Curse

bilateralrope · Aug 22, 2007, 10:08 AM // 10:08

About a month ago I helped a guildie who had got his character up to Gyala Hatchery but he still hadn't got round to doing the attribute quests for him. I'd also heard of a PUG monk in Gate of Madness who only had an 11-12 split in his attributes, meaning he either had plenty of unspent attributes or was missing an attribute quest. I don't know how wide spread this problem is as a lot of people run at least 3 attribute lines, meaning its not so easy to total up their attributes after a quick glance at their bar if they show it.

So what I'd like is some way for me to be able to tell at a glance if a player has complete both attribute point quests on their current character. If this is implemented then, because the average PUG will refuse to take non-max characters, they will get the points just so they can join PUGs (if they don't join PUGs, then I don't care if they only have 170 attribute points). This will help them by encouraging them to get a stronger character, and help the other PUGs by making them have a stronger character.

So far I have two options, but if you can think of others please post them as I don't really care how its implemented.

- The max level is increased to 22. However you can only earn 20 of those levels from xp, the other two levels are each added when your character completes one of the 15 attribute point quests available for it. If you get the quests done before lvl 20 then either it won't show till you hit level 20 (meaning you could jump straight from level 19 to 22) or it will add to your current level (meaning that while your xp and hp show level 15, your level number could show 17). Either way because heroes earn the extra attribute points as the level, they will appear to be skipping levels.

- A symbol is added to your name bar that changes as you earn attribute points. This would add more clutter to the bar and some confusion until people learn to read it. But not much confusion as it should only have 4 different states, and the one showing all attributes will be very widely spread.

The only thing that worries me about this change is if it causes people to discriminate against Tyrian players without all 200 point between the crystal desert and Iron Mines (the areas between where a non-running Tyrian character hits level 20 and where he gets the attribute points). If this becomes a problem then the symbol can be hidden in the towns where its a problem, while I'm not sure how the level number could be dealt with to prevent this.

MithranArkanere · Aug 22, 2007, 11:56 AM // 11:56

Yes please, once I discovered a friend of mine, who mad his characters in FACTINos had finished the game without the etra 30 points.

Of course, I grabbed him by the ear, and pulled him to make the quests. We made both in less than 20 minutes.

But that was only because y discovered that.

Players at level 20 without the full attibute points should have any kind of distinction, like... hm... a [!] after their names or something.

pamelf · Aug 22, 2007, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Meh, they're not really necessary. Getting the extra attribute quests is never the first thing on my agenda. I have a monk that I have now taken through all 3 campaigns and she hasn't done any of the extra attribute quests. I'll get around to doing it at some point, but I've already got sup and major runes equipped, so it's not exactly a pressing matter.

And quite frankly, it doesn't affect game play in any major way, so I don't see why it should be anyone elses business whether I've done them or not, unless they plan on being elitist and not letting you on teams over a lousy 15 attribute points. Being able to see it would just cause way too many unnecessary problems.

Fitz Rinley · Aug 22, 2007, 09:52 PM // 21:52

I agree that something needs to be done, but it is in information getting. All players I have known who did not have their Attribute quests done, did not know they existed. I have on numerous occasions taken other players thru the Tyrian quests for that purpose.

I dont think changing the level cap is a good idea. That is intrinsic to the game itself. I also don't think the name tag works, for social reasons. However, if it was a primary quest that would appear at a certain point in one's log then it would help.

I have most of my gaming experience in Tyria. I can't tell you how many players I have talked to who were frustrated and looking for more att points, and I helped them get them. Some were Ascended and had fought hard battles to honestly get to the Grotto or Citadel. If I can help a half dozen to a dozen, then certainly others are doing so to. And it was all because they didnt know the quests existed.

The quest to do the Attribute Point Quests could load into log at:

Prophecies: The Forgotten Gatekeeper, in beginning of Dragon's Lair mission.
(Rewarded by Vanyi after The Hero's Challenge:
1,000 g
1 Hunter's Ale)
Factions: Master Togo, when Choosing a second class.
(Rewarded by Zunraa after An Unwelcome Guest:
1,000 g
1 Rice Wine)
Nightfall: 1st Spear Dehvad, when receiving reward for Primary Training.
(Rewarded by Runduk after Rising in the Ranks: First Spear:
1,000 g
1 Vabbian Wine)

Full Metal X · Aug 22, 2007, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Why people take other people instead of heros/hench is beyond me.

What Now · Aug 22, 2007, 10:24 PM // 22:24

At a glance if I don't see two max skills or 12 9 9 I can usually tell someone hasn't done them.

This has not though in any case influenced me to kick them from the team.

I see no problem other than the difficulty of finding these quests, I had to use google and show my friends, so if anything I suggest their incorporated into the story line.

MagmaRed · Aug 22, 2007, 10:42 PM // 22:42

/unsigned

We do not need another reason for people to descriminate. PUGs are by nature, random, and uncertain. When you join one, you don't know if the other people know how to play well, and will help the team, or hurt it. just because someone does/doesn't have their attribuite points does not mean they will/won't help a team.

Consider the following, and tell me which one you would want on your team?

W/Mo #1:
All 200 attribute points, armor from Seitung Harbor, Superior Strength, and no Vigor runes. His skill bar?

[skill]Mending[/skill][skill]Healing Breeze[/skill][skill]Blessed Light[/skill][skill]Frenzy[/skill][skill]Gash[/skill][skill]Healing Signet[/skill][skill]Signet of Devotion[/skill][skill]Sprint[/skill]

W/Mo #2:
170 attribute points, Superior Vigor, Minor Sword, Minor Strength, Minor Tactics, Superior Absorption, and armor from Kaineng Center. His skill bar?

[skill]Sever Artery[/skill][skill]Gash[/skill][skill]Dragon Slash[/skill][skill]Healing Signet[/skill][skill]"Watch Yourself!"[/skill][skill]Mend Ailment[/skill][skill]Tiger Stance[/skill][skill]Resurrection Chant[/skill]

Wammo #1 is the Leeroy kind of player, who thinks his healing will keep him alive. It might, but his sprinting into multiple groups will get the team killed. Wammo #2 does not have his attribute points, but hasa better grasp on team play, and a skill bar to work well with a team.

Under your idea, people will pick #1 just because he has the attribute points. I do think people need to get those quests completed, as the points are very useful. I do not think displaying it for all to see is the answer. If anything, simply make a change in the quest acquisition/continuation.

Div · Aug 22, 2007, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

/unsigned

We do not need another reason for people to descriminate. PUGs are by nature, random, and uncertain. When you join one, you don't know if the other people know how to play well, and will help the team, or hurt it. just because someone does/doesn't have their attribuite points does not mean they will/won't help a team.

Consider the following, and tell me which one you would want on your team?

W/Mo #1:
All 200 attribute points, armor from Seitung Harbor, Superior Strength, and no Vigor runes. His skill bar?

[skill]Mending[/skill][skill]Healing Breeze[/skill][skill]Blessed Light[/skill][skill]Frenzy[/skill][skill]Gash[/skill][skill]Healing Signet[/skill][skill]Signet of Devotion[/skill][skill]Sprint[/skill]

W/Mo #2:
170 attribute points, Superior Vigor, Minor Sword, Minor Strength, Minor Tactics, Superior Absorption, and armor from Kaineng Center. His skill bar?

[skill]Sever Artery[/skill][skill]Gash[/skill][skill]Dragon Slash[/skill][skill]Healing Signet[/skill][skill]"Watch Yourself!"[/skill][skill]Mend Ailment[/skill][skill]Tiger Stance[/skill][skill]Resurrection Chant[/skill]

Wammo #1 is the Leeroy kind of player, who thinks his healing will keep him alive. It might, but his sprinting into multiple groups will get the team killed. Wammo #2 does not have his attribute points, but hasa better grasp on team play, and a skill bar to work well with a team.

Under your idea, people will pick #1 just because he has the attribute points. I do think people need to get those quests completed, as the points are very useful. I do not think displaying it for all to see is the answer. If anything, simply make a change in the quest acquisition/continuation.

QFT.

Whenever you PUG, the first thing you do is make them ping their bars anyways, and you'll be able to tell if the player is any good or has extra attribute point quests. Even when playing with friends, I often ping my bar and have them ping theirs so I know what to expect of them, and that'll be a good time to make sure they have all 200 points.

We don't need another way to discriminate against players. I can say with confidence that a good and experienced player with 170 or 185 attribute points will outperform 95% of your pugs with 200 attribute points, even if they have the same armor/equipment.

MithranArkanere · Aug 23, 2007, 02:40 AM // 02:40

Now that I come to think about it... that how I discovered he didn't made the quests...

He had less than normal attribute points used.

Aethon · Aug 23, 2007, 03:42 AM // 03:42

I wouldn't mind it if they got rid of the "lv20" bit in the name bar when a player gets all 200 att points. After a certain point, having anything else is the exception to the rule, and this would help reduce clutter.

racso · Aug 23, 2007, 04:31 AM // 04:31

I do not agree with that.

genofreek · Aug 23, 2007, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Another way to add elitism to the game? Right on. >_> As noted, most would prefer a slightly weaker character with a strong grasp of how to play with a team to a fully-powered Mending Wammo.

I personally wouldn't kick a player with a small amount of attributes from my team, although if I saw that they were missing some when they pinged their skillbar I'd suggest they go pick up the quests ASAP.

Witchblade · Aug 23, 2007, 11:18 AM // 11:18

my $.02

add a red msg in the attributes window saying that the lvl is maxed out but not the points; This should be enough to make one wonder what's missing

@Holymasamune: Mending first in the bar ^^ just in case

uberspell !

Kool Pajamas · Aug 23, 2007, 08:58 PM // 20:58

/signed

Kinda stupid to not get your extra attributes. They aren't hard to get and you're just weakening yourself.

MithranArkanere · Aug 23, 2007, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Actually, in Magguma is not a Crime. but in Vabbi or the Jade sea it is.
The less points you have, the less effective you are.

Fitz Rinley · Aug 23, 2007, 10:00 PM // 22:00

I am rather fond of the idea that the level designation disappears from your name when you no longer have attribute points or levels to gain.

For those who would be elitist against someone who is still making their character, this would tell me who not to play with. At the moment, I avoid playing with pretty much everyone whom I do not know personally. The exception being that I help people who are asking for help or looking for something in particular. Most of the people I know either work in professions that have a crittical no messing around allowed orientation or have military experience; in both cases they understand what it means to have mission orientation. So, keep in mind that something which reveals the elitist snobs will also assist those of us who are opposed to it in finding and working with those who are not.

But more than this, I like the idea I put forward of simply cueing in the quests at the points I mentioned. Then when a player is trying to clear their log, they will find them. If a player reaches that point and doesn't know about checking their log - well, I am not sure any amount of help will make a difference.