Getting into a good guild is more about who you know rather than your actual skill as player. And finally, if you do not already have connections, there is a very slim chance that you will ever break into a good guild. I’m sorry but it’s simply the truth.

There is still the chance that you can break into the top 100 or whatever your ambitions are, do something like what the guys in Kinetic Fusion managed, but you’ll have to manufacture that success yourself. Easier champ points is not the answer.

FYI: Gvg is the highest form of Pvp, and the Pvp titles are difficult to obtain for a reason, in contrast to PvE, where the titles are simply grind fests. The Hero title has been butchered, and the Gladiator title is on the verge of ruins. The champion title, although already tarnished by 3 double weekends, is still the most prestigious title in guildwars.

I understand the want to open up the highest form of Pvp to PvE’ers or the not so talented crowd, but guess what; gvg is just sitting there waiting for them to dive in, but those players aren’t trying very hard to get better, instead they are on forums like this that cater to pve in hopes of making things easier. Making the Gvg exclusive title readily available is one of the stupidest idea’s I’ve heard in this already wrecked game. No offense intended.

I know that I’m a little harsh, but I’m also right, and I’d appreciate it if my post does not get touched. I think I’ve restrained myself quite well under the circumstances. I’m not calling these forums “bad” or “invalid.” Thanks.

Edit: I'd also like to add that to get a champ point it used to have been two 1500 rating guilds. [for those who didn't know :/] The champ title has already been lowered from its truly elite pedestal.

MithranArkanere · Aug 19, 2007, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Well. GW2 is comming up.
They have to make titles acquired easier, so the most hardcore palyers get them fast, get bored and move to GW2.

Aera · Aug 19, 2007, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Well. GW2 is comming up.
They have to make titles acquired easier, so the most hardcore palyers get them fast, get bored and move to GW2.

Please, that 18 months from now...

Oh, and listen to what Deep Sea Diving has to say, he's got a good way of putting things, just like he did in the glad title topic.

Nek · Aug 19, 2007, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

First off before i start my suggestion I do have some champ points about half way to r1 so im not the best gvger but for the most part i know my stuff and not just trying to desperately get a champ title.

First off, this.

Quote:

From the perspective of a person with out champ title I think I'm a somewhat skilled gvg player and need something to reflect that. From the perspective of someone who has played some high end gvg and knows a fair amount of people I can see that due to the nature of this elite club as people quit the number decreases but no new people come in causing high end gvg in general to become a very small group that needs some new people.

Then this.

Typo?

Aera · Aug 19, 2007, 11:46 PM // 23:46

having a few champpoints doesn't mean he has the title

Charlotte the Harlot · Aug 20, 2007, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Quote:

If you don't like my suggestion I would like to know if people would still want some way for lower end players to gain champ points or possibly recognized through some other type of gvg title. I think something needs to be done because as is gvg if very elitist.

Don't change champ title but a new general gvg title like you suggested I wouldn't mind, would show that they know something I guess.

Act X · Aug 20, 2007, 01:57 AM // 01:57

GvG is something that you need to prove yourself in.

If you want to get champ points just make a guild that doesnt suck and do ATs, its not hard to get into champ range, XoO did it in 10 days.

Champ points are hard to get because they used to actually mean something. You cant just get lucky and win one [like in RA/TA/HA] you actually have to earn your rating to get the points.

People sell top 100 / champ range guilds for people to smurf in. Champ points are already being farmed by top players with imba builds, they dont need to be any easier to aquire.

Rewarding a r1000 guild is like giving tom cruise a cookie every time he makes a movie. "You did pretty good, got pretty lucky, but you still suck."

If thats Rude, please, Moderator, Tell Me. I will edit it, you always delete posts that show any displeasure and i dont feel like having to type the entire thing again. So please, tell me.

Div · Aug 20, 2007, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanchez

First off before i start my suggestion I do have some champ points about half way to r1 so im not the best gvger but for the most part i know my stuff and not just trying to desperately get a champ title.

So how did you get those champ pts? SF, Bspike, or Ritspike? If it's not any of those 3, you should be good enough to be getting more points...

arbiter · Aug 20, 2007, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Well, as far as champ points go, when they were first introduced the rating system was a lot different than it is now. I think the top 300ish guilds had a rating of 1200 or more. Nowadays you need to be at least top 100 closer to top 50 to be in a guild with 1200+ and then once you are the odds of playing another guild with that same rating and winning are low. So for the most part the people who did get the title got it when it was much easier to get last season.

Deep Sea Diving · Aug 21, 2007, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by arbiter

Nowadays you need to be at least top 100 closer to top 50 to be in a guild with 1200+ and then once you are the odds of playing another guild with that same rating and winning are low.

If you would even bother to check the ladder, I think that atleast the r100 guild is in champ point range now, and there is a very good chance that if you play during the Asian, Euro, or American prime times you will come up aginst other champ point range guilds.

As for the "odds of...winning are low," that's kind of tough for anyone really. If they are incapible of beating a guild in the current or future range, then they do not deserve to get a champion point.

I believe I've made my points in this and my previous post. The champion title is not ment to be a grind-able PvP title, it was made so those who actively participate and excel in, at the very least, mid-level GvG, can show their accomplishments.

noname22369 · Aug 21, 2007, 07:36 AM // 07:36

For me, Champion title is for high end GvG player. So there's no need to make it for everybody to have it. You can suggest new title for GvG but leave champion title be like that.